Don’t forget that starports can hold an infinite number of player ships in storage (since there’s no limit to how many players can use a given starport for ship storage).
Just imagine how many ships must be crammed inside Jameson Memorial.
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Just imagine how many ships must be crammed inside Jameson Memorial.
Lestat
Banned
Yes and no. It should be talking about in Beta. But the thing is in Beta. A lot of things will be talking about. If Frontier get a basic idea what people want here it might help before Beta. We are seeing some good ideas.
My idea was if your Scanner was in a larger Module slot it could be used for extra Ammo.
No, I guess the reason is that the new DSS mechanics need to be available also to Non-Horizons players. Non-Horizons players can't synthesize, that's horizons content. Adam was clearly unprepared to this when it was questioned during the previous livestream and he said that they had to think about a solution for it.
I made a proposal that would solve all issues that have been highlighted in this thread and it's very simple.
BASIC and INTERMEDIATE scanners! Instead of limited range they need to have a limited probes stock quantity.
ADVANCED is unlimited
This would also solve the issue with explorers out in the black witout an SRV. They have an advanced scanner for sure so they don't need to come back to equip an SRV
Proposal here:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...rm-Scanner-got-limited-Advanced-got-unlimited
People be people, yo. It's a thing. I am actually seeing a lot of practical approaches to what they are doing, including recognising potential flow issues and addressing; and from what I've seen so far, most of it has a method to the madness. This is in a bit of stark contrast to the "she'll be right m8" random approaches with no apparent cause, up until recently.
If mining ends up having the same sort of logical and practical approaches done, I can't even begin to explain how much that will bolster my interest in the game, and recognition for what they have done. This update might, possibly, be Frontier's own recent Hello Game's moment.
It's never going to be perfect; but I have so much more interest in Beta, than I did last week.
Close encounters of the unlimited probe kind just in time of Halloween! 
It will make ADS the de-facto outcome, which is no different to now. People complain about the honk, yet still use the ADS. Your suggestion is great, but it's assuming there are people who would use basic or intermediate then, like they do now. Except, apart from newbies who rapidly outgrow it, apparently very few people use basic or intermediate. It's also creating the same friction regards capability, as existing.
Essentially; if people don't choose to use BDS, IDS now, despite that (crudely) solving the instant honk, they won't use them post update for much the same reason; because as much as people ask for limits on things, they seldom actually want to be constrained by them. I suspect the developer has realised the practicalities of the situation; which is also a bit of a first.
ADS is changing considerably already. It's worth considering that, imho. This will all become apparent during Beta; and it'll be easier to judge if this is truly a concern or not, imho. Context is important.
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Emm yes, check the stream. Reason is quite simple. For big systems that limit would be needed to be in thousands thus rendering that for majority of systems pointless. Rewatch stream where Adam explains that.
Lestat
Banned
People if we are looking at Non-Horizon players. Simple solution. Maybe give them a basic Material only suited for Probes. Let regular weapons be used to Mining and collect basic Probe materials or another idea. If they are Explorers. Use one of the Devs ideas DDF was scoop Mats from Gas Giants. It would have to be common mats.
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Pretty much. If we can fire a few hundred probes or something and then have to refill, it will rapidly become a chore, and all the work Frontier has put into this, will be funnelled through that lens. Frontier are being practical, and considering how mechanics will play out; this verus just assuming everything will be fine, which has been the more common approach.
They have addressed the primary concerns, and exploration is now more involved, and instant honk (from a reveal perspective) is gone but apparently there is just no limit to how much you can limit people, which is sort of ironically hilarious.
Looking forward to Beta more than I was, for sure. Also I am finding I am agreeing with you and that on top of Frontier being practical is quite a lot to process in one day!
Anyway, who said that probes are made from physical stuff? Perhaps they are packets of quantum-photon-mcguffin-energy-packet-things?
I don't suppose there will be much of a queue if you get in there first.
![BigBANGtheory [VR]](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/71/71385.jpg?1644873788){kind=avatar}
I think I would have proffered "a large number" rather than infinite but hey its not a big deal it just implies they are synthesized automatically or stocked in enormous numbers as part of the module.
Finally watched the stream bit where they showcase the probes.
Someone mentioned this already - gotta repeat it: get rid of the infinite ammo indicator. Cringy AF.
