∞ probes?

[VR SenseiMatty]

Because updates should never take away existing gameplay, and right now non-Horizons players can explore the same way Horizon players can. Now an interesting question is - do the probes replace current exploration gameplay or introduce new gameplay? At first I thought it was the former, but it seems like the new DS replaces the old ADS and DSS, and the probes are something entirely new (mapping POIs to our nav panel). If this is the case, then your point is valid IMO.

That was not mentioned but according to the statement that Beyond is accessible only to Horizons player the old ADS+DSS should remain in the game for the non-horizons players. To be honest, Horizons was released 3 years ago and it should now be the basic version of Elite. They should stop messing with mulitple versions it just introduce limitations to both versions.

That's why they have the efficiency bonus.

It's just a credit bonus feature.

And Exploration is not about Credits!

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

That was not mentioned but according to the statement that Beyond is accessible only to Horizons player the old ADS+DSS should remain in the game for the non-horizons players. To be honest, Horizons was released 3 years ago and it should now be the basic version of Elite. They should stop messing with mulitple versions it just introduce limitations to both versions.



It's just a credit bonus feature.

And Exploration is not about Credits!

It is for many. It also gives incentive to use as few as possible.

 

[Old Duck]

TBH I don't care about the lore explanation

ED is a unique game for me in that I really want it to make sense, because so much of was original designed to be "scientifically accurate" (Braben's own words). I have come up with countless "handwavium" explanations to deal with nonsensical things like infinite probes.

So in my own "mind castle", probes are "packets of energy" that "splash" an area and reflect back to sensors on my ship, very much like the active sonar ping from a submarine. Just like submarines have infinite "pings", we have infinite energy packets that "light up" part of the planet surface for scanning. This also helps explain how they work while in supercruise, which makes way more sense than Frontier's explanation.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

TBH I don't care about the lore explanation, I care more about the gameplay and having unlimited probes removes the challenge from the mapping mini-game. Everyone will literally start bombing planets with probes.

They can, but they’ll loose out on that efficiency bonus. “Space Golf” really is a suitable nickname, as to get the bonus you have finish at or below par. So no, the challenge remains.

Think about this: You’re 27k ly out in the black, drop in to an amazing system with 31 bodies to map, the smallest of which will take 11 probes. You have 12, and no more probeonium, because that is only found on rocky worlds with fumeroles, and the last one of those you saw was 19,445 ly away. Now you’re angry because you can’t complete your scan of this system.

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

It is for many. It also gives incentive to use as few as possible.

[video=youtube;G6MzYnOZ0NQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6MzYnOZ0NQ[/video]

ED is a unique game for me in that I really want it to make sense, because so much of was original designed to be "scientifically accurate" (Braben's own words). I have come up with countless "handwavium" explanations to deal with nonsensical things like infinite probes.

So in my own "mind castle", probes are "packets of energy" that "splash" an area and reflect back to sensors on my ship, very much like the active sonar ping from a submarine. Just like submarines have infinite "pings", we have infinite energy packets that "light up" part of the planet surface for scanning. This also helps explain how they work while in supercruise, which makes way more sense than Frontier's explanation.

I should have elaborated more.
I mean I don't care about the lore becuase both unlimited or synthesized probes can be explained with proper lore background. Even unlimited ones. So the main concern is the gameplay.

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

They can, but they’ll loose out on that efficiency bonus. “Space Golf” really is a suitable nickname, as to get the bonus you have finish at or below par. So no, the challenge remains.

Think about this: You’re 27k ly out in the black, drop in to an amazing system with 31 bodies to map, the smallest of which will take 11 probes. You have 12, and no more probeonium, because that is only found on rocky worlds with fumeroles, and the last one of those you saw was 19,445 ly away. Now you’re angry because you can’t complete your scan of this system.

Out of the context... Probes, in the original vision were meant to be synthesized with common materials, not rare ones.
Anyway fumarole planets are not as rare as you claim and with the probes you could find fumarole more easily.

 

[rennarda]

From a gameplay perspective I think it would have been better for probes to be limited, but more powerful. So you'd maybe only have five probes but each one could map out an entire world and its moons for you (over a period of time). Deciding to launch one would have been a strategic decision - is this world worth the potential investment, or too dangerous to investigate in person? Imagine if you could switch to piloting a probe in a similar way to piloting a fighter (but with much longer range, and supercuise).

It makes no sense from a lore point of view that probes are just lobbed and forgotten. They can't even make orbit!

 

[thistle]

Out of the context... Probes, in the original vision were meant to be synthesized with common materials, not rare ones.
Anyway fumarole planets are not as rare as you claim and with the probes you could find fumarole more easily.

It doesn't matter.

It really doesn't.

I'm not sure I'd have been immersed watching TNG if Picard had run out of probes.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

From a gameplay perspective I think it would have been better for probes to be limited, but more powerful. So you'd maybe only have five probes but each one could map out an entire world and its moons for you (over a period of time). Deciding to launch one would have been a strategic decision - is this world worth the potential investment, or too dangerous to investigate in person? Imagine if you could switch to piloting a probe in a similar way to piloting a fighter (but with much longer range, and supercuise).

