PVP/Crime Consequences required levels (Answers from PVE players please.)

[Majinvash]

Must have missed that - my apologies.



See, that MIGHT work if this were an arena or small game... but it's not. It's got 40 billions stars and it's thousands of thousands of lightyears across. Plus it assumes that the whole game revolves around combat rather than that just being one of 4 main parts of it. It's also the same laughable argument that the NRA uses - "The only thing that's gonna stop people shooting each other is if we have more guns!" Yeah, right, coz that's worked so well up to this point.



See again, it's hard to take this seriously when you'd just described yourself as pretty much a seal clubber in the earlier posting. How much challenge IS that?

It's also hard to take you seriously when everyone's advocating "step up security, put in real policing" etc and you're arguing against it. It sounds like you DON'T want a challenge, you want PC fish in a barrel.

At a certain point, it is difficult to work out if you are just trolling me or just are wanting to argue for arguments sake.

You asked me, what would make to STOP.

I tell you, which I put very nicely and even backed up with a thread with many many replies and counter arguments.

You tell me it’s wrong!!

How am I meant to respond to that?

I used to play this game a lot, now I just play a few hours a week.
I have died once in the last month, purely due to a high waking malfunction/error on my part.

Last night I went into the Beta Hydri CG ALONE in my Corvette and after Multiple interdictions by full wings, the managed to get my shields down once before I low waked out. One of the wings contained a Corvette which I destroyed and then high waked out, even though there was a Cutter with it.
I was at no time at risk of losing my ship because I am REALLY good at this game. ( Which I learned in Open )
Would I or half of the players in that CG be running around in 50million plus rebuy ships if high waking wasn’t so simple.. I doubt it, I certainly wouldn’t.

This isn’t real life, it’s a game. A concept MANY have lost sight of.

You come back and talk about an arena, it’s not. It’s also not realistically 40billions systems to police or protect.
There are a few hundred active systems at best that will see player activity, the majority of the players are found in the bubble.

This whole thread was about what would get people back into Open.
The main reply is we won’t go because it’s not safe.

I point out that the if there is no risk to a PVP player, then any punishment is kind of redundant.
And there has been some amazing punishments and mechanics discussed. If the PVP player VERY rarely dies, how effective are they?

I give you a way that would heavily cripple my antics and you try to find ways to make out I just want to shoot fish in a barrel.

Fortunately my overpaid job, is quiet as balls today. So this is helping fill my time.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Jypson]

That's what Im actually struggling with that..

I think.. and I hope not.. they should just have one mode = Open... with all that above..
so there's no other choice for soloer but to 'meet' people.. and no other choice for criminal wannabe but to play 'smart'..


btw, endless spawning security/cops/police IS the definition of security.. not immersion breaking..

If that was the case, I wouldn't have bought the game. If they were to change to that, I would stop playing. I have no interest in multiplayer interactive games. However, this is just one players opinion.

 

[Sandmann]

At a certain point, it is difficult to work out if you are just trolling me or just are wanting to argue for arguments sake.

You asked me, what would make to STOP.

I tell you, which I put very nicely and even backed up with a thread with many many replies and counter arguments.

You tell me it’s wrong!!

Sorry, didn't mean for you to get that it's "wrong"... meant for you to get that it's "impractical and not feasible within the game's design"

I'm happy to accept that this - if it were actually achievable the way you envision - would have an impact upon you. It's not really a possibility however since (just one of many reasons) it'd mean finding a bunch of people who were willing to be online often enough and play the "good guy" often enough and well enough at the right places. It's also a bit like exchanging one tyrant for another, since power corrupts.

So let me re-phrase... without relying on another gang of armed thugs to prevent the first gang of armed thugs from clubbing trade-seals at will, and within the likely parameters of what FDev are capable and willing to do, and remembering that they're not willing to stray too far from their original vision... with all THAT in mind, what could they put in that would stop you behaving the way you describe, without changing the game's structure overly?

