Repeat the same Guardian unlock 18 times? Really?

[Trollymctrollerson]

Entertainment or something else??

Good point.
I think I already find it so hard to justify the time I sink to this game. To accept the lead designer is either a nasty peace of work, or totally incompetent, really has me questioning my sense of self respect and priorities in life.

I know I'm an adult who spends a lot of time playing a computer game, but no game has ever left me feeling like such a mug for doing it.
For a second I wanted believe that they would do something about it if they could, but you are totally right.

. I completely identify with what you are saying. I stopped suggesting this game to my friends long ago and feel like a fool just for logging in. Entertainment I guess? It's so frustrating and tedious it seems more like a bad habit than an act of enjoyment.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

That is not what I said. Please do not put words in my mouth.

Please re-read it. You seem to have completely misunderstand what I have written. Also you do not need guardian weapons to fight thargoid.

I'm going to try one last time.

Statement - you don't need nice trainers or shoes to live. 2 bits of tree bark with vine straps would work perfectly fine.

But say you'd like some nicer footwear.

You are given 2 options how you can earn them:

#1 - spend 2 hours sweeping up leaves into a large bin - then you have to tip it all out, and start again. You have to do this 10 times - you can do it all at once or over a year - but during that year you can't engage in any other activity that requires "shoes".**

#2 - over three days, spend 25 hours playing "the crystal Maze" with friends or fun and engaging strangers, solving puzzles, each different and educational.

Choose.

the analogy should be obvious.

** just in case this isn't clear - Max saying "don't grind it out all at once" means players are having to postpone experiencing the content that uses the guardian weapons. If they want to experience the Thargoid content using the guardian weapons "all at once" is the ONLY OPTION, that makes realistic sense.

Maybe FDev though that players would just mooch about and collect the stuff "as and when they found it" - but FDev's track record of correctly judging player behaviour is non existant.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

Hmm, so many options on which valuable advice to give... Crack it, ill just list them all.

• I haven't even started unlocking any modules, so there are no problems with it.
• I have too much time on my hands, so lengthy unlocking should be fine for everyone.
• I consider that time involved is the only vector difficulty can take, and my mom always told me that I am special, so I am right.
• You can always just relog a couple dozen of times. Who cares about immersion?
• You don't have to use them if you don't like unlocking process.
• I had already unlocked all the modules, and I belive that anyone should suffer same as I did. And I am not just an a-hole, all I do is care about other a-holes people who did the same.
• Why you belive that this game have to be tailored to your liking?? "Your" is written in bold italic all-caps.
• This game is about playing the game. There are no goals. It have some progression systems? Well, I do not involve myself in them, so there are no progression systems.
• I have no clue about the topic in question, but you probably are wrong.

To sum it up, there are no problems. It must be your imagination.
Because there is no problem, there is no point in searching for compromises. Developers would only waste their precious and scarce resources on useless stuff. All of developers' attention should instead be focused on a decal I had always wanted. This is the real priority here.

Oh, almost forgot. If you happen to disagree with any single one of the mentioned above reasons, or what is even worse, count them as , you most likely have a severe case of "this game is not for you" disease and should seek immediate medical assistance.

 

[Knightshark]

Well, they haven't added PP mk2 or another version of CQC. But there seems to be a reasonable number of players that do the Power play part. I do think that they will upgrade it in the future though.

Sure! The PP forum subsection is so active, it must have at least two new posts a day! I mean everyone loves abysmal timer based gameplay (without the option to shortcut by spending money!).
And CQC! When you click matchmake, your router exploded because there are so many connections at once!

Come on! FD do not rework stuff that isn't being used. I also bet they never touch multiscrew again, or at least they won't add new roles that are not combat focused.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

no that is not what I am saying and have never said that. I have mentioned a number of ways in this very thread that would have made the experience better.

