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you accuse people of not reading the OP. I did read the OP but I would genuinely be interested to hear your counter to my 1st post on the thread where I did try to explain my issue with your idea - I wasn't sarcastic or salty but did try to explain why it would not work for me
Possible solution to the great Open PvE vs Open Only debate - a district for both?
look, if you offer a piece of chocolate to me and i decline, stating i don´t like chocolate, would you still try to make me eat it?
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you seem to think that pvp is the only reason people stay in solo.
that is not the case
you have that narrative laid out in your head, but it doesn´t fit the reality.
there are a lot of reasons why some prefer solo.
pvp is only one of them
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Perhaps but my point is tha people who want to cause grief to others always seem to find a way. See metaalloy bombing from a the old days. Blocking would do nothing in that case.
fair comment and indeed is something some of us (not all) didn't like back in the day. yes I would not have wanted hrs of downtime but given the game is built in such a way you are expected to look after your ship... you are not expected to get blown up every 15 mins (detailed in early Dev discussions) I would have been happy with a few minutes of downtime whilst you were rescued ... stil gamified a little . same with loading and unloading and rearming and repairing. I would have been fine with it taking 10 mins to do significant repairs on my ship.... so long as there were missions I could take using a supplied ship ...
but FD chose to essentially ignore that logistical part of the game. there was talk of in future dlc allowing us to get jobs as a loader whilst we waited.
it seems to me because FD chose to gamify 1 part of the game you think they should go back and gamify other bits of it they previously chose not to. I disagree. I live with the bits currently in there because I have no choice. but it does not mean I have to welcome the rest.
it even has a problem with PvP
imagine I am on my way to Hutton in my python. I get attacked by a player and managed to fight them off and blow them up. at this point it's not unreasonable I am significantly damaged. the game as it is now means the bested player would resporn immediately and get to fly out in a brand new ship and have another go. long before I get to arrive and land my damaged ship from the 1st encounter.
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The replies where I said people weren't reading the OP were because some were implying I had suggested doing things like changing Sol or Shinrata to open only when I clearly stated it would be a conversion of a currently uninhabited area. Your original reply seemed focused on stopping gankers in general across the game - I'm not trying to suggest that here. The way I see it is the game can stay the same in the bubble or Colonia... trying to change it in anyway will annoy someone. It's best to leave the core gameplay in the established areas alone.
Despite what some people have said here, there is clearly a demand for chance encounters with players without the threat of hostility (personally I find that rather pointless and bland, but each to their own). There is a difference between players who hate multiplayer and would always play in solo regardless, and those who only play in solo because they fear a quick death at the hands of another player (and obviously the potential for taunting or other trolly behaviour). This suggestion is only meant to provide a solution to the latter, not the former (because there is no problem to be solved for players who love solo - if they enjoy solo so much, why would they have a strong opinion about the goings on in the open play mode?).
Solo players have always enjoyed the clear advantage of never having to deal with player opposition (making doing anything in the game far easier ) - that is the bonus they have always had since the beginning. You could argue that was unfair on players who enjoy player interaction in open (it definitely is an advantage when it comes to the BGS group playstyle - flipping systems etc).
It would be no different from a game like The Division which had the dark zone (PvP area with higher level loot) - it worked there, nobody was forced to go into the zone. This is called risk vs reward gameplay and its not an unusual or new concept. Besides, with this suggestion they could always venture into the consensual PvP only zone to grab some bonuses if they could stomach seeing another player ship.
so long as FD keep PGs you are right. like I said me personally I could not really care less what happens in open..... but suggestions like yours (and maybe you are the exception) usually follow up with .... and then there is no need for PGs!.
btw because FD never implemented the NPC wingmates which were in the design stage you could argue that in some ways solo can be harder as you don't get help. also no wing bonuses in solo play
btw because FD never implemented the NPC wingmates which were in the design stage you could argue that in some ways solo can be harder as you don't get help. also no wing bonuses in solo play
No, like I said it's best to leave everything that is established in place otherwise you'd get a big drama blow up. Setting a new area up in currently unused territory is the fairest way to go about it.
and everyone have the same choice to play in solo when it suits them. and that player oppositions that always crop up, is mostly a fantasy. as the game currently is PLENTY divided....
