Relative Mouse mode
- Thread starter Bortas
- Start date
On PS4 you can use triple button bindings so I don't think this is the real problem, assuming one is willing to put in careful planning of key mappings.
The true disadvantage is lack of fine grain precision for fixed aim (especially rail) compared to hotas and even moreso kbm. The tiny thumbsticks just lack precision.
if they allowed for an logarithmic sensitivity scale (instead of brute force "deadzone" setting) this could be mitigated.
Also, you need a controller with rear paddles (or mod pack to standard DS4 that adds paddles).
Allowing roll, thrust and yaw to be assigned to a pair of analog triggers (must like SRV has by default) would help as well. Currently they assume a single analog control in range -1/0-1.0, but two triggers give a pair of analog controls in ranges -1.0 - 0 along with a second 0 - 1.0.
So I could have analog roll or yaw or thrust via triggers, but am forced to waste my analog triggers by treating as digital controls.
It does require a lot of work setting up good bindings. Default or casual binding settings are indeed completely useless. It's important to think out of the box and push limit of binding options and experiment.
There is a particularly popular set that is used by most of the good PS4 PvPers but I still prefer mine, and think if I practiced more pure PvP it would really shine (as is, performs quite well enough). But I am too interested in lulz to become more than 80% PvP serious which is a bigger obstacle than any control setup.
If one is willing to go through all these steps, gamepad will still not be as good as kbm, but not "completely useless". And in my opinion better than a bad/mediocre hotas (not better than a good hotas).
Lack of well done headlook (the gyroscope in DS4 is better than nothing but not good) is a major console drawback. Much more problematic than key bindings.
Last edited:
FA Off was specifically designed to require manual correction of your rotation to increase the difficulty amd make it thematically appropriate for the flight mode
Flying FA Off without relative mouse is not 'unplayable', hotas and controller users mastered it with practice
The one minor downside to exploiting a control method to completely counteract the intended design and difficulty of fa off should not be removed. If you don't like it, do what controller and hotas users have and learn to manually correct your rotation
Flying FA Off without relative mouse is not 'unplayable', hotas and controller users mastered it with practice
The one minor downside to exploiting a control method to completely counteract the intended design and difficulty of fa off should not be removed. If you don't like it, do what controller and hotas users have and learn to manually correct your rotation
Last edited:
..And here we go again!
Relative mouse DOES NOT AUTO-CANCEL YOUR MOVEMENT.
In relative-mouse FA-Off, YOU MUST STILL EXPLICITLY COUNTER A ROTATION, or you will spin endlessly.
Relative mouse allows mouse users to have what joystick users ALREADY have.
It allows a mouse to simulate a joystick's ability to return to the central position. It centers the CONTROLLER, it does not center the SHIP.
Given that pretty much everyone has a mouse, why not try actually using normal mouse settings in FA-Off mode to do something that joystick users take for granted (like docking at a station without a docking computer) and then come back with a more well-informed post?
And maybe post a video of your attempt, for our amusement?
Relative mouse DOES NOT AUTO-CANCEL YOUR MOVEMENT.
In relative-mouse FA-Off, YOU MUST STILL EXPLICITLY COUNTER A ROTATION, or you will spin endlessly.
Relative mouse allows mouse users to have what joystick users ALREADY have.
It allows a mouse to simulate a joystick's ability to return to the central position. It centers the CONTROLLER, it does not center the SHIP.
Given that pretty much everyone has a mouse, why not try actually using normal mouse settings in FA-Off mode to do something that joystick users take for granted (like docking at a station without a docking computer) and then come back with a more well-informed post?
And maybe post a video of your attempt, for our amusement?
Should I explain the difference between a laser and lever regarding the accuracy now, or what? [haha]
English is not my main language and posting here feels like work. I made my point! Instead, I play a round.
o7
one last thing, nadreck.. you say you mainly roll your ship, as intended not pitching and yawing? then o7 forget what i say =)
I mean, this is exactly the point.. no one would control a spaceship with a mouse, because it is not flying around its messing around... be glad there grow no trees in space. So now...
With M&K you still have to have a feel for inertia and counter the movement manually even with relative mouse.
It's more about the travel of the control mechanism - joystick has to travel back through where it's just come from, mouse can register the counter movement instantly (which is probably what people are getting at when they claim it is unfair).
I find the relative-mouse+FAOff very intuitive.
I used to play Thrust and Zarch/Virus an awful lot too though. People wanting to get the hang of FAOff might want to give those a shot.
I've tried HOTAS etc and the main reason I don't like them is because I don't like the extra baggage and I feel like a right berk using HOTAS-controllers - I feel embarrassed owning one. :S
I also don't like the feel of them at all. Granted I haven't spent much time setting them up, adjusting curves and deadzones or practicing with them. Clearly it's possible to get good results.
