PvE Groups; are they just a fad?

[Darkfyre99]

In the end, I think this was just the marketing speech.
They're not incmpetent so they had to know what the system they built would lead to.

My belief is just that in the end they wanted to attract some of the rot from EVE Online as they can potentially throw a lot of money at a game, but FD could never state that openly.

The thing is, in the DDF, Frontier outlined a wonderful two tier CPR (crime, punishment, and reputation) system that would've resulted in a much richer and nuanced game experience, both for PvE, and for PvP. At the end of the day, however, they dialed back the effects of the first tier of the CPR system, regarding actions against NPCs, and never even attempted to implement the second tier if their CPR system, regarding player vs player activities.

So IMO, it is neither incompetence, nor evil marketing. I think it's just laziness.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

So IMO, it is neither incompetence, nor evil marketing. I think it's just laziness.

laziness in the it buisness is mot of the time a mix of both, evl marketing and incompetence. it is the unwill to go through the not so easy procedure of implemention because the current skillset can't find a quick and cheap solution. And so someone decdes to throw marketing slogans out of the window (and the credibility of marketing) for some pure buisnesscase related reasons.

 

[babelfisch]

laziness in the it buisness is mot of the time a mix of both, evl marketing and incompetence. it is the unwill to go through the not so easy procedure of implemention because the current skillset can't find a quick and cheap solution. And so someone decdes to throw marketing slogans out of the window (and the credibility of marketing) for some pure buisnesscase related reasons.

So we have incompetence, evil marketing, lack of time, laziness and mouth odour?

 

[Arkadi]

If Fronier wanted PvE to be a major content for multiplayer/coop content maybe they would have made it a bit more challenging and varied?

Also shared wing-missions?

There is not much in the game that makes me think its a coop PvE game...

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

So we have incompetence, evil marketing, lack of time, laziness and mouth odour?

competence affects time and is a buidness ressource, so these therms are substitudes. Lazness is the unwill to spend this time (and the money it costs salaries and stuff). It all comes down at the end that someone either ha sno interets in it to be part of the product or willinly didn't wanted it because the costs are too high.

Mouth ordour, probably not, that does so far not transfer via internet. Except the one guy with the perfect buisness plan that can implement it isn't doing a presentation because of his mouth odour, then we can surely blame it as well.

 

[Kolato]

From what i remember people wanted to make PVE groups back in the old beta. (2014) So no, it's not just a fad.

 

[Blackcompany]

Correct.

Playing a game, is not the same as designing a game or running a game company for profit.
Also, as a player, what you like may seem great but that same thing as a designer could be a disaster to implement (if it can be at all) and as a game company that idea may only be wanted by a minority, so wouldn't work for the bulk of the other players.

I to have played games for over 20 years, that does not make me better than a professional Dev or CEO to judge what is best for the game in the short or long term.
It doesn't make you better either.



You're entitled to give your opinions on any game, but that is all it is - your personal opinion.
Nothing more, nothing less - it is worth exactly the same as the next persons opinion.



Because professionals have years of experience reviewing games for a living.
They get pre-view copies of games and don't play games for enjoyment, they play them to find pros and cons.
That is a different style of play, than just your normal play to enjoy that you and I do when we login.



You clearly didn't use yours in this post

(the last comment above is a j/k - no offence intended)

Do you actually BELIEVE all that drivel about reviewers playing games in some special way others don't, and having some rarified skill set "normal people" lack?

I really hope not. But then, I kinda hope so. Cause the latter is a fun idea to laugh at.

 

[Jockey79]

Do you actually BELIEVE all that drivel about reviewers playing games in some special way others don't, and having some rarified skill set "normal people" lack?

I really hope not. But then, I kinda hope so. Cause the latter is a fun idea to laugh at.

There is a massive difference between playing a game for fun and playing for work.
If you cannot understand why, then there is nothing I can really do to help you understand it.

Plus this isn't the thread for that.

This is to laugh at the title, as well all know there will be lots of PvE groups unless FD bring out a real Open-PvE mode.

 

[Darkfyre99]

I gotta be honest here, DB was hugely niaeve about how open would work.

Yes, he was. But based on the original DDF proposal, I thought that someone in Frontier had learned the lessons of Ultima Online, Shadowbane, the hundreds of text MUDs before them, and the many, many analysis of why rampant player-killing can destroy a game, and what can be done about it. Too bad they chose to ignore their own design.

 

[Blackcompany]

There is a massive difference between playing a game for fun and playing for work.
If you cannot understand why, then there is nothing I can really do to help you understand it.

Plus this isn't the thread for that.

This is to laugh at the title, as well all know there will be lots of PvE groups unless FD bring out a real Open-PvE mode.

Now THAT we agree on!

And to be honest I've done Beta testing. For games. REAL Beta testing, not this "pay us for an early preview" crap. Playing a game for work, IS work. And it mostly sucks. So yes, that is different.

My main issue - and I should have specified - was the idea that reviewers have some hidden skill set most people lack. Most reviewers clearly don't. And where they appear to have, it's mostly just a well honed set of skills related to clear, concise communication.

Except for Zero Punctuation. That guy is hilarious.

So yeah, sorry mate. Was having a bit of a laugh at the idea of these supremely wise, highly skilled, elevated and sage like reviewers but didn't really have the time to specify what it was tickled my funny bone.

Thanks for being a sport. Fly safe Commander.

 

[GTwannabe]

Obviously there is demand for a PvE mode. Frontier should make it official, which would eliminate the need for private groups. Ban malcontents to Open.

 

[Jockey79]

Now THAT we agree on!

