Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

[CMDR Cknarf]

Actually, it's not too difficult to survive a gank in a completely unengineered ship.

It really isn't, so long as you don't goof around. It'll cost you some cargo space, but you can make it work, as high waking is OP.

In fact, I did a little science a couple years back. I took a completely unegineered Python (Just a 5a shield generator and some shield boosters, if I remember correctly.) to Shinrarta, and survived three separate attempts to destroy me, dying only on the fourth one-- this was low-waking on a pair of Engineered FDLs, too. Chain interdictions.

Had I high waked the first time, I would have easily survived, but I just wanted to see exactly how much it would take. I had three chances to do it right.

Of course, engineers are preferred. They allow you to run a smaller shield, less hull reinforcement, and still have equal or better defenses vs an unengineered craft. Even low level engineering is better than none at all.

 

[Danquememe]

It really isn't, so long as you don't goof around. It'll cost you some cargo space, but you can make it work, as high waking is OP.

In fact, I did a little science a couple years back. I took a completely unegineered Python (Just a 5a shield generator and some shield boosters, if I remember correctly.) to Shinrarta, and survived three separate attempts to destroy me, dying only on the fourth one-- this was low-waking on a pair of Engineered FDLs, too. Chain interdictions.

Had I high waked the first time, I would have easily survived, but I just wanted to see exactly how much it would take. I had three chances to do it right.

Of course, engineers are preferred. They allow you to run a smaller shield, less hull reinforcement, and still have equal or better defenses vs an unengineered craft. Even low level engineering is better than none at all.

Your reply here, in a nutshell, speaks to the vast majority of PVP-focused players I've come across. Completely willing to help newbies figure out these aspects of the game, so they can enjoy themselves in Open with confidence.

It's very rough and tumble, and it sucks for people who aren't looking for that but are looking for emergent co-op experiences. But for whatever reason, this is the way FDev made the game and its game modes, and we have to make the most of it. At least plenty of PVP players are eager and willing to share this kind of info with other players.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Your reply here, in a nutshell, speaks to the vast majority of PVP-focused players I've come across. Completely willing to help newbies figure out these aspects of the game, so they can enjoy themselves in Open with confidence.

It's very rough and tumble, and it sucks for people who aren't looking for that but are looking for emergent co-op experiences. But for whatever reason, this is the way FDev made the game and its game modes, and we have to make the most of it. At least plenty of PVP players are eager and willing to share this kind of info with other players.

We understand that aspect of the game better than pretty much everyone, even the devs in many cases. Offense, defense, we've tested nearly everything. We know what's worth using, what isn't, and often have the data to prove it. If one of us doesn't know, we often know someone who does. We know what ships are capable of, whether they're bone stock, engineered to the max, or somewhere inbetween.

We have solid, tested-and-true advice, and are willing to share.

Unfortunately, here on the fourms, feelings take precedence over facts.

 

[Brrokk]

We understand that aspect of the game better than pretty much everyone, even the devs in many cases. Offense, defense, we've tested nearly everything. We know what's worth using, what isn't, and often have the data to prove it. If one of us doesn't know, we often know someone who does. We know what ships are capable of, whether they're bone stock, engineered to the max, or somewhere inbetween.

We have solid, tested-and-true advice, and are willing to share.

Unfortunately, here on the fourms, feelings take precedence over facts.

I might be one with a foot in both camps who can meet you halfway. The PvP advice is a nice offer and I hope those who are interested avail themselves of it and enjoy doing so. I think you have to remember, though, that to some of us ED simply isn't a combat game. Whether it should be could be debated, but it just isn't. Many solve this by using Solo but some (me included) still want social interaction. That's why it's so irksome that a mode is missing from the game, and I and you both have to use Open with our contradictory requirements.

Yes, I can do combat, and (more likely) I can escape from combat, but it's just not what I want to use my game time doing.

Understanding is needed all round. My experience is that it's more likely to be found actually in the game than in the forum.

