I live in Yorkshire UK and have seen them regularly. I wasn't aware that they were a species that was kept in a zoo thats all.
Predicting the remaining dlc content
- Thread starter paul78
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I live in Yorkshire UK and have seen them regularly. I wasn't aware that they were a species that was kept in a zoo thats all.
I wish I could see them in the wild. I've gone to visit the countryside for the past 20 years, and not once have I seen a fox (red or gray). It's so annoying.
But I'd love one in the game
But I'd love one in the game
A lot of zoos here in the States showcase them despite them being a common native species. Typically a North America section at a zoo will have a lot of our smaller critters; foxes, skunks, possums (or opossum to you Europeans and Aussies), raccoons, river otters and beavers would all be likely to appear. Also popular are woodland bird aviaries with native species.
That's why I'm hoping for a NA animal pack. Just 1 pack, despite only adding 7 to the total 8 we already have, will make me happy. Maybe it won't have all the niche, filler NA animals shown in a typical NA zoo, but it's a vast improvement.
For the same reason I'd love a new Oceania animal pack and a new SA pack (to a lesser degree, a Europe pack as well, but many species are similar to other parts of the world, so Frontier would really need to get it right, which they likely will).
Africa and Asia got their niche, filler species (hyena, bingturong, dhole, mandrill, African wild dog, Japanese macaque, etc.)
Ive seen them in the city near us too before.
Yes, there are some zoos that have red foxes and a lot of small animal parks which focus on local fauna have them too. You can check the website zootierliste and you might be surprised of how common they are, at least in Europe.
Also, bear in mind that a lot of people don't live in the countryside and might have never seen a fox in the wild. I'm one of those people, for example. I think foxes are very cute and interesting animals. I'd love to have them in the game.
As it's a bit tricky to use Zootierliste as an english speaker: These zoos named underneath all hold red foxes. You don't see them wandering around everyhere in germany for example:
www.Zootierliste.de
www.zootierliste.de
As you can see, even the UK has a lot in captivity.
Just a heads up that there is an English language option on zootierliste...
Red Foxes are occasionaly displayed in zoos, more so in some smaller parks that display local fauna. It would be nice to be able to create all sort of parks, be it the big high-end zoos full of exotic species or small, low-budget parks focussing on native species or easy to keep animals.
Ohhhh, didn't know that. As I'm playing the game in english I finally now don't have to search for the correct translation anymore first
Though its usually easier to just google "Zootierliste+species"I see that.
Maybe I'm not feeling the impact as much because for me that's always been part of the "brand" for some of the channels. I came in at a point when some of our favorite creators were openly and consistently hostile to the parts of the player base that tried campaigns or franchise or just generally did things other than build. So for me at least, I didn't experience it as any different than what I've seen and felt before (and yet kept watching, then and now). But I totally understand how it might feel different for others.
Not sure that I totally buy this part (as an argument from creators in general. You of course are your own person!). The dismissal of the SEA pack by a lot of CC'ers was pretty immediate -- long before they had a chance to see whether things could keep them captivated. Even worse, I'm not sure how the devs are going to be able to judge ahead of time which things are going to "count as enough". Billboards were HUGELY requested, with people claiming beforehand that it would revolutionize what they did in the game. And yet many of these same creators -- the very ones who had experience with using them in Coaster and were pushing so hard for them and said they had so many ideas of how to use them -- suddenly decided that it didn't captivate their attention? Before the billboards released, CC'ers were raving about how they would use the billboards to build aquariums and small exhibits and custom walls and custom floors/paths and vistas and...... But then when the billboards actually came, many of those same creators didn't actually follow through with doing that for very long.
I think for some creators (not all), they'd begun signaling months before that Prehistoric Kingdom was going to be the source of their building inspiration for a while, and were shocked when PZ called their bluff by focusing their energy on animals instead. They then got further burned when the PK alpha buzz dissipated because viewers couldn't get their hands on the game. But by then, they'd already dug too deep to change the narrative and try out what the SEA pack/update actually did have to offer.
I sympathize with that predicament, and think it really sucks that their PK investment didn't pay off for those who pushed it so hard (or at least, hasn't paid off yet). But the experience does make me a little less trusting, and makes me take a step back from any statement to think: To what extent does this reflect what players want/need in the game (as different as that may be for different folks), and to what extent does it reflect an entirely separate set of interests that is about clicks, views, likes, etc.
