Quality of Life Improvement: Input LAT/LON Co-ords and have a Surface Waypoint appear, similar to the surface scan mission Waypoint.

[Crank Larson]

It doesn't really matter whether or not people find something "fun".

Of course. Everyone loves games that aren't fun, I forgot.

Finding a location on a planet is not a great skill. It is merely an irritation. There is no advantage whether someone finds that location manually or by using a route finder - both players will still find the location.

 

[Achibot]

For the record, I checked out of this argument when you said games don't have to be fun. I already have a job and I have absolutely no wish to spend any more of my time arguing with you about why this should be my second one.

 

[Heater]

it would be nice, but to be honest,
it's not that difficult to do...
Latitude: Position property defined by the number of degrees north or south of the equator, varies from 0° to 90°.
Longitude: Position property defined by the number of degrees east or west of the prime meridian, varies from 0° to 180°.
Position: Latitude first and longitude second.

 

[Stealthie]

Ok, so to use your (frankly not great) examples, why does Flight Assist exist at all? By your logic, shouldn't everyone be forced to learn to play the game without it because it dumbs down flying, isn't actually required to move your ship and compensates for lack of skill? As for weapons that aim themselves, simply outrageous, ruining the skill of combat.

It's probably unwise to assume everybody thinks the same way you do.

I'm not interested in banning anything, or insisting something is implemented.
I'm simply pointing out that being willing and able to do things should be yield rewards that others don't receive.

If you are able to use FA Off and fixed weapons you do better in combat than those who can't.
If you have a firm grasp of the game's economics you'll earn more credits than somebody who doesn't.
If you are willing to learn about the geology and astronomy of the game you will find it easier to locate mat's, you will earn more from mining and you will earn more from exploring than somebody who has not.

And, by the same token, somebody who is willing to navigate manually will experience things on a planet surface that those who aren't will miss out on.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

it would be nice, but to be honest,
it's not that difficult to do...
Latitude: Position property defined by the number of degrees north or south of the equator, varies from 0° to 90°.
Longitude: Position property defined by the number of degrees east or west of the prime meridian, varies from 0° to 180°.
Position: Latitude first and longitude second.

You're not saying anything which hasn't already been said in this thread earlier, and for which counterpoints have already been made.

To wit: whether you find navigation is easy or not using your methodology is not the point. The point is, within the game, no one should have to do it by this method, because even in this primitive time period, we already have ways of marking a destination point electronically and pointing various types of vehicles towards that point - I imagine that in the 3300's, if the human race is still around by then, we'd have the technology to input a LAT and a LON coordinate to mark a point on a planet's surface with which to aim for.

 

[Stealthie]

Of course. Everyone loves games that aren't fun, I forgot.

For the record, I checked out of this argument when you said games don't have to be fun.

For the record, I tend to check out of a discussion when people are forced to misrepresent what other people have said in order to retain the credibility of their argument.

I didn't say "games don't have to be fun".

What I said was that it doesn't matter whether people find something "fun".

And that is perfectly true.

If I decide that I don't like to be attacked by other players, does that mean it's reasonable for me to demand it's removed from the game?
I don't find it "fun" so surely that's a reasonable argument?
According to you guys, at least.

 

[NewBlacksmurf]

Now that I play more I agree with this suggestion at least to some new opportunity like new scanners that enable this or something. Maybe available via advanced +detailed scanners only

 

[Crank Larson]

If I decide that I don't like to be attacked by other players, does that mean it's reasonable for me to demand it's removed from the game?
I don't find it "fun" so surely that's a reasonable argument?
According to you guys, at least.

We aren't arguing for anything to be removed from the game. We'd like something to be added. You don't have to use it, just like you don't have to get involved in PvP.

 

[Vasea Azure]

I have no idea why would anyone be oppose the idea of marking once discovered coordinates. It makes more sense than anything and I`m baffled that we dont have it yet. Looking forward for QoL improvements, planetary marks makes a perfect candidate for this update.

 

[Stealthie]

We aren't arguing for anything to be removed from the game. We'd like something to be added. You don't have to use it, just like you don't have to get involved in PvP.

And you don't have to land at random locations on planet surfaces.

If you're not willing or able to follow coordinates, just keep on following POIs down to planetary bases.
You're not missing out on much.

 

[Vasea Azure]

And you don't have to land at random locations on planet surfaces.

If you're not willing or able to follow coordinates, just keep on following POIs down to planetary bases.
You're not missing out on much.

Do you also think we should scan once visited system again every time we enter it? If I located and landed at planet location (alien base for example) why I should do the same boring and tedious search next time I want to visit? It does not make any sense.

 

[777Driver]

And, by the same token, somebody who is willing to navigate manually will experience things on a planet surface that those who aren't will miss out on.

Am finding it difficult to understand the logic behind this statement. Planetary navigation is incredibly tedious & basic, you can't possibly compare it to learning FA-OFF or Gaining knowledge about the games economics or BGS.

The devs tend to do the minimum when adding a new feature, then slowly build on it. We don't need planetary waypoints or built in Rhumb line calculators, in just the same way we don't need 20,000LY route plotters. The ability to manually plot waypoints or auto calculate rhumb lines would be a Qol feature, because manually calculating is tedious.

I certainly wouldn't expect people who traverse the galaxy one jump at a time through the left navigation panel be rewarded more than those who plot a route direct to the destination via a bookmark.

