Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

[Vasious]

Running into someone and saying hello

That has lead to impromptu wing ups, trading or running missions.

Most memory experiences there was way back in the day, being a tour guide of Maia

This was when before the Full Spectrum Scanner and when not everyone could afford an infinite range Advanced discovery scanner.

So ran into someone looking for the Maia B black hole and I had it on my charts so could lead them to the system by following me in SC

Also a while back there were these things called Community Goals which would draw commanders to a system to work towards a community target of trading or bounty hunting or Conflict zones or mining.

The Mining CGs were the best for a Friday evening impromptu wing up with people to mine and drink and chat.
Good portion of my friends list comes from CGs

 

[Just Paul]

Going to leave that as it's not going anywhere and goes way off topic.


Back to op. I had a similar experience. One of my most memorable moments in my early open carrier was jumping into the old Palin system and everybody was there. Harry and the rest of SDC, Jazod and Co, it was amazing. Couldn't watch it for to long as I got pulled by Neo, but I could escaped. The amount of people at the station and in local chat was crazy. I went to check out the mega ship and some others were there already, so we banded together to kill some bugs. It was some of the most fun I had and made me stay in open. Then I "met" Phisto in the Witch Head and the rest is history.

 

[Marcus Machiavelli]

A new player here, about 6 weeks into my time in Elite. So apologies if this is repetitious, but it's something that's been on my mind.

I'd really like to have some dialogue with players who mainly play in Open, but who get angry / upset when they encounter the sort of "rogue commanders who have betrayed the Pilots Federation" described on the game's website, i.e. gankers and pirates.

Specifically, I'd like to ask: what kind of player interactions are you hoping to experience in Open, if not PVP combat? What are your expectations? Help me understand what you think Open is going to provide?

And most importantly, how often does it actually happen that you have a cooperative (non-PVP), spontaneous emergent experience in Open? Does that actually happen? I honestly don't know.

I've played mostly in Open, and found my group of in-game friends through being ganked. They've since gone on to be my mentors and help me learn the game, unlock engineers, etc. If I wasn't playing in Open, I wouldn't have met them, so I'm grateful I did. But my "introduction" came via interdiction and destruction. It turns out that was a very small price to pay to open a door to a huge amount of progression and expert guidance. I wasn't mad about it at the time, and I'm tremendously grateful now, once I realized just how complex and involved making positive progress in this game can be.

Accepting the friend request from the player with the crazy looking Holo-Me was the smartest thing I did in my first few hours in the game, as it turns out.

My group play in open because the "baddies" make it interesting and dangerous. I think of them like LARP players who are being bad so our game is better. Even if we do not get ganked but we go to busy areas, we are excited and on edge. We never PvP as we suck and would get owned, but man is it fun running away screaming!

 

[CaptainPugwash]

A new player here, about 6 weeks into my time in Elite. So apologies if this is repetitious, but it's something that's been on my mind.

I'd really like to have some dialogue with players who mainly play in Open, but who get angry / upset when they encounter the sort of "rogue commanders who have betrayed the Pilots Federation" described on the game's website, i.e. gankers and pirates.

Specifically, I'd like to ask: what kind of player interactions are you hoping to experience in Open, if not PVP combat? What are your expectations? Help me understand what you think Open is going to provide?

And most importantly, how often does it actually happen that you have a cooperative (non-PVP), spontaneous emergent experience in Open? Does that actually happen? I honestly don't know.

I've played mostly in Open, and found my group of in-game friends through being ganked. They've since gone on to be my mentors and help me learn the game, unlock engineers, etc. If I wasn't playing in Open, I wouldn't have met them, so I'm grateful I did. But my "introduction" came via interdiction and destruction. It turns out that was a very small price to pay to open a door to a huge amount of progression and expert guidance. I wasn't mad about it at the time, and I'm tremendously grateful now, once I realized just how complex and involved making positive progress in this game can be.

Accepting the friend request from the player with the crazy looking Holo-Me was the smartest thing I did in my first few hours in the game, as it turns out.

Firstly, you should be congratulated for how you handled yourself after being ganked. I had no help at all, but then I didn't get ganked at all until I had at least 6 months in the game.

