Powerplay 2.0 deep dive - Frontier Live 27th March

[Darth Ender]

In the end its a closed system, and it has to behave as such.

it isn't supposed to be. and it being a closed system limited to these provided powers is the fundamental problem with it.

it serves no purpose. almost if not all of the game play around it relies on external forums and players fighting over blobs on a map with zero purpose to anything related to the mechanic beyond that. the blob map and voting aspect is basically the only thing that sets pp apart from regular bgs manipulation game play.

if that's the goal, then fdev could save a lot of effort and just focus on those two things and ditch everything else. because absolute zero people in the last 8 years have ever said that they can't wait to fortify a system (the same systems they fortified last week and the previous 300 weeks) or transport pp stuff from one system to other.. it's repeating already existing game loops that doesn't add value to the experience because the whole mechanic doesn't add value to the game if what you do is erased as soon as you stop doing it.

 

[Rubbernuke]

it isn't supposed to be. and it being a closed system limited to these provided powers is the fundamental problem with it.

it serves no purpose. almost if not all of the game play around it relies on external forums and players fighting over blobs on a map with zero purpose to anything related to the mechanic beyond that. the blob map and voting aspect is basically the only thing that sets pp apart from regular bgs manipulation game play.

if that's the goal, then fdev could save a lot of effort and just focus on those two things and ditch everything else. because absolute zero people in the last 8 years have ever said that they can't wait to fortify a system (the same systems they fortified last week and the previous 300 weeks) or transport pp stuff from one system to other.. it's repeating already existing game loops that doesn't add value to the experience because the whole mechanic doesn't add value to the game if what you do is erased as soon as you stop doing it.

It is a closed system because the ultimate conclusion otherwise is that you have a single power standing requiring a reset, or that you have a single stable bloc of harmonised powers (say ZYADA or FUC). FD were unwilling to invest more time in creating more powers so this 'is it', unless you want proc gen green skinned blue haired punk anarchists wearing Dame Edna glasses.

PP lacks a goal, which can just as easily be #1 linked to the leaderboard. Being #1 should give you the prizes (or scale those prizes based on position) to enrich the rest of the game for you.

 

[SergMx]

Which makes playing the powers needlessly difficult for those who don't want to join Discord (with all the privacy problems it has) or want to play a "lone wolf agent" taking orders directly from the in-game power contact instead of some middleman/being a grunt in a big group.

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand YOU. I don't like Discord, when I'm in PP I have no problem knowing where to take what papers and who to kill. Even when jumping it shows me where the enemy system is.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand YOU. I don't like Discord, when I'm in PP I have no problem knowing where to take what papers and who to kill. Even when jumping it shows me where the enemy system is.

The issue with V1 Powerplay is that although you have many choices, only a few (sometimes one) choice is 'the best', and that its very easy to mess up everything permanently if people are not organised.

 

[Shurimal]

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand YOU. I don't like Discord, when I'm in PP I have no problem knowing where to take what papers and who to kill. Even when jumping it shows me where the enemy system is.

Superficially, yes, you can jump into any rivaling power system to shoot their ships and earn merits, or haul trinkets to a system that needs fortifying or to prep expansion into a system you think would be cool to have.

But the problem is, the big powerplay groups might have decided that this rivaling power is actually to be left alone (or even an ally), that system is not to be fortified and no further expansions are to be prepped. You have no idea about any of this if you aren't on Discord, forums or subreddits and even if you are you might personally have a different opinion (eg you join up with LYR to roleplay as a ruthless company man who wants to, at all cost, take out those "commie hippies" formally known as Utopia). But doing your own dissenting roleplay under current system may end up ruffling some feathers or even harm your own faction since bad expansions and consideration of CC are a thing...

 

[SergMx]

Superficially, yes, you can jump into any rivaling power system to shoot their ships and earn merits, or haul trinkets to a system that needs fortifying or to prep expansion into a system you think would be cool to have.

But the problem is, the big powerplay groups might have decided that this rivaling power is actually to be left alone (or even an ally), that system is not to be fortified and no further expansions are to be prepped. You have no idea about any of this if you aren't on Discord, forums or subreddits and even if you are you might personally have a different opinion (eg you join up with LYR to roleplay as a ruthless company man who wants to, at all cost, take out those "commie hippies" formally known as Utopia). But doing your own dissenting roleplay under current system may end up ruffling some feathers or even harm your own faction since bad expansions and consideration of CC are a thing...

Wait, the table in the game contains false information ? I don't get it. Maybe it's just a bug ?
I don't know what big groups you're talking about. Power larger than only the Imp, Federation, etc.

 

[Shurimal]

Wait, the table in the game contains false information ? I don't get it. Maybe it's just a bug ?
I don't know what big groups you're talking about. Power larger than only the Imp, Federation, etc.

The information in game is not false per se, but there's a lot of meta-gaming going on outside the game by big powerplay-specific player groups.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Current Powerplay is a mathematical game, and sadly to say a very poorly designed one. Basically it's a system that makes impossible to lose low income systems, and conquering a low income system will make far more difficult to keep the best ones, even fortifying your best systems. It's absurd and I understand that but every single action done for your Power can damage it if done without direction, and even doing action AGAINST your enemies could favour them, all these things make current Powerplay a game impossible to play "well" if you are not part of one of the communities behind the different Powers.