Look, the best way to tell FDev that it is a poor mechanic is to not do it.

three words:

CqC - Powerplay - multicrew.

unchanged - AT ALL, despite almost no-one of the playerbase using them. Nuff said?

If enough of you engage in it, FDev will think that it works regardless of what we say on here and more of this kind of rubbish will be made. Remember we are a minority of the player base on the forums. So vote by not engaging in it.

It's what I did with engineers as did a load of others. Now it is a far more enjoyable experience for me anyway. Still needs improving though such as USS mechanics and the mechanics of planet prospecting by hopefully these will get better in Q4.

But doing it then moaning about it will not achieve anything. Don't do it and come up with better ways to do it may get us somewhere.

I'd like to know how you quantify the relationships between the engineer change - the vocal players who asked and asked and asked and asked, and YELLED AND SCREAMED, for it to be changed, and those that simply said and did nothing.

You think the latter had more weight do you?

You don't know very much about human society do you.

Slavery got changed by them saying nothing, yes? Votes for women got changed by them saying nothing, human rights got changed by the opressed saying nothing. Segragation got changed by saying nothing... I could go on and on.

The only way humans seem to know that maybe they should do something about a particular issue is by enough people telling and yelling and screaming and protesting and rioting and every other form of dispay that says "we are not happy about this" - and even then sometimes it requires a Tsunami of millions to get something done. - Wars have been fought with hundreds of thousands dead, because those that didn't want to change thought that was the better option.

But being quiet and saying nothing isn't one of them.

"Not doing it at all" isnt the other option, because FDev can't tell if you're not doing it in protest, or not doing it because you're off doing something else in the game - ironically unless you TELL THEM why you're not doing it.

You can't even vote with your money in "beyond" because there's no fees, and "not buying cosmetics" isn't a visible protest either because lots of people who love the game don't buy cosmetics for financial reasons.

*sigh* he doesn't get it does he?

 

[Genus]

I'm going to try one last time.

Statement - you don't need nice trainers or shoes to live. 2 bits of tree bark with vine straps would work perfectly fine.

But say you'd like some nicer footwear.

You are given 2 options how you can earn them:

#1 - spend 2 hours sweeping up leaves into a large bin - then you have to tip it all out, and start again. You have to do this 10 times - you can do it all at once or over a year - but during that year you can't engage in any other activity that requires "shoes".**

#2 - over three days, spend 25 hours playing "the crystal Maze" with friends or fun and engaging strangers, solving puzzles, each different and educational.

Choose.

the analogy should be obvious.

** just in case this isn't clear - Max saying "don't grind it out all at once" means players are having to postpone experiencing the content that uses the guardian weapons. If they want to experience the Thargoid content using the guardian weapons "all at once" is the ONLY OPTION, that makes realistic sense.

Maybe FDev though that players would just mooch about and collect the stuff "as and when they found it" - but FDev's track record of correctly judging player behaviour is non existant.

Stop making me rep you, only to find out I can't.

It's demotivating.

 

[crushdepth]

no that is not what I am saying and have never said that. I have mentioned a number of ways in this very thread that would have made the experience better.

Look, the best way to tell FDev that it is a poor mechanic is to not do it.

If enough of you engage in it, FDev will think that it works regardless of what we say on here and more of this kind of rubbish will be made. Remember we are a minority of the player base on the forums. So vote by not engaging in it.

It's what I did with engineers as did a load of others. Now it is a far more enjoyable experience for me anyway. Still needs improving though such as USS mechanics and the mechanics of planet prospecting by hopefully these will get better in Q4.

But doing it then moaning about it will not achieve anything. Don't do it and come up with better ways to do it may get us somewhere.

I think the best way to tell FD that something is a poor mechanic is to actually tell them its a poor mechanic.

"Not doing grind X" doesn't work, eg. Powerplay is still with us. I saw a recent interview with Sandro, and he said that they think engineering ships is a lot of *fun*.

There's a real disconnect going on. Either that or they're churning out the grind for purely economic reasons (it's cheap).

