PP 2.0 has sent BGS into crisis

Player Squadrons who work the BGS can't keep up with the INF from PP 2.0 missions being thrown at systems causing expansions everywhere. BGS Squadrons work days and weeks to make sure they don't unintentionally expand where they don't want to go. With PP 2.0 it's extremely difficult if not impossible to stem the INF causing the System Owners to go into expansion. BGS is now out of control.

Real forward thinking FDev...
 
There's not a lot that Powerplay does that has a BGS effect at all [1] that isn't just a normal "passing traffic" action - people trade, they bounty hunt, they do donation missions, they rob a few Odyssey settlements ... that's all things that players were doing every day before the update: there's just significantly more players active in the game now, and they're perhaps doing those things in different systems and a different balance of activities to the ones they were before.

Sure, other players in "your" systems can be inconvenient for you but I doubt Frontier are going to view "more people playing the game" as a problem for them to solve, or one where there's much in the way of BGS balancing which could be done about it anyway that wouldn't also make it much harder for you to intentionally move your systems.

[1] A lot of Powerplay activities like scanning ships, moving Power cargo, killing Power ships, holoscreen hacks, etc. probably have no BGS effect at all or a fairly minimal one, of course.
 
There is more stirring in the pot, I like that. Definitely much more traffic, much more action. I finally see some movement in sectors there were like dead, now we have a power carrier with hi tech goods and there is movement in the business.

@Ian Doncaster
Where to claim bounties now? At powers handler or minor faction handler? Does claiming bounties at power handler also give influence to minor power system owner, has anyone figured that out yet?
 
When FDev described the changes coming, with PP integrating with the BGS, I could see the doom for all the Player Factions trying to maintain control as previously. The BGS will continue to produce missions and manage the effects and pressures on the minor factions, but it is sure that PP will be the driving force in the future.
 
Sure, other players in "your" systems can be inconvenient for you but I doubt Frontier are going to view "more people playing the game" as a problem for them to solve, or one where there's much in the way of BGS balancing which could be done about it anyway that wouldn't also make it much harder for you to intentionally move your systems.
I never said it was something FDev needed to solve. I just said PP 2.0 screwed up BGS. And it's not just "my" systems. Other squadrons are expanding into their neighbors and it's causing all kinds of problems for everyone doing BGS. I don't see a solution. Maybe if they disconnected PP missions from system INF that might have helped. I don't know, because I quit PP 2.0 after 2 days. Waste of my time and I see others quitting because they really don't want to play PP for a year to get their goodies. That's a separate issue.

@Ian looks like you're not in a squadron and don't do BGS so you're not affected. So you wouldn't care anyways... and probably don't know what affects BGS.
 
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. I just said PP 2.0 screwed up BGS. And it's not just "my" systems. Other squadrons are expanding into their neighbors and it's causing all kinds of problems for everyone doing BGS.
Obvoiusly i haven't personally spoken to the 'FDevs' myself ( who does? ) but i'm going to take a wild guess that most of these "problems" probably aren't exactly working-as-intended YET , or at least seemingly we're in some sort of beta-phase pre-prep analysis for upcoming new 'Colonization' feature....and all galactic implications therein.

Of course, officially all we have to go on ( so far ) is this---> https://www.elitedangerous.com/news/powerplay-20-qa
re: "Whilst the BGS doesn’t directly interact with PP 2.0, your actions when engaging with the BGS will of course have an impact as they’re impacting your pledged Power, so those BGS players can enjoy making contributions with their activities. "
...as well as: "while Powerplay activities can influence the BGS, players interested in faction gameplay and BGS manipulation won’t feel any targeted changes in their gameplay due to Powerplay. "
@Ian looks like you're not in a squadron and don't do BGS so you're not affected.
FYI, you at-tagged the wrong "Ian" there ^ lol ...
So you wouldn't care anyways...
... And if you check the actual correct @Ian Doncaster 's post-history, you would realize he ( along with @Factabulous , @Ashnak , @Frankymole , @aRJay , @metatheurgist , @Jack Winter , & a few others ) actually just happens to be one of THE most caring/knowledgeable EliteD vets still posting on these forums.
and probably don't know what affects BGS.
Respectfully, it would appear you are wrong again sir --> https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/analysing-the-thargoid-simulation.611382/
 
Superpowers > Powerplay powers > Factions > Rag tag group of pilot federation pilots

Is that not how it should be? A squadron of 250 independent pilots should be having less of an impact than a power that is backed by tens of millions of people, over a system government that represents tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, should they not?
 
I suppose that if your supported faction is in control of a system where the 'module shoppers' (for want of a better name) are frantically selling their Rare Goods, then there's nothing much you can do to stop your Influence soaring. Trade is certainly one thing that's not segregated between PP and the BGS.
 