Which is bad, really bad, and one of the (many) things that should be no more in PP2.

 

[Cosmo]

The information in game is not false per se, but there's a lot of meta-gaming going on outside the game by big powerplay-specific player groups.

Yeah, roleplaying with player groups makes PP more interesting too.

Again, Field Work. No executive planning, no executive power. He's about a Colonel (highest level grunt)

Star Wars is different than our universe. According to Cambridge dictionary a "grunt" is a soldier of low rank. In Star Wars, generals were often among soldiers. Anakin Skywalker was also a general and fought alongside clone troopers in the Republican Army. Han's authority and access to secret plans of the Rebels was far above a grunt. Han earned the rank general through experience, competence and loyalty to the Rebels. He had full access to general-level strategy, tactics and briefings that were used to counter the Empire. I've explained it enough now.

 

[Rat Catcher]

What part of PP is Star Wars movies?

 

[SergMx]

The information in game is not false per se, but there's a lot of meta-gaming going on outside the game by big powerplay-specific player groups.

I've been in ED long enough, I've seen a lot of communities that were organized in the game, then people grew up and quit playing, broke up for many reasons. I don't stop them from playing as they want, but I don't think they have the right to tell me how to play.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

I've been in ED long enough, I've seen a lot of communities that were organized in the game, then people grew up and quit playing, broke up for many reasons. I don't stop them from playing as they want, but I don't think they have the right to tell me how to play.

That is true, philosophically speaking.
But if we are talking about "effects on the game" as I wrote before current Powerplay has a big design flaw which makes you capable of hurting your Power by playing in favour of your Power and favouring the others playing against them. I ask you just to trust me with that without explaining all the mathematical reasons behind that, and it's not your problem of course, it's a GAME DESIGN problem which some people ask to fix since forever. As I said many times before, Powerplay should be designed for CASUAL players too because not everybody wanna play in some big communities. In current Powerplay it is a necessity to make your Power survive. Which is a big problem.

 

[SergMx]

In current Powerplay it is a necessity to make your Power survive. Which is a big problem.

Why is that? The PP design is made so that none of the powers can go missing even if no one plays for it. And it can't grow beyond certain limits either.

 

[Jmanis]

As I said many times before, Powerplay should be designed for CASUAL players too because not everybody wanna play in some big communities. In current Powerplay it is a necessity to make your Power survive. Which is a big problem.

especially if the goal of powerplay 2 is to make it more accessible.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

As I said it's all a matter of maths. How the turmoil system works and which system will go turmoil first. A big problem in current Powerplay is the so called 5C, basically players hostile to a Power that pledge for that Power with the only purpose to damage it by pushing unfavourable expansions making the Power itself much more fragile and making them losing systems. When I became the leader of the Kumo Crew we had the aftermaths of years of 5C against us and it was really difficult to make our situation easier. And it's not just only us, basically all the Powers had to live with that problem. I could explain the math, but it would take me lots and lots of messages.

 

[Jmanis]

This is what I've talked about in the past, but by using the POI system (which could be linked to the new V2 state / stage system). You could really have some fun designing encounters that link to your effort / rank etc. Imagine an G5 NPC ace wing that needs taking down, or a nemesis like NPC when you kill too many rival ships?

this is where i thought the scenario system was going. But like so many things in the game, FD seemed to expend big effort to put that in, only to create some tokenistic scenarios, and then do nothing else with it.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

this is where i thought the scenario system was going. But like so many things in the game, FD seemed to expend big effort to put that in, only to create some tokenistic scenarios, and then do nothing else with it.

Scenarios should have been implemented in missions.
I think it's not too late for that to be honest.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Absolute destruction is frankly pointless in ED though, and dare I say its not that sort of game (or set up that way)- the goal should be supremacy and being #1 at the expense of all others. Being pushed to your capital pretty much is collapse- the trick is making the loss scale and give the supporters a chance at sweet revenge.

If lose conditions are not part of it, then its also pointless. Basically everyone gets participation awards for grinding away each week with no real impact of the game in the long term.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

If lose conditions are not part of it, then its also pointless. Basically everyone gets participation awards for grinding away each week with no real impact of the game in the long term.

Destruction may be "problematic" lore-wise for FDev too. Imagine a scenario where a coalition of players decide to destroy the Empire (for example) just for the fun of it. Creative control should stay firmly in the hands of the developer. I expect for example that control over systems will be easier for closer systems and increasingly more difficult for far away systems (something similar to what happens with triggers now). It would make sense and would give purpose for players to keep the more periferic systems in control by playing there the most.

 

[Rubbernuke]

this is where i thought the scenario system was going. But like so many things in the game, FD seemed to expend big effort to put that in, only to create some tokenistic scenarios, and then do nothing else with it.

Or that they start out well (like the pirate swarm) and then make them bland.