 

[Stealthie]

Now that I play more I agree with this suggestion at least to some new opportunity like new scanners that enable this or something. Maybe available via advanced +detailed scanners only

See, again this is the sort of thing I would be perfectly happy with.[up]

Set it up so that if you've got a DSS installed, you get planetary waypoints that can be followed.
It makes sense that the DSS would provide some additional functionality to surface navigation and it means that those who want to navigate manually will have an extra free slot to use for other things.

I suggested the same thing ages ago and it was met by screeches of indignation from those who just want their own way. [sad]

 

[Crank Larson]

See, again this is the sort of thing I would be perfectly happy with.[up]

I'm surprised, given your earlier objections. But I would also be happy with such a solution. It seems that we can find agreement somewhere...

 

[Stealthie]

Do you also think we should scan once visited system again every time we enter it? If I located and landed at planet location (alien base for example) why I should do the same boring and tedious search next time I want to visit? It does not make any sense.

If everybody had to scan a system upon entering it, I suppose there might be people out there with an exceptional sense of spacial awareness and a thorough grasp of orbital mechanics and that'd give them an advantage.
And if those people argued against changing the game to make it easier for everybody else, I guess I'd understand their reluctance to have the game "dumbed down" to suit everybody else.

As I said, a few posts ago, i wouldn't mind if POIs were added at surface locations once you'd already visited them though.

What I do object to is the game being dumbed-down so that there's absolutely no benefit to having the willingness and ability to follow coordinates manually.

 

[Stealthie]

I'm surprised, given your earlier objections. But I would also be happy with such a solution. It seems that we can find agreement somewhere...

From earlier in this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ints-PLEASE!?p=5787001&viewfull=1#post5787001

As I said then, the Docking Computer makes a fairly good comparison.
If you want to use a DC, either for convenience or because you struggle to land a ship, you "waste" a slot by fitting it.
There's a trade-off which creates a choice for players, and an advantage for those who are willing to do without it.

As long as there's some benefit to being willing to follow coordinates rather than use the "idiot-proof" method, I'm happy. [up]

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

What I do object to is the game being dumbed-down so that there's absolutely no benefit to having the willingness and ability to follow coordinates manually.

Please explain this.

What's dumbing down about being able to type in a LAT/LON coordinate and then following a marker for that on a planet surface?

That's not dumbing down, it's smartening up fer goodness sake!

There is no gameplay value whatsoever in frowning at your current LAT/LON position and trying to work out how to reach a destination position. It's not manly to be able to do such - anyone can. I can.

There is plenty of value in adding such a simple thing though - input LAT/LON, aim for that position. It's a small thing, but would be a massive quality of life addition for everyone who wanted to utilise it - those who prefer the manly way could simply choose not to enter a destination position and carry on, and feel good about themselves.

The current lack of such a QoL addition is simply nothing more than a horrible, off-putting time-sink.

And lastly, I took the time and effort of coding a bearing calculator into Captain's Log. Not only that, it calculates distance over the planet surface as well. This type of feature isn't difficult to do (once you learn how to code it), and the game already has the code to do such: tie the input of a LAT/LON coordinate to the same code which marks a surface recovery mission waypoint.

 

[Stealthie]

Please explain this.

What's dumbing down about being able to type in a LAT/LON coordinate and then following a marker for that on a planet surface?

That's not dumbing down, it's smartening up fer goodness sake!

I'm struggling to take that question seriously TBH.

You really don't see how just typing in coordinates and then following a marker down to the surface is "dumbing down" the game compared to having to manually fly your ship to a given location?

Would you consider an autopilot to be "dumbing down" the game or "smartening up"?
How about turrets that do the same damage as fixed weapons?
How about a built-in docking computer?

Bottom line is that often "smartening up" the technology within a game certainly does "dumb down" the actual game, itself.

Course, as I've already said, I'd be perfectly happy with that IF it was a feature of the DSS.
Type coordinates into a DSS and you can follow 'em down to the surface.
Forego the DSS, manually navigate to your destination and you've got an extra slot available for something else. [up]

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I'm struggling to take that question seriously TBH.

You really don't see how just typing in coordinates and then following a marker down to the surface is "dumbing down" the game compared to having to manually fly your ship to a given location?

Would you consider an autopilot to be "dumbing down" the game or "smartening up"?
How about turrets that do the same damage as fixed weapons?
How about a built-in docking computer?

Bottom line is that often "smartening up" the technology within a game certainly does "dumb down" the actual game, itself.

Course, as I've already said, I'd be perfectly happy with that IF it was a feature of the DSS.
Type coordinates into a DSS and you can follow 'em down to the surface.
Forego the DSS, manually navigate to your destination and you've got an extra slot available for something else. [up]

Nope. I don't see that as dumbing down at all. You may as well tell the real-world military of this world to go back to using sextants and knotted rope.

Sure, this isn't the real world - it's a game. A game is meant to be worth your valuable life time to play. Spending time navigating to a LAT/LON point without aid is an unecessary waste of time and also makes for unneeded frustration.

One or two posters in this thread have already stated they don't bother with some game content because for them it's a real bane to find themselves at the correct place on a planet surface - I see that as dev effort to add content gone to waste.

I disagree with the DSS idea. This should be standard functionality built into your ship's computer. Not only that, there already exists code within the game to implement such.

 

[Stealthie]

I disagree with the DSS idea. This should be standard functionality built into your ship's computer. Not only that, there already exists code within the game to implement such.

I disagree with that and I guess whoever's left that functionality dormant does too.