I think it was explained to you in first day when you came here. So why are you here?
Question about ED player goals
- Thread starter Riedquat
- Start date
I think it was explained to you in first day when you came here. So why are you here?
You've often quoted World of Tanks as an exemplar of how to do a multiplayer game right. The game involves shooting each other, person to person, in tanks. The "endgame" is a clan-based conflict where you... guess what? Yes, that's right, you shoot each other , person to person, in tanks. You don't have overlords controlling tank armies, you don't control countries as an individual, you're still just one guy in a tank.
If ED adds in that sort of ending, where core gameplay is maintained and extended (rather than changed) then that's a fair deal... and compares well to your cherished WoT, no?
Territory holding mechanics won't work in a game of Elites size. In Eve Online they work well due to the limited resources and finite number of systems players are crammed in to. In Elite there will most likely be infinite resources and there is already an infinite number of systems (or at least far too many to bother fighting over a handful someone 'owns'). Even if you could build an Empire of 10,000 systems, no one will care since its an insignificant number compared to 4 billion solar systems and literally trillions of planets this game will have.
I think if Elite adopted Eve-like features all we'd see pop up is patches of lonely and empty 1-man dictatorships that no one could care less about since there are a billion unclaimed and resource rich ones elsewhere to enjoy. In any case they would be impossible to police or blockade since there are no artificial choke points corralling players and forcing them to interact. Yes FD can force people to fight over stuff (just like CCP do in Eve), but then you sort of lose that sandbox element.
Anyway, there's nothing stopping anyone flying out to the tip of the Perseus arm and claiming it for themselves, whether the mechanics are there or not.
But don't get me wrong, I do like the idea of owning territory in games, they open the game up to all sorts of adventures and interesting events, but in a game the size of this its nonsensical. Just as it would be in real life if we had access to abundant resources and unlimited land, we would no longer fight wars over it, and instead find other reasons to kill each other.
Elite is unique in so far as nothing has ever come close to matching it scale. It'll be the largest game world ever devised by several thousand orders of magnitude - and it'll get exponentially larger when planetary landing and exploration is added. So new 'end games' need to be thought up if people really want them, but they have to stem from a different mindset than what we've seen before in games of limited scope and finite boundaries.
I think if Elite adopted Eve-like features all we'd see pop up is patches of lonely and empty 1-man dictatorships that no one could care less about since there are a billion unclaimed and resource rich ones elsewhere to enjoy. In any case they would be impossible to police or blockade since there are no artificial choke points corralling players and forcing them to interact. Yes FD can force people to fight over stuff (just like CCP do in Eve), but then you sort of lose that sandbox element.
Anyway, there's nothing stopping anyone flying out to the tip of the Perseus arm and claiming it for themselves, whether the mechanics are there or not.
But don't get me wrong, I do like the idea of owning territory in games, they open the game up to all sorts of adventures and interesting events, but in a game the size of this its nonsensical. Just as it would be in real life if we had access to abundant resources and unlimited land, we would no longer fight wars over it, and instead find other reasons to kill each other.
Elite is unique in so far as nothing has ever come close to matching it scale. It'll be the largest game world ever devised by several thousand orders of magnitude - and it'll get exponentially larger when planetary landing and exploration is added. So new 'end games' need to be thought up if people really want them, but they have to stem from a different mindset than what we've seen before in games of limited scope and finite boundaries.
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Please don't make this game to much like WoT, I've been playing that since the very start and while it is a good game and can be fun with a bunch of mates in a clan it's a total nightmare 90% of the time in public battles.
"End game" clan wars isn't that great either, a few large powerful clans hold all the best land and it's almost impossible for the smaller guys to get a foot in the door.
In fact it's pretty much the opposite of what I hope Elite will be like where an individual pilot can make his way in the universe without having to bow down and serve a large organisation to have any chance of being successful.
"End game" clan wars isn't that great either, a few large powerful clans hold all the best land and it's almost impossible for the smaller guys to get a foot in the door.
In fact it's pretty much the opposite of what I hope Elite will be like where an individual pilot can make his way in the universe without having to bow down and serve a large organisation to have any chance of being successful.
EvE when it was first released had no "Endgame" content at all. You logged in and you mined, mined some more, mined a bit more and then bought a better ship. Then they started adding extra content to keep players occupied. Missions (badly implemented at first), new ships, new technical plans etc.
For those of us who played EvE at the start we did the novel thing that the game allowed us to do. We created our own "endgame". This is the beauty of a sandbox game, the players got on with finding their own amusement while waiting for CCP to put something more interesting in.
I much preferred allowing the players to create the playing field than following a scripted and narrow "endgame" dictated by the developer. Everyone has their own goals and expectations from Elite, Fromhell wants something that took CCP well over a year to help implement but only after the players themselves had instigated the start of it on their own.
Fromhell, if there is something you really really want Elite to be then don't at the old timers or the Devs for not following your vision. Do what the early EvE players did, take the game as it was when released and make the content yourself. You'll get more enjoyment out of pioneering something that may well end up becoming part of the game at a later date.
Everything needs a place to start, everything needs a place to go and everything needs a place to stop. Blindly trying to insist on X,Y or Z to be included because you say so doesn't make it happen. Sometimes, you have to go out and prove that it will happen, so that it can happen.
For those of us who played EvE at the start we did the novel thing that the game allowed us to do. We created our own "endgame". This is the beauty of a sandbox game, the players got on with finding their own amusement while waiting for CCP to put something more interesting in.
I much preferred allowing the players to create the playing field than following a scripted and narrow "endgame" dictated by the developer. Everyone has their own goals and expectations from Elite, Fromhell wants something that took CCP well over a year to help implement but only after the players themselves had instigated the start of it on their own.
