Powerplay merits - help record complete data!

[marx]

Pardon for asking, but when you checked exobiology for ALD did you note your merits before and after the hand-in, from the Powerplay UI (I mean the UI that appears on the right hand panel when in the ship, though you can also access it via the on-foot menu wheel thing).

Yep, I did, that was standard procedure for me - especially once I saw how the merit gain messages are, and aren't, displayed. It's also how I noticed that for UC sales, the game sometimes either doesn't display merits gained, or displays the same merit gain twice.

Also, I made sure that I'd collect and sell samples after the earlier cut-off date. No dice. Despite selling billions in credits, and making sure that I'd get high-paying stuff too (like TWAs), so far, zero merits from exobio... for me. Searching the ALD Discord again turned up two examples where three players mentioned they sold exobio and got no merits. They wrote these after the infamous date, but I don't know when they collected the samples. So, it's not much evidence, but it does back up my personal experience.

I wouldn't be surprised if this were either a bug or by (faulty) design. After all, Frontier doesn't seem to have considered much about exploration and exobiology in PP 2.0, other than "oh we should throw that in too I guess".

 

[Nowski]

so far, zero merits from exobio... for me. Searching the ALD Discord again turned up two examples where three players mentioned they sold exobio and got no merits.

Ok, so as promised I scooted out to collect a small amount of exobiology data and results were as follows (again, handed in and recorded per-system and all first-to-log)


credits | merits
----------|---------
38873500 | 0
103208500 | 240
103503000 | 240

For test purposes the middle amount (103208500) was collected while unpledged. I then pledged to ALD, sampled the other 2 entries, hopped back to the bubble, did my initial 5 assignments and handed in at Vista Genomics at Wallis Installation, HIP 25795, an ALD exploited system.

I have video evidence! ;-D

ETA: The zero merit case, disappointingly, was for a nice isolated Bacterium Volu - Red. Interestingly the amount is more than the lowest amount I received merits for in my previous effort (38873500: 0 merits vs 38084500: 120 merits). At any rate the threshold appears to be around 40m, modulo factors which aren't clear to me right now.

Further ETA: control points in the system were 0 at the time of handing in, and leapt to 73 afterwards - though I may have skewed this by scanning a ship or two (at 20 merits a pop) on the way to the port.

 

[Celegast]

[THEORY for UC merits - please confirm independently]

Based on the data from my most recent exploration trip, the formula for UC merits is:
INT(system_value / 666,666.666) * 120

In other words: 120 merits per full ~667 kCr of system value

More accurately, without periodics:
INT(system_value * 3 / 2,000,000) * 120

UC Merits	System Value Threshold (rounded to full Cr)
0
120	666,667
240	1,333,334
360	2,000,000
480	2,666,667
600	3,333,334
720	4,000,000
...	...

Note: I'm pledged to Pranav Antal, so the formula might be different for other powers.

 

[Celegast]

[THEORY for VG merits - please confirm independently]

Analogous to my theory about cartographic data, the formula for VG merits is:
INT(system_value / 6,666,666.666) * 120

In other words: 120 merits per full ~6.667 MCr of system value

More accurately, without periodics:
INT(system_value * 3 / 20,000,000) * 120

With system_value = the Cr value shown in the dialog (including PP-Bonus!)

This means: A system with Stratum Tectonicas (19.010.800 Cr) will net you 240 merits, but with e.g. a +10% bonus of Pranav Antal (=19M*1.1=20.9M) will give you 360 merits.

VG Merits	System Value Threshold (rounded to full Cr)
0
120	6,666,667
240	13,333,334
360	20,000,000
480	26,666,667
600	33,333,334
720	40,000,000
...	...

Note: I'm pledged to Pranav Antal, so the formula might be different for other powers.

 

[marx]

@Nowski : interesting, thanks! I'll have to try it again, likely next week. Maybe it's a personal thing, maybe it was something they fixed under the hood.

@Celegast : those don't match my earlier data. Well, besides VG not giving me any merits, that is, even for a body worth 500 million Cr. For UC data, I had systems which were worth the following amounts as per your values, and gave me no merits: 705k, 743k, 869k, 1,128k (!). The difference with those was that there were no single bodies which paid out more than 700k, the total value all came from lower-value bodies.
As a counter-example, I did get 120 merits from a system worth less than the latter two, it was Phroea Flyuae AL-F d11-342 - a neutron star and a HMCPTC. Meanwhile, the 1,128k payout was from Phraa Pruae CP-A d2663, which had an Ammonia World that I didn't map, as it was 396k ls away.

Oh, and I had a 1,499k system pay out 240 merits, while a 1,861k one did 120 merits, and a 2,172k paid 360 merits, while a 2,124k paid 240 merits. You can see these on the sheet, by the way - I rearranged them just now to be in order.