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Why bother buying any game then? The all point of a game is to entertain people and push them to do better and better through level advancement, and/or through making their character better with upgrades, among other tricks. As a matter of fact, i think it's an essential part of the game, one that makes players interested in continuing to play. We don't want to lose nor ignore those tools, we just want them to be less tedious (better mechanics). We don't have to agree on everything of course. You presented your opinion, you suggested the way you think it should be handled, I respect your position but I also wanted to point out that you seem to be part of the minority (28 pages of ppl agree so far).

WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND. I want to use those tools too.

But I will not do something that I find boring and unenjoyable to get those tools. It is that simple.

This is what I have been saying from the start and people can't seem to understand this for some reason.

I agree the games are for entertainment, but I disagree that you should feel the need to be lead around with a
carrot dangling in front of you to feel entertained.

ED is not a level/progression based game. Its all about choices. Your goals are your own, you decide what they are. You want the guardian modules, that is a choice you make.

Do I want those modules. Yes. Do I need them to play any aspect of the the game. No.

I will not put myself through a whole heap of rubbish, boring grind and be unentertained to get something I don't need (and nobody needs them).

I will wait until they do something better.

How else can I say this to get you to understand my thinking on this.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I'm going to try one last time.

Statement - you don't need nice trainers or shoes to live. 2 bits of tree bark with vine straps would work perfectly fine.

But say you'd like some nicer footwear.

You are given 2 options how you can earn them:

#1 - spend 2 hours sweeping up leaves into a large bin - then you have to tip it all out, and start again. You have to do this 10 times - you can do it all at once or over a year - but during that year you can't engage in any other activity that requires "shoes".**

#2 - over three days, spend 25 hours playing "the crystal Maze" with friends or fun and engaging strangers, solving puzzles, each different and educational.

Choose.

the analogy should be obvious.

** just in case this isn't clear - Max saying "don't grind it out all at once" means players are having to postpone experiencing the content that uses the guardian weapons. If they want to experience the Thargoid content using the guardian weapons "all at once" is the ONLY OPTION, that makes realistic sense.

Maybe FDev though that players would just mooch about and collect the stuff "as and when they found it" - but FDev's track record of correctly judging player behaviour is non existant.

Sweet Jesus, you people are dumb today. I am not saying that regarding the guardian ruins. I am saying don't do them at all.

Engineered modules are better then them and far easier to get. Hence the reason why I won't bother.

I would like them, but I choose to so something more worthwhile and fun in my gaming time for something I don't need.

I think the best way to tell FD that something is a poor mechanic is to actually tell them its a poor mechanic.

"Not doing grind X" doesn't work, eg. Powerplay is still with us. I saw a recent interview with Sandro, and he said that they think engineering ships is a lot of *fun*.

There's a real disconnect going on. Either that or they're churning out the grind for purely economic reasons (it's cheap).

Yes I agree and have said it a number of times. But you gotta not do it too. Your forum accounts are not linked to your commander account so they don't know. The best way to complain is do both, which is what I am doing.

I won't complain about it and do it regardless.

If FDev see people are engaging with the "personal narative", then they will ad more of this kind of stuff.

So I implore all of you to stop.

 

[MAUXUS]

WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND. I want to use those tools too.

Great! so we are on the same page then.

I count about 4.5 hours just spent for transfers. That sounds terrible.

Missed this, sorry. And you don't wanna know how much it cost me...then they wonder why people are after "easy" money

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Great! so we are on the same page then.

Yup we are.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

When I engage in some activity I always consider the cost. Often it is time. But sometimes I have to consider loss of brain cells, and I'm not willing to risk any brain cells repeating a dull job over and over again.

So I skip it. Just like I skipped engineers. In fact I ended up skipping the whole game altogether - it just became too annoying to play.

