(Rant) Player factions have gone too far

[the100thmonkey]

So to sumarise:

1. Player factions have been introduced.
2. Some people think they have daft names.
3. Phekda is no longer run by The Phekda Society.
4. It hasn't been for a long time.
5. A lot of people are unhappy about the introduction of POMFs.
   • They dislike the concept in general, or
   • their pet system was taken over by one without so much as a by your leave.
6. IKEA have an outpost near you.

To my knowledge, all these points have been made before.

 

[Legacy_LuckyLuke]

I have no sympathy for the OP. Where was the OP when we raised the issue with Contrail being given Anlave - also part of Frontier law? I put my money where my mouth was and actually tried to oppose with one other person - bit more support we could have licked them or would still be fighting now.

Hopefully the next batch will be introduced without system control as suggested by FD in the player group feedback thread. Player Groups are here to stay, the number of players engaged is at least the size, if not more than PvE only Morbius membership, so FD are catering for a desire.

Only actual affect on me is I probably have to be careful in Anlave, not sure if Contrail still have me on KOS list!


Simon

I had the same thought

 

[W4rSkuLL]

Its a big galaxy and if a player group gets a "minor faction", what does it create. Yes, more content and fun for those players. Btw the system name is still the same, but a minor faction group has changed, that happens in real life to. Groups/empires come and go with different agendas. I guess its the same in 3300. The core lore with commander Jameson, The Federation, Alliance and The Empire with the Thargoids is still intact despite some commanders get their own minor faction to evolve and influence. I think its great. Remember the Elite inhabited bubble is a huge living breathing mass of human life. 150000 systems with some kind of human colonization is always going to change and some areas will be in conflict.

 

[drholliday]

Personally i think that what happened to that system is great. The galaxy is evolving and changing, was that what we all wanted from this game? All those complains that players couldn't affect the universe? Players wanted to take over that system and others didn't want to stop it. I would like to see more of this. New permit locked systems popping up and old once remove need for permit because players affect the bgs. A living galaxy.

That's not how it works. If someone takes over a system that's one thing. If someone gets a system for free that's something completely different. IMO new player groups should get a C-rated outpost on a planet and that's it. If they have any allegiance this is also factored in. Robigo was essentially given to an Empire faction. The Empire is quite literally ON THE OTHER SIDE of the bubble. So what's the story how CDE supposedly got there and how the hell did they take the system over from the cartel? If that would be a Sirius aligned faction ... ok. Sirius Corp is quite active in that sector. But even then ... Robigo is a one stop shop. Such systems should be NEVER given to a player faction as a starting system.

 

[thirstyfish]

I love empire building. Just wish i didnt need others and i could squirrel away materials and money then build a base and add colonists and guns and mine field and capital ships and ultimately DOMINATE EVERYONE! <suitable menacing echoy voice>

then go play something else. Galaxy on Fire Alliances perhaps. this game wasn't and isn't supposed to be about empire building. There are a lot of us here who don't want to see this game go that way.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

That's not how it works. If someone takes over a system that's one thing. If someone gets a system for free that's something completely different. IMO new player groups should get a C-rated outpost on a planet and that's it. If they have any allegiance this is also factored in. Robigo was essentially given to an Empire faction. The Empire is quite literally ON THE OTHER SIDE of the bubble. So what's the story how CDE supposedly got there and how the hell did they take the system over from the cartel? If that would be a Sirius aligned faction ... ok. Sirius Corp is quite active in that sector. But even then ... Robigo is a one stop shop. Such systems should be NEVER given to a player faction as a starting system.

Once again. What is done is done. FD understand their mistake, they have got player input now on how to proceed in future.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Guess what, player factions and their actions are now part of the Lore. Anything else is just your awful headcanon now. If you really cared about what whatever faction did whereever, you'd go and do something to counter it rather than show off your bottled tears collection and essays of butthurt on the forums.

Yes, because sending an email and getting a faction on a system station just screams "lore" doesn't it?

 

[Jex =TE=]

Just voicing my agreement with OP. Nothing more to be said except ruining game history and lore for making the game an MMO.

