True, but it's a lot easier to accept the game as it is when it favours your playstyle. That's the crux of the matter Phisto, of course you're happy with it, you like blowing crap up!!! But for others that's not so good......just try and squeeze a little bit oif empathy for the other sides views?
Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand
- Thread starter Danquememe
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True, but it's a lot easier to accept the game as it is when it favours your playstyle. That's the crux of the matter Phisto, of course you're happy with it, you like blowing crap up!!! But for others that's not so good......just try and squeeze a little bit oif empathy for the other sides views?
As long as you're in a reasonably secure system. I fully understand getting murdered in the "wrong" part of town....especailly in a dystopian setting, but yeah keep to safe areas and you "should" be safe.
I had a thought (rare!). The Main problem I see with being the vicitim of griefing is the waste of time involved. How about seeing as we're all in the Pilots federation that the PF FULLY insures any PF member from the actions of another PF member? FULL ship cost reimbursed, special PF member backup of exloration data (yeah that's a problem area but only because FD started it with no actual backup of exloration data to stop people suiciding back), All missions etc compensated as complete with rewards.
That would 100% stop the salt IMO.
That would 100% stop the salt IMO.
And no one would exploit the mechanics with their mates...nosir, of course not!
I'm absolutely cognizant that my playstyle, not just ganking but also the BGS work, really does upset people. Ultimately how they deal with that is their business, not mine.
We all have to remember at the end of the day we're playing a game. I think of it like this: the Stanley Cup playoffs are going on right now in hockey. At the end of a series, both teams form up into a "hand shake line" and congratulate each other on a game well played.
Keep in mind, this is the sport where mere minutes ago you might've been trying to take a player's head off! And I'm not even talking about fighting! Regardless of that you line up, look each other in the eye, and shake hands. There's usually a lot of hugging, too.
Believe me. If there was a hand shake line in Elite I'd line up with every foe I've ever faced. No exceptions.
This is way "players" actions shouldn't have any effect on "lore"....story yeah, minor inconsequential stuff, becuase (and I'm 99% sure of this) if FD gve the players the optin of playing as thargoids and wiping all human life out of the Milky way...I'm certain a large percentage of the PvPers would jump at that opputunity!!! C'mon YOU know it Phisto, even if it meant the end of the game afterwards, it'd be impossible to resist!!
Then again that could possibly galvanise enough lone wolf good guys to work together to try and stop you all!!
I'm honestly not sure if I'd go with the Thargoids. I'd be more likely to just leave it all alone and carve out my own space with my people. In a properly opportunistic way, of course!
Playing a villain in game does not justify vilifying me, or anyone else, as one outside of the game.
As far as the toxic stuff goes? It doesn't bother me. In game I'm in game so whatever. Cry some more! Outside of the game? There are things that need saying on this forum and elsewhere. Toxic responses won't stop me from speaking my mind.
It absolutely favors my playstyle. No debate there. Seems to favor Braben's desire for troublemaking in Elite, too!
As far as empathy for the other side... that's exactly why I keep giving this advice:
Choose your mode. Prepare accordingly. Everything else is rubbish.
Rubbish includes any feelings I may have towards your plight. Patting you on the back and wiping way your tears doesn't do anything for your ship's health pool, either!
Nice sentiment and all... but what do people do until then? That's right: choose your mode. Prepare accordingly.
It absolutely wouldn't. People are salty because we dare act antagonistically at all, which brings us to the root of the problem with anti-gankers: they can't accept people not doing what they're told.
Without risk there is no adventure
I think 'salt' can be extracted without killing or loss of assets/progress. Schadenfreude goes both ways, personally I try to find solutions where all concerned win or are no worse off, I find that more engaging & challenging than simply trying to be annoying for the sake of it or attempting to remove the opportunity to lose.
I think that if a player is looking for a fight, and finds a fight with someone else that also wants to fight, both win. I like the idea of attempting to police 'baddies' out of a system, of bounty hunting and I'd like to see more players talking up that 'noble' challenge. That way in theory at least, everyone wins.
ETA gang warfare also works for me, and I try to play that way, where good & bad are a matter of perspective rather than law.