For the record, I'm totally into this. I've said it before: Frontier, Please take my money!
I have no issue with CM's going out to other parts of the community to get a feel for what's happening. And I suspect they do that more than they're given credit for. But expecting them to monitor all these various sites all the time for every suggestion feels like too much. I see the forums as the equivalent of what you creators have with Dahlia. It's the most direct way for us "regular folks" to send something directly and know that it's been seen.
But I also think that there's a bit of a power play going on here. What tends to go unsaid -- and what I hear whenever someone attacks the forums -- is how many of those sites/discords/reddits are run/moderated by the very content creators who are trying to increase their followers, and already have a direct email to Dahlia. And are organized around specific (but not equally representative) game styles.You mentioned builder discords and modder discords for example, but I'm unaware of discords focused on franchise tips or the campaign mode or timed scenarios. (Or maybe these exist and I just haven't found them?).
I'm not opposed to Frontier setting up their own official discords, etc. But I also don't think there's anything inherently easier about signing up for reddit/discord/twitter than signing up for the forums. Surely people who can manipulate game code to the extent that modders do, or build something as elaborate as we see on BroNation, or handle all the tech needed to record and upload to youtube, can also figure out how to set up a forum account. Even some of us old tech dinosaurs have managed to do it! Which suggests to me that something else is really what's at the heart of the objection to the forums. -- They're open and allow for the possibility of getting feedback from all play styles on an equal playing field, instead of being a home field advantage where the subcommunity has already been narrowed down to a particular interest.
Which makes total sense from a creator perspective. As you say, creators have their own interests, which are distinct both from players and from Frontier, and which includes growing and solidifying their following. If it was really about getting their viewers' voices heard, every video would end with them telling their viewers to come to the forums to let Frontier know about what they'd discussed, with a link to the forums the same way they do to their personal discords and workshops. But of course that doesn't happen because the goal is to get people to comment on their own video. Which again, I'm not mad about (and do often). Just very much aware of as a business necessity.
Getting back on topic: We all know that it won't go on forever. But there seems to be a lot of selective use of PC here. I mean, if creators really believed that Frontier is following the same model when it comes to hoping for more dlc, why doesn't the same logic apply back to them about building pieces? If animal packs are really the equivalent of end-of-run coaster packs, then after the announcement of the SEA pack we should have seen content creators setting their own expectations accordingly, and grounding builders in the "pattern" that we're now on the coaster-only/animal-only track of our journey until the end. Why wouldn't they want to keep these people "grounded" in the same way about those expectations? But that's not what the creators did, and not the pattern that Frontier followed with the Africa pack. Indeed, the exact opposite happened: People who wanted an animal pack for Africa were the ones who were told they were being unrealistic -- even obeying the pattern would have said that once we go coaster pack/animal pack, we don't go back to scenery until the final farewell (ghostbusters).
I'm really glad the first modding revolution happened when it did, because you know I love you guys. But again, I feel like there are some odd selections being made about what we interpret that to mean, and it leaves me with more questions than answers. If mods account for the increase of players, isn't that just proof of the demand, and free market testing that might show Frontier how long they could extend this game? Doesn't the very fact that there were 150 mods made so quickly distinguish this from the Planet Coaster pattern that was being argued for above, where the options for expansion were probably more limited? And if it turns out that content creators actually already had enough pieces to build habitats for 150 modded animals, then surely they could have had enough to build for 7, and didn't really need to throw such a fuss about one animal pack?
Totally agree that sales and corporate strategy will be the real determinant (by which I mean both actual PZ sales themselves, and sales of other games both current and projected). But it's interesting to me how much we all use the numbers to serve our own purposes. (yes, I'm including myself).
Like the SEA pack like I do? Those April numbers look pretty good.
Dislike the SEA pack? The spike is probably more because of mods or the spring sale.
Think the game has a longer support life? Those numbers look pretty steady, especially considering that people are returning to their lives after a pandemic. And the updated engine signals that they won't run up against tech obsolescence, and might even add birds.
Think the game has a shorter support life? The numbers aren't growing or matching what they did in the first 6 months, or a dlc that dropped at the start of the pandemic when everyone was stuck at home. The updated engine signals a shift to console and the end of our run.