However, these were back on Nov. 26, and I can't rule out that Frontier didn't change things since then. It would be a pleasant surprise if they did, actually.

 

[Nowski]

Another small data point: I scanned a few bios in the bubble testing Cobra V for exobiology (I think it's great!) and handed them in at a couple of Antal exploited systems. All samples were not first logged,

The only hand-in to move the merits needle was a single system for 52045300.

Other amounts, all earning 0 merits, were single systems: 14580700, 12489100, 20959800 and a 2 system hand-in of 25472100 (12910600 + 12561500)

If I do any more already logged bios I'll try and test handing in a full page instead.

 

[marx]

Time for an update on this, with some interesting insights. First off, I sold exobio at the same place that @Nowski mentioned above (HIP 25795, Wallis Installation), and I did get merits this time, with no message displayed though. (I just checked my merits before and after.) A friend of mine sold more than I did at an orbital station elsewhere, and he didn't. So it definitely sounds like there's a bug there.

@Celegast : for ALD, selling a single Tubus Compagibus at 7,774,700 Cr didn't award me merits, so that's different from your Antal values. Selling a system base valued 132,243,300 Cr got me 1,080 merits. Unfortunately, these two systems are all the data points I have, as I lost all my earlier samples to a ground wing mishap. (Which was my fault, mind.)


Moving on to the UC data. Things got somewhat weird there. What I got this time was I'd get merits if there was a body that was worth at least 680,000 Cr, and even the main star counted there. The main star gets its value from the other bodies in the system too, see Matt G's exploration value formulae thread on this. The best example here was that I scanned an already-discovered Water World, Blau Thua XL-B d14-0 B 5, for 243,542 Cr, and the main star had 758,695 Cr, and I got 120 merits for this one. Meanwhile, my current record for "no merits, and no body met the threshold" is 1,380,870 Cr, from Blau Thua HN-G c25-0.
This main star value alone can trigger the merit gain for very valuable systems.

However, it appears that once there is a body that met the threshold, then it's just the system value that's used for the merit calculation. So the calculation would look to be:
1. If there is no single body paying out more than ~680-700k Cr (lowest I've had trigger so far was 680,570 Cr), then zero merits.
2. Otherwise, use the system value to calculate 120 merit packets.

So, in practical terms, these would mean that you get merits for systems where you mapped at least one somewhat-valuable body, or that are valuable enough that the main star's added value would trigger it.

 

[Ebel]

sample sales to UC sold in LHS 200
crookaae tr-u c16-1 value 292257 merits 0
crookaae tr-u c16-11 value 14572326 merits 2520 WWx2 HMCx2
crookaae rr-u c16-15 value 3912324 merits 600 HMCx1
crookaae kq-p d5-244 value 4133289 merits 720 HMCx1
all turned in 1 at a time.

 

[Ebel]

VG turn in same location
crookaae AL-F B25-3 1 bacterium 1949000 (payout 9745000) no merits
crookaae UH-Z B41-4 bacterium 5289900 (payout 26449500) no merits.

All about 13kly out, first discovery, first footfall.

Back to the black with the rest of my data until fdev fixes this mess.

 

[Babaa Yaga]

I just recently started PP2.0 (I'm pledged to Antal / did all of the loyalty missions) and I've returned to Polevnic (Tanner Settlement) after a short run out, about 10Kly, and I go to sell my Carto-data (Earth-like, Ammonia, Water Worlds, terraformable, etc. and Bio-data. I got first footfall, first discovery, etc. I got absolutely jack squat for merits. Not a single one. I started with 15294 merits and that is were it is after selling everything. Am I missing something here. According to the "playbook", I need to sell my data in a "Reinforcement System" - defined as a stronghold, fortified or exploited system. Well, Polevnic is a stronghold system for Antal. So, what gives? What did I do wrong?

 

[marx]

I just recently started PP2.0 (I'm pledged to Antal / did all of the loyalty missions) and I've returned to Polevnic (Tanner Settlement) after a short run out, about 10Kly, and I go to sell my Carto-data (Earth-like, Ammonia, Water Worlds, terraformable, etc. and Bio-data. I got first footfall, first discovery, etc. I got absolutely jack squat for merits. Not a single one. I started with 15294 merits and that is were it is after selling everything. Am I missing something here. According to the "playbook", I need to sell my data in a "Reinforcement System" - defined as a stronghold, fortified or exploited system. Well, Polevnic is a stronghold system for Antal. So, what gives? What did I do wrong?

There are two possibilities:
1. You ran into a bug, and a pretty bad one at that. Maybe Antal's HQ doesn't count?
2. You somehow never got a body that was valuable enough to give you merits, which I strongly doubt. But it is theoretically possible. Did you DSS any of those valuable planets that you found?