I'm all for player affect on the galaxy but there's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it. FD seem to always choose the wrong route to do things and allowing players to take over well known systems is just nonsense with so many systems out there. So if I read the lore and went to that system my immersion has been ruined and the story is now void because why?

 

[Jex =TE=]

I'm with the Op on this one.

I made a home in a nice little system, high tech, nice trade routes etc....then wallop a player group takes over, this wasn't a slow progress thing or they slowly got control, no the next day I log in this player group are in charge.

Prices are all over the place, my rep now counts for nothing and my trade routes are borked.

I looked into the player group and they actually seem like a nice bunch (just with a really stupid name) and I don't really blame them.

However this has to be the most ham fisted, backwards and outright bizarre way to introduce player groups into any game i've played.

The mechanic: you write FD an email?? What?? Seriously....that's it?? An email??

This was not meant to be part of the game originally, FD cave into the pressure and because there is no in game mechanic to handle this they start handing out system control like they are sweets....just say please.

At least give player factions control of small out of the way systems and let them build from there rather than give them control of major trade hubs right off the bat, or seeing as FD are a games developer actually create an in game mechanic for establishing a player faction.

There...i've said it.

FD were told probably before launch that they hadn't thought things through and the game they were making wasn't acceptable for today's standards. They ignored people who had been gaming for decades to "Make the game they wanted" and now their lack of foresight is coming back to bite them.

With no mechanics put in place to handle this or many other things, FD now have to flip a switch on the server. It can't be a gradual thing because there's no mechanic for that.

Maybe what they should do is find an empty system and put them in there or add a new faction and station with their name on it and let the BGS work it out but that's probably asking way too much as well.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Guess what, player factions and their actions are now part of the Lore. Anything else is just your awful headcanon now. If you really cared about what whatever faction did whereever, you'd go and do something to counter it rather than show off your bottled tears collection and essays of butthurt on the forums.

Oh, do you mean send a counter-email?

 

[Jex =TE=]

I think we should have the ability to destroy a player faction or at least force it to retreat from a given system. That would be the only way I can see that is fair to everyone. That way if enough players want it, they can work towards eliminating a faction that they feel should not have been in that system in the first place.

SP/GP and OP disagree with you I'm afraid.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

Ancients of Mumu is NOT a player faction!

it kinda is. As long as nothing of a factions decisions is made by a player and all is just done by the BGS every not player created minor faction is still a palyer controlled faction ponce someone decides to "work" for them with the BGS.

FD needs a proper mechanic that require sno Email to found a faction and to decide how things spread and what actions a minor faction attemps, with the BGS system just being responsible to calculate the happenings around to decide to which degree the intented action will be achieved.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

They ignored people who had been gaming for decades to "Make the game they wanted" and now their lack of foresight is coming back to bite them.

While I understand what you are saying, you seem to be ignoring the fact that FD have been making games for decades... successful games at that. So while they have made mistakes (and will presumably continue to make mistakes - we all do), saying they ignored experienced players is a bit of a stretch.... having said that, we often have comments on the forums where people blame the older generation of players for convincing FD to make the game they want.... so its probably simply depends on where you are standing as to which player group or company you want to blame for the current state of the game.

 

[Jex =TE=]

While I understand what you are saying, you seem to be ignoring the fact that FD have been making games for decades... successful games at that. So while they have made mistakes (and will presumably continue to make mistakes - we all do), saying they ignored experienced players is a bit of a stretch.... having said that, we often have comments on the forums where people blame the older generation of players for convincing FD to make the game they want.... so its probably simply depends on where you are standing as to which player group or company you want to blame for the current state of the game.

I believe in making the game certain gamers had access to the alpha and beta forums and were pointing out a great many things and FD were reading them. The fact that FD have been making games for decades only paints them in a worse light. How is it they were able to ignore so many facets of game design - we joke about FD making no games because ED has so many mistakes in it that you would expect from a noobie game design company.

So they not only ignored the forums but seemingly ignored the gaming industry and current game technologies as well and then when the problems come up, what do they do - they choose the worst way to handle it (this thread is an example) and this is meant to build our confidence how exactly? They keep making the wrong decisions it seems and that's going to drive people away from the game.