There is a bind for centering mouse. and also one for switching mouse between roll on x axis and yaw. Now the first one means you can manually centre the mouse. not perfect, but helpful if you use FAOFF rarely or transiently to turn. I often play on a laptop with trackpad/kb - have this centre option on "mouse 1" - i.e. 1 finger click, and yaw/roll switch on two-finger click. Its not as convenient as relative mouse, but its not bad. as i usually fly with x axis on roll, its also really nice to be able to switch it to yaw for those precision hammer shots. I would fly FAoff all the time on the laptop if it wasn't for super cruise. as it is, I just don't tend to PvP on the laptop, but wait for when I'm on Hotas. I'm bad at FAOff on horas, but pretty ok with FAOn, and thats good enough for me. Don't mind being killed by a better pilot - thats what the games about IMO.
oh - and with trackpad/kb you have to use keyboard for weapons as well as thusters, pips, targeting, yaw, etc.... my left hand needs more fingers
oh - and with trackpad/kb you have to use keyboard for weapons as well as thusters, pips, targeting, yaw, etc.... my left hand needs more fingers
Last edited:
If you compare a relative mouse user and a Joystick user:
The joystick user moves her joystick forward, holds it for a second, then brings it back to the previous position.
The net result? She is still rotating and must manually correct.
A mouse user moves her mouse forward, holds it for a second, then brings it back to the previous position.
The net result? She rotates for a second, then her motion is automatically cancelled out simply by undoing said motion.
Here's me (a lifetime HOTAS/Dual sticks user) on my 3rd ever FA OFF Mouse docking with no relative mode
[video=youtube;itqNa7k8PPc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itqNa7k8PPc&feature=youtu.be[/video]
I stand by my previous point: Relative mouse in FA OFF bypasses the intended design for FA Off and should not be encouraged or designed around.
Ideally, it would be altered to behave as it does with relative mode off. Relative mouse mode should be for people who want to continually move their mouse to turn, not to turn FA Off into FA On with perks
Last edited:
I am actually the rare console player who does not want cross platform play. Because I know what will happen when my rail aim with a game pad meets the rail aim of a KbM player, even if we're otherwise equal skill.
I just want to add my voice of reason to this debate. As someone who has played for more than 4 years using a hotas and has invested a lot of time trying to "git gud" I find it pathetic that kb+m user are calling to a further "buff" to an already OP function which is bordering on exploit. As above Cmdr's have explained the idea is to promote excellence not mediocrity. Its a space sim, I have always played it on joystick. Even back on C64 and Amiga. I am well aware of damage fixed rail module sniping can do when used with kb+m (mini gimbal to add insult to injury), GJ shields, night vision. Combat in this game has been dumbed down for 2 years and the approach is staring to remind me of WoW when blizzard started to cater to mediocrity and the needs of new kids playing the game. I sincerely hope ED does not continue down this path.
Last edited:
PS: For all the mouse users: You can roll your ship if you forgot!
I know, that's why I have roll left/right bound to buttons on my throttle
I mapped the arrow keys as secondary bindings, up and down for pitch, left and right for roll. So when in supercruise, especially with a non-agile ship, i drive with them when turning, exploring etc. The best simple solution i found for fa off with relative mouse on. (But then again i am left handed so they were close by to [ ; ' \ which i use for pitch and yaw normally). For right handed, just use other empty keys..
Last edited:
Why not? If you wanted to make precise movements with your ship, why is using a mouse as a control method so crazy? An input method is just a means to an end. They use XBox controllers for military applications because they do the job for the required purpose. Maybe not a mouse for exclusive control, but perhaps switching to one for FA-off combat. Why is that so far fetched? It works doesn't it?
It works because it is able to get around a designed in difficulty. You could just as easily map a joystick to mouse input and enable relative mode to have the same artificial advantage (and would likely get better results)
I don't think you understand how relative mouse works. You don't have to do that with a joystick because it automatically centers when you let go. That's all relative mouse is emulating. It's just easier to make finer movements with a mouse, which makes FA off flying easier since it's all about fine movements.
I've used relative mouse mode. I know how it works. I know why it's easier to use.
It essentially turns the mouse into a joystick with FA On.
If I move a relative mouse forward and then back to centre with FA OFF, it's exactly the same as moving a joystick forward and back to centre with FA On: I get angular movement in the direction of the input only while I hold it there. When I move back, it stops.
FA Off with relative mouse sidesteps the intended difficulty of FA OFF of manual over-correction to stop turns
This man knows what he says, it most certainly is a advantage to bypass a disadvantage.