Without winners and losers, what's the point of playing?
Well the idea is that you fight someone that wants to fight you, as I said. Whoever actually wins the fight, you both 'win' because you got to do what you wanted to do.
Nope you remember right. It changed. Community feedback (and influencers) was that NPCs were too hard so they got made easier. Thats how one % of the community change the game for everyone and not everyone likes it. (edit: one percentage of the community not 1%)
Aaaah, never knew that. I thought it was basically that historically, finding something does not mean you own it, you had to get back to civilisation to register it to claim it. Im slightly annoyed now thats its for an exploit prevent.
I think thats what fdev and some people thought would happen but:
Pointed out above, playing baddie is more fun than playing goodie.
Not enough people actually want PVP anyway
Proper gankers and griefers dont stay in Open, they switch to Solo & PG all the time, killing RP for the BH. Nobody can get 'revenge' when they find the ganker in a mining ship.
Gankers will fly 15,000LY to escape consequences or have legitimate PVP with willing opponents.
So overall its just not really any fun or worth any bother to try and engage with gankers in game usually.
Change my mind.
But haven't you heard? Its all about 'helping others' and delivering mugs and 'friendship drives'.
If you attack me via direct PvP (and PvP suits your skillset better than mine in this example), and I want vengeance, I'm not going to retaliate in a way that favours you, I'm going to do it in a way that I think is to my advantage. So maybe I'll attack your faction's infrastructure, and maybe I'll do it in solo to bypass any advantage your higher PvP skill brings to the contest.
Or maybe I'll send my big brother after you, get some mates to fight you instead. That kind of thing. Miners are rich, PvPers are quite often both poor and bored
This does happen, not a lot but it does. I think the official term for it is 'Salt Mining'
This doesnt happen enough in an in-game way and can be construed as 'griefing' by stalking or harassing someone if done out of game or even in game.
PvPers are quite often both poor and bored
I thought that, the poor bit, how do they make any money? But then I realised theyre in PG & Solo mining and presumably selling into someones BGS as well. The dystopian universe only exists when theyre in OP PVP combat ships and only for other people.
Meanwhile in gankers rules fight club.
Honestly, I am very skeptical as to whether that would stop the salt, let alone the complaints about "time wasted."
Again - not trying to call anyone out here, and just sharing personal anecdote. Take the comments with whatever, ahem, grain of salt you feel appropriate.
There seem to be a class of player for whom any conflict that they cannot be assured of winning is considered an affront, or a waste of their time, or likewise.
They have, as in one of the examples above, built up in their mind a feeling of superiority based on their ability to destroy the (mostly) toothless NPCs. They are likely quite proud of the (fill in the blank) Anaconda, Corvette or whatever they're piloting, and are pretty sure they are nigh on invincible.
However, when these players are confronted by a competent human opponent, the comfortable illusion is shattered. Suddenly, they can't simply lean on their build - they're getting orbited, their shields are weakening, now they're being rammed. Maybe even "humped." It's awful. Before they know it, they're staring at a rebuy screen.
For this player, in-game compensation in the form of an even more generous rebuy cost won't restore their illusion of power and command over all that they see. That dream has been forever shattered, and they're faced with the choice to either "git gud," so that they too can compete with these human opponents, or use one of the many tools that FDev have provided them to avoid same.
There's no judgment implied or otherwise around that choice. Not everyone is seeking the same thing from the game. Human opponents are clearly intended to provide the Open challenge that the NPCs in Elite Dangerous do not, but that level of challenge is not what every player seeks. And that's OK.
Unlike Soulsborne and other game franchises renowned for their difficulty, in Elite, you have options, and there's no shame in using them. It is, after all, a leisure activity. Find the way to use the game's tools to curate the experience you seek, and be happy.
Some might argue that playing in Open could be considered Elite's version of "hard mode." In that formulation, the players "wasting your time" are in fact providing a different level of gaming challenge, one that it is yours to figure out how to surmount. In that context, the only "wrong" answer is getting mad at the players who are in fact playing the game as intended - the ones "making things go wrong for other people" in the selfsame hard mode of the game. Which is, as Braben has indicated, part of the richness of the Elite experience. His words, not mine.