 

[Majinvash]

Sorry, didn't mean for you to get that it's "wrong"... meant for you to get that it's "impractical and not feasible within the game's design"

I'm happy to accept that this - if it were actually achievable the way you envision - would have an impact upon you. It's not really a possibility however since (just one of many reasons) it'd mean finding a bunch of people who were willing to be online often enough and play the "good guy" often enough and well enough at the right places. It's also a bit like exchanging one tyrant for another, since power corrupts.

So let me re-phrase... without relying on another gang of armed thugs to prevent the first gang of armed thugs from clubbing trade-seals at will, and within the likely parameters of what FDev are capable and willing to do, and remembering that they're not willing to stray too far from their original vision... with all THAT in mind, what could they put in that would stop you behaving the way you describe, without changing the game's structure overly?

Not playing your circle game.
Its been said and FD could do what ever they wanted to change this game so it lasts it's 10years.
They are effectively GOD

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Sandmann]

Not playing your circle game.
Its been said and FD could do what ever they wanted to change this game so it lasts it's 10years.
They are effectively GOD

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

I choose to interpret that as tacit admission that nothing feasible in the way of crime & consequence measures is likely to alter your behaviour one little bit but that you don't want to admit it.

 

[Majinvash]

I choose to interpret that as tacit admission that nothing feasible in the way of crime & consequence measures is likely to alter your behaviour one little bit but that you don't want to admit it.

Honestly, do you have trouble reading?

As short and as basic as possible.

All the punishments in the game, up to and including removal of insurance, being blocked from every port except Anarchy ones, almost instant spawning gangs of police cutters.
Will not make any difference is the Player killer has no fear of actually being killed because escape is so blissfully easy.

If you do not understand that, I am not sure how much more I can help you.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Roken]

A great punishment would be Forced Cargo Haulage.

When you respawn all your stuff is confiscated.
Using a hauler, you then have to transport a number tonnes of some low value commodity between two systems to get it back, during which you can be challenging content for someone else.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Will not make any difference is the Player killer has no fear of actually being killed because escape is so blissfully easy.

I expect that if the PKer is pro-actively interdicted, soon after arriving in-system, by a Wing of NPC anti-PK forces before the PKer manages to PK it may make a difference.

 

[Majinvash]

I expect that if the PKer is pro-actively interdicted, soon after arriving in-system, by a Wing of NPC anti-PK forces before the PKer manages to PK it may make a difference.

If FD created NPC's with godlike abilities that can blast through any player killers shields and kill them in 30 seconds, you have a solution.

Robert, you have just saved Elite

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Robert Maynard]

If FD created NPC's with godlike abilities that can blast through any player killers shields and kill them in 30 seconds, you have a solution.

While Frontier can, without doubt, create NPCs that can one-shot any player - I don't expect them to.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

I expect that if the PKer is pro-actively interdicted, soon after arriving in-system, by a Wing of NPC anti-PK forces before the PKer manages to PK it may make a difference.

Not really - If he is as good as he claims then the only real "threat" to him are other players of equal skill level.

As things stand you can easily high wake out and save yourself ...

Problem with tinkering with the high wake mechanism is that you're likely to fail and need to fight, and other players who are not as good (ie the majority of us) would just have to die ..

It's like SJA and her minions : she can make them as good as she wants, but if they're too good then fewer and fewer people will enjoy the experience.

It could just be as simple as him outgrowing ED. (said with respect cos whilst I don't agree with a lot of his actions [mobius] and constant taunting on the forums I have watched his stream and he's very good compared to me )

 

[Julio Montega]

I expect that if the PKer is pro-actively interdicted, soon after arriving in-system, by a Wing of NPC anti-PK forces before the PKer manages to PK it may make a difference.

Pro-active interdiction? That'd be o.k. if it is believable and immersive.
A known wanted criminal in a sector that he often frequents should be checked by the police,
since they are still looking for him.
Remember release?
We had that in some manner, with not waning bounties (perma bounties up till death),
but they got removed.
If the NPCs adhere to the same rules players have to (interdiction game, scanning the ID),
then it's o.k. but concord, no please.