@Ian Doncaster
Where to claim bounties now? At powers handler or minor faction handler? Does claiming bounties at power handler also give influence to minor power system owner, has anyone figured that out yet?
Claiming at the power handler seems to at least give normal influence effects. I don't know that anyone has had time to do a controlled test to see if the 20% bonus payout actually increases the influence gain (though, with BGS diminishing returns curves, a 20% bonus is going to be pretty marginal anyway in most circumstances)

Maybe if they disconnected PP missions from system INF that might have helped.
I think the answer to that is a combination of "they already are" and "that's impossible within their wider design goals for Powerplay"

Taking the list of activities from this post
A summary of the Activities information
but merging the various Powerplay states together

ActivityAffects BGS?Influence Direction
Bounty HuntingYes*Positive
Collect Escape PodsYesPositive
Holoscreen HackingUnknown, probably not-
Power KillsUnknown, probably not-
Retrieve Odyssey Powerplay goodsNot directlyIndirectly may be negative or positive for settlement owner
Scan DatalinksNo-
Sell for large profitsYes, usual tradePositive
Sell mined resourcesYes, usual miningPositive
Sell rare goodsYes, usual tradePositive
{Various Power-specific data/goods transport activities}Unknown, probably not-
Aid + Humanitarian missions (inc Odyssey Reactivations)YesPositive, but likely spread across all factions
Flood markets with low-value goodsYes, though low price and lack of profitMight be positive or negative depending on exact transaction
Scan ships and WakesNo-
Hand in biological research samplesNo-
Hand in cartography dataYesPositive
Hand in salvageYesPositive
Commit crimes (specifically murders)YesNegative
Complete weekly Powerplay assignmentsNot directly-
EDIT: * Strictly, the Powerplay activity is "Collect bounties" which has no BGS effect, but let's assume that for the cash the bounties are also handed in to the same system, which then will.


Everything on the list either likely has no BGS effect at all (e.g. scanning ships, stealing Powerplay commodities from settlements), or has a BGS effect because it is just a normal gameplay action (e.g. trade, bounties) and there's no way to tell whether a player was doing it for the Powerplay effect, the BGS effect, or both (or even neither and just for the money!).

Frontier could have designed it so that (as in the original Powerplay) BGS-affecting actions had no immediate effect on Powerplay, sure - but that was specifically not their design goal: they wanted something where players could pick up merits through just playing the game, as well as through specifically "doing Powerplay", and that means actions which have BGS effects [1] because the "playing the game" actions do that too.



"Giving squadrons an easy time of managing their minor factions" has always only been at best a secondary goal for the BGS, so they're not going to design new content with that as an overriding concern. That much should have been obvious when the Stargoids came in, reduced a couple of hundred inhabited systems to wreckage in the first three months, and buried the occasional PMF entirely under an unassailable Thargoid control sphere.

There weren't many complaints at the time, because in practice the ones they completely buried had already been crushed years ago by a more powerful PMF neighbour, and that bigger PMF while losing a substantial number of systems to the Thargoids still had plenty left. Still, the largest-by-systems PMF in the game at the time did lose its home system to the Thargoids for well over a year, through poor luck of the draw in positioning.

[1] And generally, actions which have positive BGS effects, because - often at the request of various BGS-active player groups - ways to give negative BGS effects "just by playing the game" have been massively reduced or discouraged over the years. Unless you're an Anarchy faction, of course, where their in-game role as "designated punching bag" has made them impossible to balance BGS-wise.

(Which is why the BGS has all the diminishing return curves nowadays - as was seen in 3.6 when those were for a very short time briefly more linear, the controlling-faction advantage in terms of attracting passing-traffic influence is so substantial that very harsh diminishing returns are needed to keep even low-traffic systems in line)
 
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Unless you're an Anarchy faction, of course, where their in-game role as "designated punching bag" has made them impossible to balance BGS-wise.
Arguably very realistic when we look at the one sample we have in real life (mankind's history)... Civilisations with rules tend to overun/overrule/override smaller anarchic groups. Even organised crime syndicates seem to out-muscle and out-influence other criminals. There is no Simon Templar in real life.
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
Player Squadrons who work the BGS can't keep up with the INF from PP 2.0 missions being thrown at systems causing expansions everywhere. BGS Squadrons work days and weeks to make sure they don't unintentionally expand where they don't want to go. With PP 2.0 it's extremely difficult if not impossible to stem the INF causing the System Owners to go into expansion. BGS is now out of control.

Real forward thinking FDev...
As a leader of the 3rd biggest territorial faction in the galaxy, I agree that we're seeing a lot more dynamics in BGS.

What do I say to that? Finally! The galaxy really seems alive now. Things are really moving and dynamic.

Personally I like that a lot.
 
You mean a powerplay system that was so disconnected from the rest of the game, that it was in effect an easy to play mini-game that netted you a nice reward at the end of it and that was about it? 🫠
Yes, yes it was.
Sign on the dotted line
Do nothing for 3 weeks
Do an hour of murdering other faction ships
Pick up goodies week 4
Leave to go to next power
Rinse & repeat.

Splendid!
 
I believe the situation will get stabler once more CMDRs reach R100 and most territorial attrition slows down as undermining is much harder and slower (except against strongholds with carriers) than support reinforcement/acquisition strategies.
Possibly. Though the median merits per week seems to be in the 5-10k sort of range, and no-one is going to get rank 100 quickly that way; by the time they do some new players will have joined the game to replace them. My current 30k-ish places me comfortably in top 10% at the moment (though I suspect I might drop down to top 25% by Thursday morning if I don't do a bit more) and that's not going to get me to R100 quickly either, despite going faster than >90% of my Power.

It very much depends how much of the current spike in player activity is sustained long-term, I think - the initial boost has been huge (yesterday was the highest single day for one metric I measure since the Odyssey launch) but does that die off in a month, or three months, or will it like the engineering changes in August be that rare success which permanently shifts the baseline activity upwards?
 
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