To answer your question: there was no specific interaction I was hoping for, except that if I said 'hello' I would really like a reply (which happens maybe half the time). I would like to see more role-play engagements in general: iif I attack a player aligned to an opposing power they are likely to get angry, then whine about being attacked for no reason, and even state that I should have realised that they only aligned for the PP weapon in the first place. Same thing regarding PvP piracy: it's very difficult to actually get into a negotiation with a trader: most will run and/or combat log, some will just comply, but very few try to roleplay.

In short, there are too many cmdrs in open that probably shoudn't be there (also quite a few in solo that don't realise how safe it is in open as they read the forums too much)

 

[CaptainPugwash]

Well I play mostly in open, what irritates me big way is how current pvp system breaks lets say believability in game's universe. In solo it works well enough. If I do not want trouble I check security ratings on systems on my route, and steer clear of low secs/anarchies/war zones. If I am really carebear I try to route through high sec systems. Now in open every place is in effect anarchy. There can be either roving gang of terrorists attacking anyone suitable target in any system, or loner psycho doing little murderspree. With minimal consequences. I would want to see robust mechanisms severely affecting gameplay of those types outside anarchies/low sec systems. With steeply growing risks, and no easy way of getting rid of those consequences. As there is no such thing, well blocklist is your friend.

Agree totally: high sec should be just that, even for open mode. You can't really garantee safe passage from a ganker, but the consequences for the ganker could be increased a LOT.

 

[BL1P]

Well I play mostly in open, what irritates me big way is how current pvp system breaks lets say believability in game's universe. In solo it works well enough. If I do not want trouble I check security ratings on systems on my route, and steer clear of low secs/anarchies/war zones. If I am really carebear I try to route through high sec systems. Now in open every place is in effect anarchy. There can be either roving gang of terrorists attacking anyone suitable target in any system, or loner psycho doing little murderspree. With minimal consequences. I would want to see robust mechanisms severely affecting gameplay of those types outside anarchies/low sec systems. With steeply growing risks, and no easy way of getting rid of those consequences. As there is no such thing, well blocklist is your friend.

This^^

 

[Harley Quinn]

In response to the OP, about half of my friends lists are PvP players and outlaws which I am not. Funny thing is they are all nice people who simply enjoy the game differently than me. They like playing the outlaw and enjoy the rush of PvP combat, and while their victims may not like it, they generally try to do it in a friendly manner, and we have many mutual friends in common who met them by being victims.

While not my type of game, I respect their decision to play that way and understand why they enjoy it rather than the way I enjoy and play the game. On the whole they have no problems with me playing the game I like to play either, which is why we are friends. I would not have met any of them if not in open though.

Admittedly some of the reactions they have received from their in game "victims" crosses a line for me, and I'm left wondering why they don't target those "victims" more, particularly as after the abuse they have given by that "victim" for playing a legitimate part of the game I would be tempted to.

For the rest of my friends list, there are a lot of old rifters on there, but the rest are other players who play in open that I have met along the way, including members of the local PMFs around where I call home. Many of these are also purely PvE players, some both, and a few PvP. But if I hadn't been playing in open I wouldn't have met them, or joined random unknown people killing thargoids who became friends.

As to the game I play, well i spend a lot of time on BGS, and there if you come up against another player supported faction then you are still playing against other players and trying to beat them. In that I think it's appropriate that you can be caught playing against people and they can take direct action to stop you, rather than at a click of a button being anonymous and safe from any reprisal. Not being too much of a hypocrite (well most of us to some extent) as I hate the anonymous attackers hiding in solo/PG to hurt somebody else's game, I don't do it myself. This means playing in Open.

And finally, once you get to a certain point NPCs are not really dangerous. You get to know depending on what you are flying when and how to kill them, and when and how you need to escape. That all falls into a predictable pattern, which lets admit it, with repetition just becomes boring and safe. As I'm supposed to be living in a wild dangerous galaxy, it needs open to provide that edge and the interest that comes with it.

Yes this means I have to deal with the occasional person I would rather have never met. Yes it means I get ganked and griefed at times. But the positive points and interactions I have had far outweigh them.

For anybody else choosing to play in open, if the people I prefer not to have met annoy you too much with their behaviour you always have the option to block, so there is still a way to play in open while only having to deal with griefers once. I would only caution that just because somebody ganks or pirates you, this doesn't mean that they are griefers. It's worth checking your comms and even talk to them first before you decide.