The little one wins... Too difficult to hit being so small so he high wakes away from the arena...
Yes, that reminds me of every time I've been in my Krait Mk II and taken down an Anaconda, Corvette, T-10 or Cutter with a terrible PVE "multirole" build.
Quelle apropos!
Speaking from experience, both my own and that of other people - gankers like nothing so much as when another player comes to take revenge for a gank.
The vast majority of gankers I've met will absolutely welcome a revenge attempt. They may not stick around and let themselves be killed if things start going poorly - they are experienced players, for the most part, using solid builds. However, if someone high wakes from a fight, leaving you in possession of the "battlefield"... well, you've won that fight, and should be pleased.
One of my most exciting experiences in-game so far happened when I tried to gank a CMDR - higher ranked than myself - who was flying an Anaconda. I pulled him, got him to 4% hull, and he task killed. I was very new at the time, and this was my first solo Anaconda - I was excited, and then disappointed to be denied my kill by an action that is, in fact, a violation of FDev's TOS.
But wait, there's more! Said CMDR not only came back, but he came back with friends. Three of them! All in their "badass" PVE builds. There was the aforementioned Anaconda, a Corvette, and a couple others I've forgotten now. Oh no, I'm in danger now, right? Heh.
So I start orbiting the planet near where I'd pulled the original guy, in orbital cruise. A possibly little-known fact about game mechanics: when you're in orbital cruise, you cannot be interdicted, and you cannot be shot (since you're still technically in supercruise). So long as you do not drop into glide (and thus, the surface "low space" instance) nor climb out of orbital cruise, you are effectively invulnerable.
Anyways, the would-be vigilantes realize what's going on and start giving me some trash talk via system chat. I play along - remember, I was just a Novice in a Krait, a genuine newbie, and these guys are Master and above, in their "awesome" endgame PVE ships. They're telling me to pop out of orbital, calling me a coward, you know, the usual sorts of trash talk. No harm no foul, we were all playing a game and having fun. They seemed pretty convinced that I'd eventually slip up and they'd have me.
What the good guys didn't know was that I was on comms with my ganker buddies, and they were at that moment jumping into system with two fleet carriers and a full wing's worth of gankers. In fully engineered murderboats. Somehow - I am still amazed it worked out - I was able to keep the vigilantes' attention long enough for the fifteen minutes to elapse. As I'm getting a countdown over voice chat, I orbit around the planet, get the pursuers on the far side from where I know my buddy's fleet carrier is going to drop in, and then hit the throttle, leaving orbital cruise.
The good guys saw that I had finally departed orbit, and no fewer than three of them attempted to interdict me. However, because they themselves were still in orbital cruise, each attempt failed instantly. I was a good number of light seconds away, flying full tilt towards my friends, whose wing invite I accepted, followed by enabling my wing beacon so they could drop on me.
I let up on the throttle to allow the closest pursuer to interdict me. I fought the interdiction long enough to allow his friends - as well as my own - to catch up. What followed was a truly organic wingfight, my first ever. It was over in 3 minutes, and I'm pleased to report the gankers took no casualties, and I got credited with the kill on the CMDR who'd task killed on me initially.
Now that, friends, was a hell of an experience. Just an example of the truly exciting kinds of interactions that can happen when people decide to take revenge.
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Exquisite.
You had to be there. No, really. You've got to experience these kinds of things for yourself.
Best wing fight I ever had was back during the good old days of Quince. Me and the boys had been up there shooting everything that moved. We'd taken to camping Gaylen's Ascension, the popular tourist beacon up there.
Bunch of CMDRs we'd be sparring with finally organized. Eight ships lying in wait at the beacon. Got our buddy's Cutter almost instantly. Still haven't seen a properly fitted Cutter melt that fast. We called in buddies, and in moments we had a rolling 8 v 8. Folks kept getting destroyed and coming back for more.
It was glorious.
Best part? Everyone back in the station afterward absolutely floored with how much fun we all had. I couldn't fall asleep until 6am. No foolin'!
Baby gankers are a bit like baby pigeons... You rarely see them until they are big enough to fly alone?