 

[Babaa Yaga]

There are two possibilities:
1. You ran into a bug, and a pretty bad one at that. Maybe Antal's HQ doesn't count?
2. You somehow never got a body that was valuable enough to give you merits, which I strongly doubt. But it is theoretically possible. Did you DSS any of those valuable planets that you found?

I sure did...I had a couple of Earth-like, Ammonia, Water Worlds terraformable in the mix. FDEV REALLY needs to put out a fix/patch or something to fix this. I'm more into exploration and this is a HUGE turn off for PP2.0.

 

[Nowski]

I've returned to Polevnic (Tanner Settlement) after a short run out, about 10Kly, and I go to sell my Carto-data (Earth-like, Ammonia, Water Worlds, terraformable, etc. and Bio-data. I got first footfall, first discovery, etc. I got absolutely jack squat for merits. Not a single one.

Polevnic is the Antal HQ, right? You can't earn merits in the Power's HQ system, full stop. This is because it is invulnerable and therefore impossible to reinforce I guess.

If it's any consolation, I made exactly the same mistake on my first foray into Powerplay 2.0

 

[Babaa Yaga]

Polevnic is the Antal HQ, right? You can't earn merits in the Power's HQ system, full stop. This is because it is invulnerable and therefore impossible to reinforce I guess.

If it's any consolation, I made exactly the same mistake on my first foray into Powerplay 2.0

Thanks...that would have been some really useful info to have, IN THE PLAYBOOK. I guess FDEV didn't think that far ahead to publish that tiny bit of info.

 

[Nowski]

crookaae UH-Z B41-4 bacterium 5289900 (payout 26449500) no merits.

From my data further up the thread, it's looking like the threshold for exobiology merits is somewhere near 40M credits. As noted above I had one turn in for 38873500 that didn't earn any. I was recording carefully. My two other turn-ins of around 100M only earned 240 merits a piece.

In terms of exploration merits, cartographic data is going to earn much more merits per time invested I think.

that would have been some really useful info to have, IN THE PLAYBOOK

Yeah, the Pilots handbook has ... deficiencies:

Spoiler: you can't hand in exobiology data at a Power Contact.

The nearest it comes is what you can infer from seeing "cannot be reinforced" on the Galactic Map info panel:

 

[Babaa Yaga]

And here we go again...PP2.0 + Exobiology = NO MERITS
Tried this for a third time. 27 samples (including First Footfall) = 1.6 billion credits
Pledge to Pranav Antal and docked at Bentham Terminal in HIP 2725 ( Reinforcement / Fortified)
Sold Carto-data (Approx. 200 systems) and received merits ( Awarded 8060 Merits - Promoted from Lvl 7 to 11)
Conclusion: Exobiology for Merits defies the laws of physics by sucking and blowing at the same time. I didn't realize I needed a degree in theoretical physics to figure out how this is supposed to work. I don't get a lot of time to play ED anymore and exploring for a month at a time with little to no Power Play

merit awards is a complete waste of time, effort and resources. Still, the credit payout is nice but trying to level up by doing exobiology is painfully slow.

 

[Nowski]

Exobiology = NO MERITS
Tried this for a third time. 27 samples (including First Footfall) = 1.6 billion credits

That is surprising. As noted above, I've received merits for all hand-ins over around 38M per system..

You're probably aware that the usual merit notifications don't work for exobiology so to see any merit awards you have to check your merit numbers via the powerplay interface before and after handing in?

In any case exobiology merits are way low compared to carto merits (which are not fantastic either) - the exobiology amounts shown probably would have netted not much more than 1000 merits total if it had been in line with my experiences doing this.

 

[marx]

A really quick test showed that for UC sales, there's no minimum threshold anymore, it appears that the only thing that counts is the credit payout you got, and it's still calculated per system. Will need more data though to determine how merit gain is calculated, and I haven't touched exobio samples yet either.

 

[Groman]

I was wondering about exobio and merits and tried my luck.
I am pledged to Kaine and made 11,737 merits by selling at a Kaine fortified system (it said -35% merits).
I sold for 1.7 B exobio approximately.

 

[marx]

Oh yeah, since then, I did a shorter trip with exobio sales: selling each system separately, they were all 128,278 Cr = 1 merit. Pledged to ALD, -35% because of reinforcing - but as far as I know, no powers can undermine with UC/VG data, no?

Merits from UC appear a bit more complicated, since there's rounding going on and all, but it's basically roughly (not exactly!) 10,000 Cr = 1 merit, except I couldn't actually get 1 merit specifically, could only trigger them above 25,000 Cr, which was 2 merits. The higher the system's credit value, the more that rough 10,000 Cr value goes lower.

So on one hand, you get fewer merits for the same value, but on the other hand, there is practically no minimum threshold anymore (whereas you basically had to DSS to get any merits) - so it was an overall buff.