Fromhell, if there is something you really really want Elite to be then don't at the old timers or the Devs for not following your vision. Do what the early EvE players did, take the game as it was when released and make the content yourself. You'll get more enjoyment out of pioneering something that may well end up becoming part of the game at a later date.
Everything needs a place to start, everything needs a place to go and everything needs a place to stop. Blindly trying to insist on X,Y or Z to be included because you say so doesn't make it happen. Sometimes, you have to go out and prove that it will happen, so that it can happen.
I agree, but you could, for example, annex a section of space (there's a hell of a lot of it after all!) so that people could engage in an ongoing territory war there. Something like that would not affect the core game, or all the other players not interested - they just wouldn't go to that "disputed area".
Territory battles won't work in ED if you're allowed to do it anywhere, because people would just move on, who cares if Gimps Anonymous owns 100 systems, there are x billion others to play with. So an area set aside for that would foster the competition (again, only for those interested) and leave everyone else free of it.
If you haven't seen this Dev diary 2 it's worth a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uKD1ap5hsI
Pretty much describes what you are talking about - and sounds good to me.
Wrong, I mentioned WoT only in context of the most successful titles among LoL, TF and DOTA2 which are all PvP driven. At the time people came up with the idea of PvE more profitable than PvP which is plainly wrong.
Also WoT is not a sandbox you know
I've never played Darkfall and only know a bit about about Everquest Next, but I have played a good bit of Eve and a lot of SWG back in the day. I wouldn't say that either Eve or SWG had an endgame as such, as it's all basically a continuation of what you do all along. Neither of those games have an end as such, being as they are completely open-ended.
The same will be true in ED in that missions won't end, situations won't stop changing and you won't run out of universe to explore. There will be options for progression that will keep you going for a long time and, of course, there are some game-changing expansions planned which will keep things moving forward for everyone.
Your concerns about no traditional endgame are completely understandable though, but I think it's fair to say that there are an awful lot of gamers out here who have done the traditional endgame to death and are keen for something different.
Some of us had done the 3 lives and a score thing to death 30 years ago too...
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Wrong, I mentioned WoT only in context of the most successful titles among LoL, TF and DOTA2 which are all PvP driven. At the time people came up with the idea of PvE more profitable than PvP which is plainly wrong.
Also WoT is not a sandbox you know
The point still stands - it's very popular, as you know, and manages that without changing the essence of the game as you play. The endgame is more of the core game, presented slightly differently. Works for WoT, why not for ED?
Ok folks, there is a bit of aggression and argumentative posts creeping into this thread. Reasoned debate is something I don't have a problem with. Constructive criticism of the game is also something I also don't have a problem with. What I do have a problem with is when forum members start to insult on another over holding different views. We can do without this please.
The problem here is people are arguing over concepts that aren't even yet on the radar. Can we let the game be released first before then debating how much the so called end game sucks or doesnt suck?!
This is a game designed to grow, who knows what content, other than planetary landings and EVA etc...
Im all for discussing what options could be cool, but stating that Elite is limited or that players are not thinking outside the box is plain silly. The base game will suit the old school Elite players, but there is plenty being discussed to enhance and grow the game.
Personally i dont believe simply growing the PvP element into faction vs faction over space control does not fit Elite. There are not sectors with finite doorways, its space, open and free. Planets, maybe...
But the game additions should enhance everyone's play. Let players sort out how they sone themselves if that is what they want to do, but i would not recommend that Elite developers steer the game in this direction specifically. Plenty of other games dot his already.
This is a game designed to grow, who knows what content, other than planetary landings and EVA etc...
Im all for discussing what options could be cool, but stating that Elite is limited or that players are not thinking outside the box is plain silly. The base game will suit the old school Elite players, but there is plenty being discussed to enhance and grow the game.
Personally i dont believe simply growing the PvP element into faction vs faction over space control does not fit Elite. There are not sectors with finite doorways, its space, open and free. Planets, maybe...
But the game additions should enhance everyone's play. Let players sort out how they sone themselves if that is what they want to do, but i would not recommend that Elite developers steer the game in this direction specifically. Plenty of other games dot his already.
So what if you amass billions of credits, military ranks, multiple ships, etc. You bored? How about starting again and doing something different? Fed up of easy kills in a spanky upgraded ship? Sell it and get a real crappy ship with lowest level lasers and really test your skills.
You're limited by your imagination.
You're limited by your imagination.
I am struggling to find a polite way to point out the irony here.
I will think on it some more.
When I asked the question I wasn't in anyway suggesting it was bad because there was no defined 'endgame'.
I'm generally pretty bad at completing games anyway, so i wouldn't qualify to suggest that.
I love open ended games which go on forever and that are different every time you play them and from what I have researched since starting this thread is that there is a LOT to do , more than I could ever hope of doing.
I'm generally pretty bad at completing games anyway, so i wouldn't qualify to suggest that.
I love open ended games which go on forever and that are different every time you play them and from what I have researched since starting this thread is that there is a LOT to do , more than I could ever hope of doing.
There's probably multiple end games in Elite. One of mine is to reach the center of the galaxy with my explorer character (one day). Another is to become rich beyond my wildest dreams with my trader character and set up scavenger hunts and the great space race, with me putting up the prize money. Another is to become a feared bounty hunter.
I'll probably have a different end game goal every year.
@ianw and Zieman
Thanks for those links, guys. I do remember seeing the DDF page now (probably where I picked up the term "injected events" in the first place) but amazingly Dev Diary 2 is new to me! I must have skipped it when looking at the diaries previously. Yay, a new video!
Thanks for those links, guys. I do remember seeing the DDF page now (probably where I picked up the term "injected events" in the first place) but amazingly Dev Diary 2 is new to me! I must have skipped it when looking at the diaries previously. Yay, a new video!