And we already know about how most players feel about the Dark zone in Division.. they hate it. the only ones who like it, are the ones who can prey on other players... For everyone else, who desire PvE gameplay, the dark zone is terrible. and the story is the same in just about any other MMO games out there.
Seems like really all the PvP players want a mode where they can do what they want in an unrestricted way. Then you have some players who want to set their own rules on top of that, so need a mode where they can control who can play in it. Finally, you have players who are quite happy with a single player style environment. Maybe with everything else going on its easier to have that sort of system in place with modes to suit each of those groups. Just make it so everyone can talk to each other if you're in the same system and you're done.
and here is the gist. some players will never accept this, as will keep on requesting/demanding that those who do not like to play with them on their terms, must be "encouraged" or rather forced to play with them... and what makes this even worse, is that this group of player is a minority group. It hard to put number on how large this player group actually is, as most MMO games in one way or another forces players to engage in this minority player group desired activities. but it is a farily good guess that this group is only around 10-20% of the total player base...
We know that FDev have also been very secretly about how large this group actually is, but we know that open is the most popular game mode, and that the majority of players in open is not engaging in PvP, ie shooting at other players. I cannot find the exact quote now.
Now, compare this with the other players. who do not want the PvP centric game play, most if not all of those players, are not against that PvP exists, as long as they do not have to participate in it! Which is the core issue, as there are not enough PvP players to sustain their preferred gameplay, so that is why they need to keep on making these threads to increase the player population for their preferred activity.
We can see this exact problem in the addon for Elite, CQC, this all about PvP, no NPC's, no grinding for material or unlocking engineering etc, etc, pure PvP, and you unlock stuff more stuff as you play, and here skill is more important than what gear you have access too. For the most part, CQC is dead, it is hard to get matches and when you get on, quite often it is an unbalanced match as there are simply not enough players to get a proper matchmaking going. And there is very little evidence to support any notion, that turning Elite Dangerous into a full out PvP experience would turn out any different.
And this is something we have already see in other games. for example Amazon's New World and Bethesda's Fallout 76.
its funny you should mention CQC... i really dislike the whole notion of PvP in elite dangerous for reasons i have already said (disposible billion credit ships with unlimited insurance is silly)
but honestly for me CQC is an incredible PvP game..... right up there with star wars squadrons for me.. i like it bECAUSE its fully disposible ships and there is zero worry about destruction (all the stuff i dont want in the main game) but equally it looks great and plays really well.
i dearly wish FD had stuck with it, maybe bringing out a new map every dlc (am no programmer so may be talking out of my hat but would it really be so hard to throw together a new map every 3 months or so? back in the day fans of games like doom did it all the time!) as well as some ground based SRV maps.
but honestly for me CQC is an incredible PvP game..... right up there with star wars squadrons for me.. i like it bECAUSE its fully disposible ships and there is zero worry about destruction (all the stuff i dont want in the main game) but equally it looks great and plays really well.
i dearly wish FD had stuck with it, maybe bringing out a new map every dlc (am no programmer so may be talking out of my hat but would it really be so hard to throw together a new map every 3 months or so? back in the day fans of games like doom did it all the time!) as well as some ground based SRV maps.
Exactly, it was built to be a PvP game, from the start, and when you get a match going and you get a good matchmaking, it is quite fun, and as you said, you do not really have anything to loose.
And for various reasons it lost in popularity and and FDev did not really develop new stuff for it, so became the current mostly desolate option it is today. Think about if they tested new combat SRV in CQC,, and added the onfoot combat first to CQC... instant combat. get in, blow stuff up and get blown up and repeat.
Actually this is what I expected them to have done with the onfoot combat missions... run these as CQC matches. instant action, walk to elevator, fade to black, and then drop from the "dropship"... in the name of game fun, based on how they implemented mutlicrew.
When Frontline Solutions was initially revealed, I thought that would be a tool for PvP instancing. You'd just pick a superpower/government type and then the game would match you and teleport to a CZ with other players based on that criteria. A more organic version of CQC since you'd be able to impact BGS this way.
I don't think any kind of open-only restriction on the normal game space would work, the three-mode design equality is an integral part of the game.
I don't think any kind of open-only restriction on the normal game space would work, the three-mode design equality is an integral part of the game.