This post sums everything perfectly. Thank you so much. As a franchise player and person who advocates for zt2 style challenges I feel like a small minority and not a lot of CCs speak to my likes. I still love watching the content to get ideas... but I’m not a pure builder.. unless I really like the story around the zoo or build, or the person is saying something interesting I usually get bored of time lapses and just skip ahead. Where’s my voice? Do I matter to the games audience? According to most CC’s not really... I love the modding revolution but I’ll take official new rigs and models (except for the tapir and other unfortunate mishaps) than modding at its current state. Especially because I play franchise. I can’t wait till we get to the point of Zt2 with new rigs and custom animal sounds but we’re not there yet. I’m gonna hold off on modding until the support for the game is over. (Sorry for my tangent on modding) all that to say that no modding doesn’t replace new official animal drops for me. And most CCs were acting like it does just because they hate the SEA pack that much because their views dropped and they invested so heavily to PK.
I’m sorry if I came off as hostile I just felt like my voice doesn’t matter to the community because of CCs and the forum gives me some slight hope that the CMs see my posts.. cause I don’t have a Dahlia
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Btw @Leaf Productions I love your content and all you do for the community so please don’t take my above post as an attack on you personally I apologize if it felt like that
Totally fine bro! I don't mind at all - I know I'm a dumb donkey and I'll admit it sometimes!
I'm just a guy who wishes Frontier could take a shift over to Discord, that's my main argument here lol
I thought I'd just weigh in a little cause I must admit, this conversation topic kinda took a weird turn into complaining about content creators vs. the "community" or at least what people perceive as their bubble of the community. For transparency sake, I am a content creator, I am a builder, but I am also a zoo nerd first and foremost, but I'm also a modder. I'm very similar to Leaf who put it best, you want representatives of several subsections of the community, him and I are good examples.
For starters, I kinda want to defend the two content creators (who I will admit for bias, are personal buddies of mine), and say the "20 people on the forum comment" was made in jest and frankly not to be taken as a personal attack. That statement was not targeting a specific group because that argument could be made about any subsection of the community that can be a bit loud and obnoxious. Whether that be twitter, facebook, the reddit, any number of discords or frankly content creators youtube comment sections (trust me I know). Just because a content creator says something that you don't personally agree with, doesn't mean you should also bash them and say they "changed" or are "in a bubble" cause that also isn't necessarily true. Like I love the guys but the 20 people in a community argument was funny due to the irony of them only have roughly 20 viewers themselves, at the time of that podcast. The argument that the comment was anything other than a little side jab meant to be taken in a lighthearted manner as they discuss how great the Africa Pack is, is ridiculous. I'd just really have to stretch the definition to call that comment "mocking their fans or community".
Everyone (including those two creators) sometimes kinda boast that "they know what's best for the game". Whether that be animals, whether that be props, whether that be the game even just ending altogether so modders can pick up the slack without limitations. All are both equally valid, and equally invalid. Just because many people on this forum thread for instance seem to be blaming the content creators "disliking the SEA pack" as wrong, its frankly no different than those same people saying how "Frontier is going backwards by making another prop pack for an area already that has a theme". You just have differing opinions and different ways to play the game. I for example, would like a North american prop set. I enjoy building. Do I think we need more animals? Of course I do. But I also see props as more valuable if the animals that will be chosen can be made with mods. Now that is just the modder side of me. I totally understand if people disagree with that opinion. Even I myself disagree with that opinion to an extent if we talk about something objective like the fact that if PZ is ported to console, that will not have mod support, so what I deem as "clone animals that are already mods" like an alligator, might be appreciated as official animals if modding isn't an option.
I also want to talk about a point that I think members of this forum thread brought up that I think IS an excellent point. That many content creators, are not like myself. Are not like Leaf. They aren't "Zoo nerds" first and foremost, they are willing to jump ship for JWE2 or Planet Coaster 2 at the first moment's notice. That is entirely true. So when someone who frankly is a planet coaster fan seems to explain that "they know what planet zoo needs" if you are a zoo/animal person, you would immediately get the frustrated attitude of "Who is this person telling me what should be in the game that's made for 'me', not 'them'?" Now that being said, that has a kind of gatekeepy attitude which is frankly bad for any community. Its just as bad to say "We don't need animals in a zoo game" as it is to say "We dont need any more props or building tools in a building game". Whether people like it or not, the game is frankly both. It is a zoo game, but it is also a building game. Frontier needs to accommodate both groups. So don't get angry if a DLC comes out and its not "Your cup of tea". There will almost certainly be more animal packs, but there also will be more theme packs. Neither group should complain that either exists.