They need someone else in charge who has foresight and can lead the team in the right direction. Simple things like grammar would be checked and wouldn't make it into the game for one thing. That in itself is such an embarrassment - we're not "all your base our belong to us" here you know

 

[lysan]

Well, FD are still very new in this business, they are making mistaks for sure.

I agree with you @OP, however getting mad will not help you in any way. Just make peace with yourself that FD is not experienced enough to handle this, and they will need to learn it the hard way.

When Elder scrolls became Elder Scrolls Online (ESO) I was like ??? Meh! it failed 100%. today it's better however still not as good as the SP game. \you just need to roll with it and not getting mad, because that is just you who will get irritated about it.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Well, FD are still very new in this business, they are making mistaks for sure.

I agree with you @OP, however getting mad will not help you in any way. Just make peace with yourself that FD is not experienced enough to handle this, and they will need to learn it the hard way.

When Elder scrolls became Elder Scrolls Online (ESO) I was like ??? Meh! it failed 100%. today it's better however still not as good as the SP game. \you just need to roll with it and not getting mad, because that is just you who will get irritated about it.

New to self-publishing (explains the mistakes in communications), not to development (does not explain long standing bugs that don't get fixed and strange design descisions).

Hoiwever, i am one of those who just rolls with it. I'm enjoying the game, and can wait for improvements.

 

[Stahll Amatin]

In my personal opinion the decision to try to make ED and MMO was a horrible one, Only compounded FD trying to straddle the fence rather then commit fully to either a SP/co-op experience or an MMO experience.

If they wanted to deliver an MMO, Player factions, wings, proper group/guild/corp management, etc should have all been there and functional on launch day. Period. these are vital to an MMO experience. MASSIVELY Multi-Player. While we can squabble of the semantics of what MMO means these days there is a perception of the genre- if you advertise as an MMO people expect and demand proper functionality to play WITH and AGAINST others in a organized fashion.

If they wanted to deliver a Lore-Rich universe, they should have focused more on the mission system, Interaction with important and unique NPCs that have meaningful characterization and backgrounds, etc. Perhaps with 'group' mode serving instead as a co-op mode.

It will always be my opinion that the design decision to make an MMO with solo/private sessions taking place in the same persistent universe as an mmo (open mode) is just a flat out un-resolvable MESS that should have never been created in the first place. to be clear- this is not simply a matter of PvP vs. PvE that so many want to make it out to be. The more influence you give players the less story driven/lore driven the game can truly be. At the end of the day they should have made EITHER a true MMO with dedicated servers and MASSIVE instances focused on PLAYER INTERACTION and PLAYER CONTROL of the universe, OR focused on a Lore-Rich Universe that You as the player (and possibly your friends via a co-op session/savegame) are a small part of.

 

[telperion]

Yes, Frontier aren't the best with commnunication and they've made some very questionable design decisions but really this is all a matter of personal choice.

Do their design and community management decisions make you so mad that it stops you from playing the game? Well, on the one hand that means they won't get any more money from you and if enough people feel the same way it will not end well for Frontier *but* it means that you can no longer play the game.

Do their design decisions and community management decisions annoy you but not enough to stop you playing? On the one hand it's annoying but complaining on the forums is unlikely to have a great deal of impact on Frontier. They've shown over time that they're not really open to forum-blackmail and forum-rage.

So, if you want change the only and I do mean only way to potentially get it is to make reasoned suggestions which gather player momentum on the forums and even then it's pretty unlikely to go anywhere. A good example of a reasoned set of suggestions is https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=235327

When it comes down to it, Frontier are making the game they want and whilst they do seem to be trying to cater to a wider audience in order to increase their revenue it seems likely that it's on their terms, not ours.

So I guess it's up to you to decide. The only vote you've really got is to vote with your feet. So will you quit or will you keep playing, hoping that they listen to people with reasoned arguements and eventually turn it into something better?

 

[Stahll Amatin]

Yes, Frontier aren't the best with commnunication and they've made some very questionable design decisions but really this is all a matter of personal choice.

Do their design and community management decisions make you so mad that it stops you from playing the game? Well, on the one hand that means they won't get any more money from you and if enough people feel the same way it will not end well for Frontier *but* it means that you can no longer play the game.