Should add, I do play in PG/Solo sometimes. PG to join friends who don't like open, solo when doing something that will just effect me and not others or the galaxy when I'm not in the mood for any company. If in a solo mood, I simply avoid the things that would impact on other players in any way.

 

[Vetinari]

Also a while back there were these things called Community Goals which would draw commanders to a system to work towards a community target of trading or bounty hunting or Conflict zones or mining.

Oooh, tell me more of these fabled events, surely they were just a myth or a dream or a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of your eye?

 

[CaptainPugwash]

In response to the OP, about half of my friends lists are PvP players and outlaws which I am not. Funny thing is they are all nice people who simply enjoy the game differently than me. They like playing the outlaw and enjoy the rush of PvP combat, and while their victims may not like it, they generally try to do it in a friendly manner, and we have many mutual friends in common who met them by being victims.

Great post, I really like the balanced view in the first paragraph about other people just enjoying the game differently. Too many contributers to this forum get overly moralistic.
The only time I have got angry about being ganked is when they refuse to stop and talk and then refuse my friend request - much worse than killing me in the first place.

Actually I do get angry with myself at times when I completely f...k up in PvP, but that's another story ..

 

[Mikalus]

And you've hit upon the crux of my inquiry: how can there be salt to mine in a game where Open mode is explicitly about the possibility of emergent PVP at any time?

The only way someone could get salty about that is if they were playing in Open with some expectation that was undercut by the reality they experienced, and that disconnect lead them to feeling betrayed and angry.

I came to Elite for PVP and PVP only, so when I have been ganked - and I've been ganked plenty - I accepted it as an inherent part of the game, the thing I had signed up for. I know there are tools at my disposal which I can use at any time to prevent PVP from being possible, while still allowing me a consequence-free way to progress. So I don't get salty - because my expectations are not being subverted.

I guess the purpose of this thread is to learn what expectations people are bringing to Open, and how they came to have them, when Open is explicitly the only mode of gameplay where emergent, random PVP with strangers is possible.

I have no problem being interdicted in system or attacked in instances. My problem comes when you are about to land onnsay, Deciat, in a non combat exploration ship, and after being approved to dock a commander opens fire and blows you up with no warning.
That's the kind of ganking that sucks.

 

[Vetinari]

Well the argument generally is.

You should play in Open. Except when visiting Engineers or high traffic systems maybe. You should engineer your ship to survive in Open, do this in Solo because Open is not for you...yet...despite what we said at the beginning.

So basically you should play in Open until theres a chance of meeting someone, then you should go to Solo to make sure you dont meet anyone and engineer your ship to survive meeting someone in Open where you should be, especially in high traffic zones or you are just unfairly affecting the BGS or not giving the gankers a target, and if you get ganked on the landing pad its your fault for trying to unlock the engineer without unlocking the engineer and upgrading your ship to survive in Open in the first place where you should be and yet should not be at the same time until you have unlocked that engineer.

At no point should landing pad ganking or ramming be prevented, you should learn from this.

Have you got that?

If you have, please explain it to me.

 

[Danquememe]

I have no problem being interdicted in system or attacked in instances. My problem comes when you are about to land onnsay, Deciat, in a non combat exploration ship, and after being approved to dock a commander opens fire and blows you up with no warning.
That's the kind of ganking that sucks.

Especially if you've just flown 300LY to deliver a meta-alloy!

 

[Riverside]

Have you got that?

If you have, please explain it to me.

I think different people give different advice.

Nice summary though

 

[Danquememe]

If you have, please explain it to me.

This post got an IRL chuckle out of me. Elite truly is an insane game on more than one level. We all apparently love it, or something, but there's no denying that "learning to play" means, for many if not all people, learning when to use which of the many tools at our disposal to "curate" the type of experience we're looking to have, in that specific moment.

 

[Danquememe]

In response to the OP, about half of my friends lists are PvP players and outlaws which I am not. Funny thing is they are all nice people who simply enjoy the game differently than me. They like playing the outlaw and enjoy the rush of PvP combat, and while their victims may not like it, they generally try to do it in a friendly manner, and we have many mutual friends in common who met them by being victims.

This was a lovely reply, and thanks for that. I've quoted the bit above that really matches my own experience with the outlaws. Some of the lawfuls are fun people, too - I think the whole lawful/outlaw RP thing is a fun aspect of endgame content, for those interested in same (for example, that's more interesting to me right now than say, exploration, but that's just my personal opinion, about what I'm looking for in the game).