Stay like is now... Player free choice is better! We don't want more players abandon the game!So yeah, I hear the collective groans of everyone reading the thread title - "the horse is dead, leave it alone". I know, I've been around this game long enough to know that this debate has been raging since the Alpha days, with FDEV maintaining their frustratingly fence-sitting stance on the matter. However I think I may have a potential compromise that could keep everyone happy and enable all of us see what an open-only version of the game would potentially look like. And also, before you PvE maxis start sharpening your pitch-forks, hear me out as I've got you covered too.
So we have three different interest groups here that we need to account for:
- Those who want to play in open, but don't want to deal with hostile players
- Those who want all players to play in open so they can't use modes to evade player opposition (thus generating emergent gameplay)
- Those who wish the game to remain as it is
Quite hard to keep everyone happy there right? Not impossible though... There is only one real solution, and it has a precedent - we have the newbie or Pilots Federation district. An area where special rules apply, you cannot return to once you have passed a certain point in your progression and you cannot in engage in PvP within the district without getting removed. Therefor it is not outside of the scope of the game lore to have special zones with special rules. This could help us solve the Open PvE vs PvP issue with the following:A Two-Sided Open-Only District of Systems
This would be a special zone of somewhere between 20 and 50 systems that would be split half and half between ones that have consensual PvP rules and ones with normal PvP rules. Say for example we had 50 star systems in the district - 25 of these would have the PvP restrictions, and the other 25 would allow PvP like would be normal anywhere. This split of the district would be like two halves of a sphere to make it easy to navigate around and see the extents of the zones.
The rules and traits of the open only district would be as follows:
The Consensual PvP Systems (50%)
Incentives
- All systems in the district would only be accessible in open play via a navigation permit that only appears while in open (greying out the solo and private group login options on the main menu if the players location was within the district when they logged out last).
- All weapons fire from one player on another would be treated as 'Smart Rounds' unless the player getting attacked returns fire, then both parties weapons reset to normal
- All experimental weapon effects are disabled against players within consensual PvP systems unless they return fire
- Players would not be able to interdict or wake drop on other players in supercruise within a consensual PvP system (wake, manifest or kill-warrant scanners would be usable however)
- Hatch-breakers cannot be used on other players within these systems
- Ramming-damage is disabled unless weapons fire is exchanged
These systems could offer incentives within the following areas:
- Higher mission rewards (credits and materials)
- Lower commodity purchase prices
- A large selection of exotic rare commodities (with high supply caps)
- Material traders offer all materials from one vendor (data, raw and manufactured cross-swaps available)
- Better mining yields from asteroids
- Remote engineering allows module-based experimental effects to be applied
- Bounty, Combat bond and exploration data rewards are 50% higher than normal
The Unrestricted PvP Systems (50%)
Incentives
- Again, these systems are only accessible in open play (same as above)
- Weapons fire is all normal rules
- Interdictors, ramming and other features such as hatch-breakers all work as normal
- Although PvP rules are normal within these systems, they would still have varying security levels
- Blocking does not affect instancing within these systems (it would defeat the purpose of the district)
These systems could offer incentives within the following areas:
- Higher commodity sell prices across the board (especially rares)
- Higher grade material drops from signal sources, mining and combat (grade 4 or 5 only)
- Material traders offer better swap rates
- Interstellar factors are cheaper
- Remote engineering allows weapons-based experimental effects to be applied
- Bounty, Combat bond and exploration data rewards are 100% higher than normal
- The logout timer would be increased to 30 seconds, and all players in an interdiction instance would be notified if a player has activated a logout timer
What about neutral players?
So the proposed change would not negatively impact anyone who enjoys the current game setup, this district would have to be created out of an uninhabited area of space close to the bubble (much like how the pilots federation district was created). This would prevent changes happening with the BGS or Powerplay to groups already engaged in these playstyles.
I must be getting soft suggesting a consensual PvP zone... but this is the only way I see this debate ever being settled in a fair way. And a change like this may give the game the shot in the arm it desperately needs after such a bad year PR-wise.
Doing nothing is always an option too for FDEV, but I fear the game will continue to haemorrhage players this way..
Pvp players have Shinrarta System...