It makes no sense from a lore point of view that probes are just lobbed and forgotten. They can't even make orbit!

Telepresence probes... Why is my mind not going where it should?

 

[thistle]

I believe the "original vision" (remember that was all of a few weeks ago, not written in a holy book) was for probes to hit the surface. Now according to the forum post they "detonate in a low orbit around the stellar body".
Which seems fine.

And they are infinite. Which is also fine.

 

[JonesTheFilm]

I'm lazily copy/pasting something I wrote in another thread, because it probably should have been here.

A lot of people seem to have a problem with the probes being unlimited. I managed to solve that problem in my head by adding the word 'effectively' before 'unlimited' - Maybe Frontier could just add that word in and make everything okay.

In the early talk of probes (back at Lavecon I think) I'm sure I heard Sandro or someone refer to them as 'micro-probes'. I quite liked that idea (nano-probes might have been even better) it helped me get over the problem of how fast they'd have to go in (presumably) supercruise to get to the planets. Very low mass presumably means very high speed. It also helps with the idea of there being hundreds (thousands?) of them packed in whatever kind of projector they're fired from.

One thing that looks odd to me is the very long persistent trail they leave. Is that intended to be 'real', or is it just something projected by the HUD for information purposes I wonder? Either way it looks a bit ... er ... No Man's Sky? Not that I mind No Man's Sky, I'm playing it a lot at the moment - but it's a very different aesthetic from Elite Dangerous.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

I'm lazily copy/pasting something I wrote in another thread, because it probably should have been here.

I would say it's super-imposed by the HUD to help us aim if we're off.

 

[Old Duck]

I believe the "original vision" (remember that was all of a few weeks ago, not written in a holy book) was for probes to hit the surface. Now according to the forum post they "detonate in a low orbit around the stellar body".
Which seems fine.

And they are infinite. Which is also fine.

I'm telling ya, they are balls of modulated energy (affected by magnetic fields, thus the ability to curve to the back side) that 'light up' a section of the planet for our ship's sensors, just like active sonar on a submarine. And thus they are infinite, as long as our ship has power.

While some of the nuances of the science are above my pay grade, it makes way more sense than an infinite number of physical FSD-equipped "probes" - rockets, darts, whatever they supposedly are.

My mind is made up - this is the way it is!

 

[Kamiyoda]

I would say it's super-imposed by the HUD to help us aim if we're off.

Time to shoot probes with a shattered canopy

 

[kofeyh]

Wait a sec...

Why is everyone bothered with the impact on Non-Horizons players?

They are not supposed to have access to Beyond contents!

And Beyond is not purchasable anyway!

Do you understand that exploration is not limited to horizons, that 1.x players can actually still cross the galaxy, and will still have access to modules like the discovery scanner, or are you gonna keep willfully throwing a portion of the player base under the bus because who cares anyway? Never mind buying horizons today gets Beyond? I dont even understand what your point is. Way to win an argument.

I am quite thankful frontier put a bit more thought into the impacts of their choices than the forums, to be honest.

 

[kofeyh]

Time to shoot probes with a shattered canopy

Shoot probes with probes? Or shooting your canopy at probes?
Probalicious!

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Just deprecate the base game already and give everyone horizons. Problem solved

Btw I am done arguing on it now . I made my point and how dissapointed I am so gonna reel my neck in a bit now btw everything else in the reveal imo was very good.

 

[Andovar]

I'm telling ya, they are balls of modulated energy (affected by magnetic fields, thus the ability to curve to the back side) that 'light up' a section of the planet for our ship's sensors, just like active sonar on a submarine. And thus they are infinite, as long as our ship has power.

That's fine. Just get rid of the ∞ symbol, it's a bit pointless.
Kinda like having ∞ next to our lasers so we know that laser "ammo" is infinite.

 

[Vorxian]

I'm telling ya, they are balls of modulated energy (affected by magnetic fields, thus the ability to curve to the back side) that 'light up' a section of the planet for our ship's sensors, just like active sonar on a submarine. And thus they are infinite, as long as our ship has power.

While some of the nuances of the science are above my pay grade, it makes way more sense than an infinite number of physical FSD-equipped "probes" - rockets, darts, whatever they supposedly are.

My mind is made up - this is the way it is!

We are of like mind! +1

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

Do you understand that exploration is not limited to horizons, that 1.x players can actually still cross the galaxy, and will still have access to modules like the discovery scanner, or are you gonna keep willfully throwing a portion of the player base under the bus because who cares anyway?

Way to win an argument. I am quite thankful frontier put a bit more thought into the impacts of their choices than the forums, to be honest.

If Non-Horizons players will receive the same modules then my proposal with Basic and Intermediate Scanners is even more valid:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...rm-Scanner-got-limited-Advanced-got-unlimited