Do their design decisions and community management decisions annoy you but not enough to stop you playing? On the one hand it's annoying but complaining on the forums is unlikely to have a great deal of impact on Frontier. They've shown over time that they're not really open to forum-blackmail and forum-rage.

So, if you want change the only and I do mean only way to potentially get it is to make reasoned suggestions which gather player momentum on the forums and even then it's pretty unlikely to go anywhere. A good example of a reasoned set of suggestions is https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=235327

When it comes down to it, Frontier are making the game they want and whilst they do seem to be trying to cater to a wider audience in order to increase their revenue it seems likely that it's on their terms, not ours.

So I guess it's up to you to decide. The only vote you've really got is to vote with your feet. So will you quit or will you keep playing, hoping that they listen to people with reasoned arguements and eventually turn it into something better?

There is this saying that when you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one.

I personally feel that FD's choice to straddle the fence between the MMO scene and a more traditional Space-sim or space rpg based on its own lore and back story is really ruining the game. I honestly have no interest in open play as i feel it has nothing to offer. NOT because i want a purely PvE game- but if im going to be in an always online persistent universe and subject to attack by others i also want the tools and means to have proper in-game clans/fleets/guilds etc. with proper internal management tools etc. i want actual MMO sized partys/fleets. why cant i make a fleet for 20 players? 50 players? oh right cause its not a real mmo its just a tag line meant to reel in the pvpers, girefers, trolls, etc for more sales. it offers NONE of the gameplay and high-steaks group play content that a proper MMO does. But it goes both ways- I think its totally BROKEN that i can participate in CGs, power play, etc and actively influence the universe in a competitve sense where i am directly opposing the actions of others- while hiding safely in solo or group. They have made a ton of design choices that makes me feel they are just trying to milk the market rather then delivering either a lore-rich space-sim/space rpg or delivering a quality space mmo. its neither. its a half baked attempt at both.

 

[telperion]

There is this saying that when you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one.

I personally feel that FD's choice to straddle the fence between the MMO scene and a more traditional Space-sim or space rpg based on its own lore and back story is really ruining the game. I honestly have no interest in open play as i feel it has nothing to offer. NOT because i want a purely PvE game- but if im going to be in an always online persistent universe and subject to attack by others i also want the tools and means to have proper in-game clans/fleets/guilds etc. with proper internal management tools etc. i want actual MMO sized partys/fleets. why cant i make a fleet for 20 players? 50 players? oh right cause its not a real mmo its just a tag line meant to reel in the pvpers, girefers, trolls, etc for more sales. it offers NONE of the gameplay and high-steaks group play content that a proper MMO does. But it goes both ways- I think its totally BROKEN that i can participate in CGs, power play, etc and actively influence the universe in a competitve sense where i am directly opposing the actions of others- while hiding safely in solo or group. They have made a ton of design choices that makes me feel they are just trying to milk the market rather then delivering either a lore-rich space-sim/space rpg or delivering a quality space mmo. its neither. its a half baked attempt at both.

Or you could say it's a new paradigm The same thing from two perspectives.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that's my opinion but I can see it from the other side. You say it's broken to be able to influence the universe in a competetive sense whilst "hiding" in solo or group but again, from the other side, others can influence the universe in opposition to your actions from solo, group or open due to the way the game is made. This isn't EVE. The game world may well be persistent but it isn't single sharded. Just because you're in open doesn't mean that others can stop you from influencing the universe simply because to do that they first have to be instanced with you.

I totally understand where you're coming from but the simple fact that it isn't single sharded means all arguments around affecting the BGS from modes other than open are moot.

The main issue is people are used to single player games or multiplayer games. When I tongue-in-cheek mentioned ED being a new paradigm it was only partially tongue-in-cheek. It is a new paradigm and people are so set in the single player/multiplayer-and-never-shall-the-twain-meet-paradigm that they're getting up in arms about it.

If you accept ED for what it is it's pretty fun. If you try to squeeze your preconceived ideas of what a game should be into it.... well, you can see the affect from people posting on the forums and the shear number of opposing opinions.

Me personally? I play it while I still enjoy it and I'll stop it when I don't. After all, it's just a game