I will say that the outlaws I've met really are not interested in telling other people how to play the game, other than giving them "free tests" of their engineering and evasion skills. They tend to be very experienced players, and I've learned a huge amount from them. "It takes a thief" or something like that. Many, ironically perhaps, come from backgrounds doing quite a lot of PVE "carebear" activities - BGS, PowerPlay, etc. They sort of wound up ganking and doing PVP after they'd felt like they'd exhausted all other content.

At some point, I hope to learn more about the BGS, PowerPlay, Thargoids and exploration - these are areas of the game that are complete blank spots to me, besides PP weapon unlocks! But I came to Elite for the spaceship PVP, and there's plenty here to keep me occupied for the foreseeable future.

I am really grateful for all the response to this thread - it's really helped open my eyes, as a new player, to the wider world of the game in a way that my own laser-focus on "getting to PVP ASAP" had prevented me from really understanding.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

This post got an IRL chuckle out of me. Elite truly is an insane game on more than one level. We all apparently love it, or something, but there's no denying that "learning to play" means, for many if not all people, learning when to use which of the many tools at our disposal to "curate" the type of experience we're looking to have, in that specific moment.

If it's not a salt mine it's at least a sociology experiment!

 

[Northpin]

At some point, I hope to learn more about the BGS

Please do.
Hopefully your next thread won't be: the BGS is ruined by those solo/pg players. IF you feel tempted to make such a thread, it means you need to learn more about BGS

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

At some point, I hope to learn more about the BGS, PowerPlay, Thargoids and exploration - these are areas of the game that are complete blank spots to me, besides PP weapon unlocks! But I came to Elite for the spaceship PVP, and there's plenty here to keep me occupied for the foreseeable future.

When you're ready to dive into these things definately post on the forums. I'll toot my own squadron's horn here for a moment and say that I think we've created a really unique style that combines everything there is in Elite into a holisitic package. There are lots of ways to do Elite, but I don't see any others quite like ours.

Heck, certainly none that end up with novels based on in-game events.

exaggeratedly points to signature

 

[Danquememe]

Heck, certainly none that end up with novels based on in-game events.

Ha, I hear you! My own character's backstory is rooted 100% in fact - I was kicked out by the Pilots Federation on literally my third port of call after undocking for the first time. I'd carried a princely 2 ton load of agronomic treatment from a port in Matet to Fermat City in Hollatja, and the resulting 10x profit margin was enough to bump me up a tier in trade, thereby locking me out of the starter system after only about 3hrs of gameplay.

After that, my character bummed around scraping together enough credits from bounty hunting nav beacons and RES to purchase a Cobra Mk III, which he promptly outfitted for LTD mining. On only his second trip to market, he was intercepted and destroyed by a ruthless ganker, who happened to be the first CMDR my character had seen since leaving the starter systems.

Accepting the ganker's friend request afterwards lead to a whirlwind of getting kidnapped and carried off across the galaxy aboard the FC "Mother of all Ganks," where his new friend became a mentor, helping him unlock engineers and gathering upgrade materials. He accompanied the young CMDR on his first gank - an unarmed Dolphin of all things, how cruel.

Shortly thereafter, our aspiring s**t-tier gankling had the exciting experience of attacking an Anaconda flown by a much more experienced pilot, then having the target clog on him, only to come back with friends looking for a "reverse gank" revenge. Getting coached over comms by his mentor and squadron mates, the young CMDR hung in orbital cruise while engaging in banter with his would-be reverse gankers, buying enough time for his friend to jump MOAG into the system. He then rocketed out of orbital cruise, nav beacon enabled, and effected the "reverse reverse gank." The would-be vigilantes were destroyed in 3 minutes, and the young CMDR got credited with the kill of the Anaconda that had been originally denied him by the clog.

Then there was the time CMDR Webgear was live on stream, AFK while refueling at a star... that lead to a whole adventure of its own.

There's quite a lot of fun to be had in the outlaw / lawful dynamic, to be sure.

 

[Marra Morgan]

You should see how salty people get over dying in EVE. The worst on this forum smells like roses.

Ah, New Eden salt is the finest!

Funnily enough, EVE players think this forum is worse!

Spoiler