Reality is, NO ONE, in this community, can talk in objectivity about how the game is gonna go. No one can say definitively whether we have 0 dlcs left, 2 more left, or 15 more left. Maybe the game WILL last for 10 years. Not a safe bet, but it is possible. We just don't know. Hindsight is 20/20 and only once the game has ceased development will we know if the game's post launch roadmap was a good or bad choice. Best we can hope for is frontier as a whole tries to appeal to their entire community through good communication. JWE and PC fans weren't even aware their last DLC was their last until years of silence kinda just defacto made them figure it out. I think we all hope that if and when we get our last PZ dlc we aren't just cut off communication wise cold turkey. Similarly I hope they try their best to appeal to ALL sections of the community. From the builder crowd, animal crowd, coaster guys, to the modders. Every fandom (the forum, discords, youtube channels, twitter, facebook, reddit, tik tok, instagram, etc) each has players and they all want the same thing, to be heard. To not feel alienated. No matter what there will also be people who want to be negative towards the game. That goes with every fandom (hell, I am negative when I see something worth commenting on as much as anyone). But I just hope that frontier does their best to try to end the game on a high note for as large of a group of people as possible.
TL;DR Please just be nice. Disagreements happen. But I think we all can agree, there isn't one definitive person or group who speaks for "Everyone" in regards to "What is best for the future of Planet Zoo".
For starters, I kinda want to defend the two content creators (who I will admit for bias, are personal buddies of mine), and say the "20 people on the forum comment" was made in jest and frankly not to be taken as a personal attack. That statement was not targeting a specific group because that argument could be made about any subsection of the community that can be a bit loud and obnoxious. Whether that be twitter, facebook, the reddit, any number of discords or frankly content creators youtube comment sections (trust me I know). Just because a content creator says something that you don't personally agree with, doesn't mean you should also bash them and say they "changed" or are "in a bubble" cause that also isn't necessarily true. Like I love the guys but the 20 people in a community argument was funny due to the irony of them only have roughly 20 viewers themselves, at the time of that podcast. The argument that the comment was anything other than a little side jab meant to be taken in a lighthearted manner as they discuss how great the Africa Pack is, is ridiculous. I'd just really have to stretch the definition to call that comment "mocking their fans or community".
Everyone (including those two creators) sometimes kinda boast that "they know what's best for the game". Whether that be animals, whether that be props, whether that be the game even just ending altogether so modders can pick up the slack without limitations. All are both equally valid, and equally invalid. Just because many people on this forum thread for instance seem to be blaming the content creators "disliking the SEA pack" as wrong, its frankly no different than those same people saying how "Frontier is going backwards by making another prop pack for an area already that has a theme". You just have differing opinions and different ways to play the game. I for example, would like a North american prop set. I enjoy building. Do I think we need more animals? Of course I do. But I also see props as more valuable if the animals that will be chosen can be made with mods. Now that is just the modder side of me. I totally understand if people disagree with that opinion. Even I myself disagree with that opinion to an extent if we talk about something objective like the fact that if PZ is ported to console, that will not have mod support, so what I deem as "clone animals that are already mods" like an alligator, might be appreciated as official animals if modding isn't an option.
I also want to talk about a point that I think members of this forum thread brought up that I think IS an excellent point. That many content creators, are not like myself. Are not like Leaf. They aren't "Zoo nerds" first and foremost, they are willing to jump ship for JWE2 or Planet Coaster 2 at the first moment's notice. That is entirely true. So when someone who frankly is a planet coaster fan seems to explain that "they know what planet zoo needs" if you are a zoo/animal person, you would immediately get the frustrated attitude of "Who is this person telling me what should be in the game that's made for 'me', not 'them'?" Now that being said, that has a kind of gatekeepy attitude which is frankly bad for any community. Its just as bad to say "We don't need animals in a zoo game" as it is to say "We dont need any more props or building tools in a building game". Whether people like it or not, the game is frankly both. It is a zoo game, but it is also a building game. Frontier needs to accommodate both groups. So don't get angry if a DLC comes out and its not "Your cup of tea". There will almost certainly be more animal packs, but there also will be more theme packs. Neither group should complain that either exists.