 

[Kelster87]

I'm an Explorer, I fly a ship that is completely inappropriate for combat, no guns, no defences, no shield. I do this because this is the build I need to explore the region of space I'm poking around in, stars are not so plentiful and I need the range.. I don't need any of those things except maybe for the 5-10 minutes I have to deal with populated systems before I deliver my data - after delivery, you can blow me up and all that will happen is I'll think you are a waste of space; attacking me would provide zero challenge, so why do it?

I might be one with a foot in both camps who can meet you halfway. The PvP advice is a nice offer and I hope those who are interested avail themselves of it and enjoy doing so. I think you have to remember, though, that to some of us ED simply isn't a combat game. Whether it should be could be debated, but it just isn't. Many solve this by using Solo but some (me included) still want social interaction. That's why it's so irksome that a mode is missing from the game, and I and you both have to use Open with our contradictory requirements.

And that seems to be the issue. Not all of us view this as a combat game, the are some that view combat as distasteful, even. And I'm really not sure how to take being told to play how I want, but remember to pack stuff to accommodate their playstyle. Why should I sacrifice my own playstyle for someone else's?

Yes, I can do combat, and (more likely) I can escape from combat, but it's just not what I want to use my game time doing.

Sums it up for me nicely.

Understanding is needed all round. My experience is that it's more likely to be found actually in the game than in the forum.

More likely to be found anywhere other than the forum.. lol

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

I’ll agree that the game isn’t solely about combat. You can explore, trade, mine, or even just be a space taxi. You can play for years without ever equipping a weapon. The choice is ultimately up to the player.

That doesn’t change the fact that open play is ultimately anarchy— you can be engaged by any player, at any time, for any reason.
As you mentioned, there are other modes for people who wish to avoid that entirely, which is perfectly fine. Some like the danger, some don’t, it’s preference.

It’s those who make the decision to go into open play, get roughed up, then come here to complain that get on my nerves.

Instead of making use of the resources provided in-game, or advice given here, they demand that the game be changed to suit their needs— the rest of the playerbase be damned.

“Don’t tell me how to play, I’ll play how I want... also, change the game so other people can’t play how they want.“

It doesn’t make any sense to me, doing the same thing, over and over, expecting a change. (Yet, here I am on the forums lol).

Now if you’re one of those guys who willingly flies a paper plane, but acknowledges the risks— I can respect that. Not caring if you blow up is a pretty common theme around the PvP crowd, too. Rebuys are old hat to us. Whether you’re flying a G5 FDL, or a stripped down DBX, taking a rebuy in stride is always admirable.

It’s those who complain, complain, complain, but make no effort to change their approach that irk me.

 

[ethelred]

It's still possible to avoid ganks quads and Dock at a station, you just need to fly smart.

In fact I might be looking for participants to hunt me in a serous of worse and worse ships to see how possible that is.

 

[Brrokk]

...
It’s those who make the decision to go into open play, get roughed up, then come here to complain that get on my nerves.
...
It’s those who complain, complain, complain, but make no effort to change their approach that irk me.

I understand that irritation too. But step back and look: I think it's actually quite a long time since we've seen any complaints in that category. I estimate that we'd have to look back months to find one. I think the aimless discussions about modes and (dare I say it) the offers of help from the PvP side may have actually borne fruit. People at least understand their game choices enough to know that complaining is pointless.

 

[Kelster87]

Yes, I acknowledge the risks of the ship I fly.. I object to being told how to fit it out to accommodate others. Now, I could make a reasoned argument as to why attacking me in that fitout is nothing more than sociopathic behaviour, but I've been warned about such comments in the past. It's a big game, we mostly all play our own way, just like DB always wanted, just a shame that some want everyone to play the same way..

90% of my complaints on this issue would evaporate if there was a decent C&P system.

 

[Chrystoph]

It’s those who complain, complain, complain, but make no effort to change their approach that irk me.

So, you forcing your game play on them is fine, but them demanding their game play be forced on you is not. Hmmm.....

 

[ethelred]

This is a tired arguement.

No one is asking you to change the way you play.