Also I dislike the efficiency target mechanic? Credits for efficiency? Paid by whom, and for what actual reason? What, do they supply the probes? Am I not buying them? What am I, the probe custodian? The probe shepherd through the valley of space darkness?
But really, they're just setting up a system where people will occasionally fail to reach the target and end up feeling bad about it.
While those that will push themselves to meet the target won't do it for the money, they'll do it for the show-off. Probably quick drawing from the hip and shooting the entire clip as fast as possible, in addition to using as little probes as possible. Given that planets are always spherical, it won't be hard to set up a pattern of where you need to shoot, which afterwards you only need to follow. The real skill will be in doing it as fast as possible.
Someone mentioned this already - gotta repeat it: get rid of the infinite ammo indicator. Cringy AF.
Also I dislike the efficiency target mechanic? Credits for efficiency? Paid by whom, and for what actual reason? What, do they supply the probes? Am I not buying them? What am I, the probe custodian? The probe shepherd through the valley of space darkness?
But really, they're just setting up a system where people will occasionally fail to reach the target and end up feeling bad about it.
While those that will push themselves to meet the target won't do it for the money, they'll do it for the show-off. Probably quick drawing from the hip and shooting the entire clip as fast as possible, in addition to using as little probes as possible. Given that planets are always spherical, it won't be hard to set up a pattern of where you need to shoot, which afterwards you only need to follow. The real skill will be in doing it as fast as possible.
I've seen it but that's a side effect of the main issue. The horizons limitation is more challenging for FD because it's also "political" decision, not technical only.
The quantity balancing could have been adjusted during the beta... that's what beta is for.
Lestat
Banned
People are posting a large amount. My idea is around 20,000 Probes with options to use Module space to hold more up to 100,000. Other ideas are to use the fuel scoop to scoop mats from a Gas Giant.
if you need imersion you are free to roleplay and dump material in space
Like Engineers (both times) or ship transfer? I think it has merit to discuss things prior to its release.
At that amount, you might as well not put a limit on it, because it's basically become an artificial amount, it's not tied to anything. Maybe it makes sense to actually see how much we use probes first? There's potential to make what would otherwise be a fairly fluid improvement, a negative gate because the system has finite reserves and they have to be topped up and that will create a drag on the experience.
One cannot expect everything.
Discuss? Sure; make changes prior to understanding their impact? That's never worked out quite as well as people want to believe; engineering is in fact a good example of that. Frontier has gone on to rework mechanics at times, yet you'd think this never happens. On the contrary, it sounds like Frontier are simply being practical as well as putting quite a lot of care into what they are doing, and I can't really fault them on that.
Agree to disagree. o7
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With engineers, their first version with its pervasive RNG, to the point you couldn't even get experimental effects in a controlled manner, was terrible (and the system only ever become somewhat okay with this year's complete overhaul). And instantaneous ship transfer would have opened a huge can of worms with regards to gameplay; immersion was only ever a strawman, the real problem was how it would replace the physicality of location with a hammer space inventory of ships that you could pull out at a moment's notice.
A better comparison would be the debate about ship transfer cost. Infinite mapping probes could be compared to free (but non-instantaneous) ship transfers, an idea which imo has merit.
I think probes could have still been synthesizable but cheap, and it would have been preferable to infinite. 1 Iron = 200 probes is something probably anyone could deal with, and it would have added a little more impact to their use, and more payoff for "getting good".
Other people have already said this, but I think another alternative would be if the probes should use a little fuel with each one you launch. Maybe the materials themselves are handwaved as trivial, but hey we're launching an object within its own little Frame-Shift envelope so maybe it deploys the ship's drive capacities in some way.
Here's the other thing: the whole "efficiency" concept for mapping planets is neat, but doesn't make any sense in a world where probes are infinite. If they are a limitless non-resource then there's no such thing as efficiency. That's clearly an idea that is left over from Frontier's original vision for the idea before youtubers complained, and it doesn't really fit anymore.
I'd like to see something other than infinite probes because it would make the whole activity more consequential if it were connected to other parts of the game. Maybe ammo limited but extremely cheap to synthesize, with the option of a "plasma slug" like special engineering effect which lets you use fuel instead of mats?
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