 

[sewerratuk]

As things stand you can easily high wake out and save yourself ...

I think this is the point RM is getting at.
PKer will be forced out of the system and every time they enter they will get interdicted by NPC's and possibly chain interdicted which can fast become boring if you are looking for PVP

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

I am not PvE, got bored killing NPCs a while ago already.
I have switched months ago to full time PvP. I don't grief but seek good fight against any players with high rank and ship outfitted for combat. A few exceptions of course.
I don't target newbies, traders, miners or even "real" pirates.

I find that the current bounties make no sense. They are peanuts and do not last long enough to get stacked.
Once, I met A LOT of commanders at a popular bounty farming spot. It was a rampage and I felt almost like a psycho after killing around 30 different commanders, some of them several times.
And I ended up with just over 170k bounty on my head...

Seriously, taking into account that the rebuy of my ship is 3.5 millions, and that you get easily 100-300k by taking down an Anaconda at a RES, neither would that kind of bounty hurt my credit balance nor interest any PvP bounty hunter.
A week later, it turned into dormant, then vanish the next week. And when i came back to the spot, I was clear as snow white.

Bounties for killing players should be 5 to 10 times higher.
They should also remain dormant for a month.
As a player killer, I would be fine with that, and enjoy to PvP bounty hunt (even against "real" pirate). So far, the largest bounty I managed to collect was 85k, and most of my opponents have only 5-25k on their head...

EDIT: last but not least, it should be possible to cash-in the bounties from the transaction panel directly (let's say at 25-50% value decreased, and to drop at a nav beacon for instance). Even if I would manage to get several vouchers above 100k, I would not travel across different points of the bubble and land at different stations to collect them.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

...

This should be addressed by FD in the next patch.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

This should be addressed by FD in the next patch.

Well, I have heard that one before, back when 1.3 was going to be released.
Instead of making space more safe, they allowed everybody to commit murder anywhere they want, and gave the final blow to PvP bounty hunting.
I am not holding my breathe anymore.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Well, I have heard that one before, back when 1.3 was going to be released.
Instead of making space more sure, they allowed everybody to commit murder anywhere they want, and gave the final blow to PvP bounty hunting.
I am not holding my breathe anymore.

1.3 broke consequences, in my opinion. The "Major Faction bounties may come later" has not yet materialised.

 

[dreamer1986]

I would prefer if the penalty for murder is big enough to encourage pirates to do their best to destroy the cargo hatch to get the loot, while completely avoiding the destruction of player ships. I moved to Mobius because I had a really bad experience with someone, that attacked and destroyed me even if I had a low hull and no cargo, just because he could, and his penalty wasn't big, while I had to pay millions for the rebuy. If I would be in Open now I would risk an 8 million rebuy, and for what, just for a murderer to "have fun"? Good luck with that.

 

[Sandmann]

Honestly, do you have trouble reading?

As short and as basic as possible.

All the punishments in the game, up to and including removal of insurance, being blocked from every port except Anarchy ones, almost instant spawning gangs of police cutters.
Will not make any difference is the Player killer has no fear of actually being killed because escape is so blissfully easy.

If you do not understand that, I am not sure how much more I can help you.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

So you're saying that it doesn't matter how tough, how many, or how quickly the npc cops respond you'll still just breeze away from them?

 

[Majinvash]

1.3 broke consequences, in my opinion. The "Major Faction bounties may come later" has not yet materialised.

Back in the good old days, I ran around with a 10 million plus bounty in alliance space. Most of the time in my Clipper.
It was only claimed twice, both times when I was hunting bounty hunters in a RES site. ( Lore wise, Pirates dont like bounty hunters )
Any fight I was losing, I ran from or high waked out.

Geoffrey I can often be found around Cemiese where I have a 1 million bounty, if you want to have a crack?

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

So you're saying that it doesn't matter how tough, how many, or how quickly the npc cops respond you'll still just breeze away from them?

The answer to that exact question has been posted VERY recently.

Reading... It's awesome

Majinvash
The Voice of Open