Reality is, NO ONE, in this community, can talk in objectivity about how the game is gonna go. No one can say definitively whether we have 0 dlcs left, 2 more left, or 15 more left. Maybe the game WILL last for 10 years. Not a safe bet, but it is possible. We just don't know. Hindsight is 20/20 and only once the game has ceased development will we know if the game's post launch roadmap was a good or bad choice. Best we can hope for is frontier as a whole tries to appeal to their entire community through good communication. JWE and PC fans weren't even aware their last DLC was their last until years of silence kinda just defacto made them figure it out. I think we all hope that if and when we get our last PZ dlc we aren't just cut off communication wise cold turkey. Similarly I hope they try their best to appeal to ALL sections of the community. From the builder crowd, animal crowd, coaster guys, to the modders. Every fandom (the forum, discords, youtube channels, twitter, facebook, reddit, tik tok, instagram, etc) each has players and they all want the same thing, to be heard. To not feel alienated. No matter what there will also be people who want to be negative towards the game. That goes with every fandom (hell, I am negative when I see something worth commenting on as much as anyone). But I just hope that frontier does their best to try to end the game on a high note for as large of a group of people as possible.
TL;DR Please just be nice. Disagreements happen. But I think we all can agree, there isn't one definitive person or group who speaks for "Everyone" in regards to "What is best for the future of Planet Zoo".
Good read, Nick.
Again I personally appreciate that content creators also give their points of view here, specially our awesome modders!
We all want the best for this game and we all players, communities etc. have our notion of what's best for the game, what's to come and for how long it will come. Every opinion regarding this topic is 100% valid because each of us likes different things or plays in a different style.
I also appreciate that you try and ease things a bit with regards to what was said in that stream. But personally I wouldn't say that was just simple banter between two guys in a friendly atmosphere. The comment about "the 20 forum users" is just wrong, not offensive at all. The problem came when they repeatedly called this forum a toxic place, and that it's the last platform they'd recommend people to go to talk about PZ. Those remarks were particularly odd coming from content creators who haven't been particularly fanboys of PZ and have often questioned its immediate future success and longevity.
We can perfectly move on, but I would not simply undervalue what was said there.
Again I personally appreciate that content creators also give their points of view here, specially our awesome modders!
We all want the best for this game and we all players, communities etc. have our notion of what's best for the game, what's to come and for how long it will come. Every opinion regarding this topic is 100% valid because each of us likes different things or plays in a different style.
I also appreciate that you try and ease things a bit with regards to what was said in that stream. But personally I wouldn't say that was just simple banter between two guys in a friendly atmosphere. The comment about "the 20 forum users" is just wrong, not offensive at all. The problem came when they repeatedly called this forum a toxic place, and that it's the last platform they'd recommend people to go to talk about PZ. Those remarks were particularly odd coming from content creators who haven't been particularly fanboys of PZ and have often questioned its immediate future success and longevity.
We can perfectly move on, but I would not simply undervalue what was said there.
nick said:
“Its just as bad to say "We don't need animals in a zoo game" as it is to say "We dont need any more props or building tools in a building game". Whether people like it or not, the game is frankly both. It is a zoo game, but it is also a building game. Frontier needs to accommodate both groups. So don't get angry if a DLC comes out and its not "Your cup of tea". There will almost certainly be more animal packs, but there also will be more theme packs. Neither group should complain that either exists.”
1000% True.
“Its just as bad to say "We don't need animals in a zoo game" as it is to say "We dont need any more props or building tools in a building game". Whether people like it or not, the game is frankly both. It is a zoo game, but it is also a building game. Frontier needs to accommodate both groups. So don't get angry if a DLC comes out and its not "Your cup of tea". There will almost certainly be more animal packs, but there also will be more theme packs. Neither group should complain that either exists.”
1000% True.
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The one I saw was near mcdonalds very early in the morning....try thereTrue, but I haven't seen them either.
One day...
I mean see it like that. Every animal is native to somewhere. For us a zebra might be an excotic zoo animal, for people in afrika they are just stupid striped horses.
And even then, native animals have also their charm with local zoos and being a cool animal overall
And even then, native animals have also their charm with local zoos and being a cool animal overall