And to be honest I've done Beta testing. For games. REAL Beta testing, not this "pay us for an early preview" crap. Playing a game for work, IS work. And it mostly sucks. So yes, that is different.

My main issue - and I should have specified - was the idea that reviewers have some hidden skill set most people lack. Most reviewers clearly don't. And where they appear to have, it's mostly just a well honed set of skills related to clear, concise communication.

Except for Zero Punctuation. That guy is hilarious.

So yeah, sorry mate. Was having a bit of a laugh at the idea of these supremely wise, highly skilled, elevated and sage like reviewers but didn't really have the time to specify what it was tickled my funny bone.

Thanks for being a sport. Fly safe Commander.

Gotta +1 because of the mention of Zero Punctuation
Who I'd enjoy a lot more if my children went to bed sooner, so I didn't have to keep pausing the video as they are way too young for that yet

And yea, thinking "supremely wise, highly skilled, elevated and sage like" then thinking of Jim Sterling cracks me up now you mention it
That's going to make me chuckle all night

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

LOL yeah I saw that in hells kitchen, someone tried to refund a beef wellington or something, said it wasn't nice.. He told the waiter to go back to the customer and tell them to f-k off out if they don't like it !

I laughed so hard. There's that awkward moment... you actually feel sorry for the customer who walks out in disgust. You may keep the laughing fanbois, but you won't get new customers that way!

Yeah that kitchen nightmares.. everyone can see see why the thing is going down the pan, apart from the owners thinking they're the bees knees!

Its a slightly flawed example tho. It would be a bit more accurate i would see an advert for "the meat bucket" the best damn steak house in Cambridge then when it opened lots of meat eaters enjoying the foodbut it getting complaints that they need to change direction and cater to vegetarians before the meat eaters.

IF everyone was unanamus t hat a feature was rubbish i would see your point but when a feature is enjoyed by many AND essentially working as promised then .........

 

[Blackcompany]

Gotta +1 because of the mention of Zero Punctuation
Who I'd enjoy a lot more if my children went to bed sooner, so I didn't have to keep pausing the video as they are way too young for that yet

And yea, thinking "supremely wise, highly skilled, elevated and sage like" then thinking of Jim Sterling cracks me up now you mention it
That's going to make me chuckle all night

Yep. That's what got me.

Enjoy the laughs.

 

[Clifra Jones]

No marketable skill used, none gained.

You not serious are you??

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unless you are stating people saying their experiences are out and out liars, (i have my faults but that is not one of them) then the fact is, your experience does not mean others are not true.

instancing, time of play, geography in the real world, and where abouts you play in game as well as your internet and blind luck all affect who you meet.

I do not think Open is a gank fest at all, but I HAVE had poor experiences in open 2 out of the last 3 times i played there.

there was a time i 100% played in open....... that was a long time ago now tho.

Certainly, if you go where other players are you may encounter the the gankers, CGs, engineers etc. but the vast majority of the galaxy so devoid of other player cmdrs. If you do not want to take that risk, the play in solo or a group.

His point was that many PVErs here make it out like you cannot survive 10 minute in open.

 

[Roland2]

Also you have to go with a balance of what is 'trending' and what the userbase wants. It's imperative in more niche games that you listen to the players. The players KNOW what they want to see. The players KNOW what daft ideas are (telepresence?) that go against the very things that make the game attractive. The players KNOW how much they're willing to pay, how much time they're spending on things in game. The players KNOW if something is killing the game with a wrecking ball.

Sure the developers know how to make a game. That's not in question. BUT in lieu of keeping the balance between wright, wrong, acceptable, unacceptable, there's no better source of data than the players.

Restaurateur: We now sell this perfect soup.
Customer: It's way too salty
Restaurateur: No it isn't this is exactly how we want it.
Customer: It's way too salty
Restaurateur: We're the experts, and we say it's perfect.
Next customer: OMG this soup is g salty, yuk, want money back.
Restaurateur: Why is everyone saying it's salty? We followed the business model and ingredient list perfectly
Customer: It's still too salty.
Restaurateur: I'm sorry, it's the way it is.
Customer: OK fine, see ya. Thanks for my refund.
Restaurateur: How come everyone is complaining about the soup?
Another customer: Why don't you just reduce the salt?
Restaurateur: Because this soup is the way we developed it...

Who's wrong? Customer for complaining, or the Restaurateur for simply not listening to many of the customers?

The customer may not know how to make soup, but they know if it's too salty!

Except in ED's case, the customers (players) don't all agree, so FD can just do what they want, knowing some will like it and some will hate it. To use your example, its more like:
Restaurateur: We now sell this perfect soup.
Customer: It's way too salty
Restaurateur: No it isn't this is exactly how we want it.
Customer: It needs more pepper.
Restaurateur: We're the experts, and we say it's perfect.
Next customer: OMG this soup is good, can I have more.
Restaurateur: We followed the business model and ingredient list perfectly
Customer: It's still too salty.
Restaurateur: I'm sorry, it's the way it is.
Customer: OK fine, see ya. Thanks for my refund.
Restaurateur: How come some people are complaining about the soup?
Another customer: Because no one can agree.
Restaurateur: This soup is the way we developed it...

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You not serious are you??

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Certainly, if you go where other players are you may encounter the the gankers, CGs, engineers etc. but the vast majority of the galaxy so devoid of other player cmdrs. If you do not want to take that risk, the play in solo or a group.

His point was that many PVErs here make it out like you cannot survive 10 minute in open.

"if you go where other players are you may encounter the the gankers" If you're not going where other players are, why play in Open? That's the whole reason for having groups, you can go where other plays are, and not encounter the gankers.