If you want your, let's say sub-optimal, build to survive though you need to learn how to avoid interdictions. We can help with this.

If you want to build give yourself enough time to high wake away, we can help with this.

You don't need to change the way you play, but the outcomes may remain a rebuy screen if you don't.

Finally, no one is forcing you to play on Open if you don't want to.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

ganks quads

Spoiler

As you were.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

So, you forcing your game play on them is fine, but them demanding their game play be forced on you is not. Hmmm.....

How much does complaining add to the health pool of your ship?

Zero.

That's our point.

 

[Riverside]

How much does complaining add to the health pool of your ship?

Zero.

That's our point.

Well it puts places like San Tu and Riedquat at risk of attack too. I try to be polite to everyone, friend or foe. Not everybody tries, and some take offence when I am not equally rude about someone they don't like.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Yes, I acknowledge the risks of the ship I fly.. I object to being told how to fit it out to accommodate others. Now, I could make a reasoned argument as to why attacking me in that fitout is nothing more than sociopathic behaviour, but I've been warned about such comments in the past. It's a big game, we mostly all play our own way, just like DB always wanted, just a shame that some want everyone to play the same way..

90% of my complaints on this issue would evaporate if there was a decent C&P system.

Accommodating others in your context, would mean equipping some stronger defenses... in turn, making it harder for the people you’re supposedly accommodating to kill you... which is potentially denying them what they want (to kill you) in the first place? That’s a rather odd request, if you really think about it. “Equip shields so it’s harder for me to kill you!” What sense does that make, exactly? Sounds more like well-intentioned advice, honestly, instead of a demand that you do so.

Again, combat, PvP or PvE, is entirely optional. Demanding that someone form an interest in either of those against their will is certainly unreasonable. However, simply shooting at another player on a whim is not, as it's been part of the game since release. Being prepared for that sort of thing isn't an awful idea, but nobody is forcing you. It's not like others have access to your account, ships, and outfitting, after all.

I'll agree that C&P could use some changes, but that's for another thread. C&P, as it exists today, is pretty much just an inconvenience for PvP and PvE players alike.

So, you forcing your game play on them is fine, but them demanding their game play be forced on you is not. Hmmm.....

The difference is, I'm not suggesting major changes to the game to accommodate my needs. I'm working with what I was given, and suggesting that others do the same. I cannot force anyone to build a ship, or play a certain way, all I can do is offer input based on experience.

When someone signs into open, they're signing up for the same thing anyone else is-- some people out there just want to shoot you. I've accepted that fact, and am prepared to deal with it, one way or another. If I can do it, so can anyone else, if they really wanted to. I believe in each and every one of you.

How much does complaining add to the health pool of your ship?

Zero.

That's our point.

I love you, Phisto.

 

[Bottom Hat]

Spoiler

As you were.

I was about to look for a gif of a duck laughing as well, but yours is better mate lol!

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

I was about to look for a gif of a duck laughing as well, but yours is better mate lol!

Do you hear Wrex's voice too?

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

attacking me would provide zero challenge, so why do it?
Why should I sacrifice my own playstyle for someone else's?

Why should I sacrifice my playstyle and make everyone play as a lawful just to cater to you? Especially when it would take you maybe an hour to learn how to properly escape a gank.

Whether you like it or not, combat is a major part of this game whether you like it or not and if you don't, the devs have provided solo for you. It's ridiculous took expect everyone to play the way you want to.

And I shoot you in your paper asp because this is a video game and it fun. That's all there is to it.

 

[Bottom Hat]

Do you hear Wrex's voice too?

Absolutely hahaha!

 

[Scurvydog00]

And I shoot you in your paper asp because this is a video game and it fun. That's all there is to it.

I'll never get whats fun about seal clubbing a ship and CMDR a thousand times below your skill level, but you be you I suppose.

As you point out solo is an easy opt out to involuntary PVP which I agree, it's too late in now to change things. But I do think this Dev has left allot of money on the table by choosing not to protect it's player base. A likely guess is many gank victims don't bother complaining on boards, or "gittin gud" they just leave.