You see there is a balance: Fun goes in on the one side - crap on the other. Can be MTX, stupid grind, laggy connections, bugs, power creep etc. The balance tips, I flip the table.

Now, I don't know why these unicorn modules raise such a fuss. It's just some equipment locked behind a grindwall. OK, you do it once, then pray to lord jebus and never do it again, or just entirely skip it.
No big deal, that engineer hamster wheel is far worse. And do you guys know what I really hate about the idea of hamster wheeling? It's because the devs can always move their goalposts at their own discretion and "balance" it to have us keep runniing in the hamster wheel.

 

[Muetdhiver]

I finally completed the new guardian mission with a friend (13h to complete). Here is my overall opinion :

1) graphics and ambiance are top notch. Kudos to the people who delivered this. The slight amount of fog/dust at some sites makes for quite an experience with the SRV floodlights at sunset. The guardian drones are really cool too. Loved it overall.

2) items combos and puzzle: nothing hard here. Collecting the thargoid stuff was quite fun. Only gripe was that orbs where absent from all sites except the last one.

3) pillars activation and blueprints : fun to do once per site. A shame that a wing cannot scan it at the same time. Final tally with no grind is 6 weapon blueprints and 1 module blueprint.

4) locating sites : frustrating without a guide. A daisy chain like for the thargoid sites would have helped a lot.

5) payout : 58M is nice, nothing more to say here.

Overall the mission is really good, baring the missing daisy chain mechanic to locate further sites. 4.5/6 grade.

Now...

Module blueprints. Sorry FD but you went full here.

Either....

1) have sites give 3 blueprints per scan

2) reduce costs to 1-3 blueprints per module

3) (what it should have been) each site with lore about a given guardian modules give the corresponding blueprint. (E.g. guardian pp blurprint). Tie this with sites daisy chaining and it would have been perfect.

IMO at this stage the only graceful thing to do is to cut the blueprint cost to 1-3. I won't be grinding those for sure, but I will enjoy using the gauss canon.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Why bother buying any game then? The all point of a game is to entertain people and push them to do better and better through level advancement, and/or through making their character better with upgrades, among other tricks. As a matter of fact, i think it's an essential part of the game, one that makes players interested in continuing to play. We don't want to lose nor ignore those tools, we just want them to be less tedious (better mechanics). We don't have to agree on everything of course. You presented your opinion, you suggested the way you think it should be handled, I respect your position but I also wanted to point out that you seem to be part of the minority (28 pages of ppl agree so far).

Also remember you paid for these "updates and content" - they weren't given away for free but apparently, when crap gameplay is added the way to handle that is simply not play it - I've never heard that in 40 years of gaming.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Sure! The PP forum subsection is so active, it must have at least two new posts a day! I mean everyone loves abysmal timer based gameplay (without the option to shortcut by spending money!).
And CQC! When you click matchmake, your router exploded because there are so many connections at once!

Come on! FD do not rework stuff that isn't being used. I also bet they never touch multiscrew again, or at least they won't add new roles that are not combat focused.

http://steamcharts.com/app/443080

I don't know what you're on about. There's literally ONE person playing right now and a peak of 3 in the last 24 hours. It's amazingly popular which is why FDev aren't working on it. What we need to do is get less people playing it then apparently, FDev will fix it (even though Sandro himself stated that if MC wasn't used it would get developed NO FURTHER!)

Isn't it funny how selective memory helps to try and make arguments not have so many holes in them?

 

[Jex =TE=]

three words:

CqC - Powerplay - multicrew.

unchanged - AT ALL, despite almost no-one of the playerbase using them. Nuff said?




I'd like to know how you quantify the relationships between the engineer change - the vocal players who asked and asked and asked and asked, and YELLED AND SCREAMED, for it to be changed, and those that simply said and did nothing.

You think the latter had more weight do you?

You don't know very much about human society do you.

Slavery got changed by them saying nothing, yes? Votes for women got changed by them saying nothing, human rights got changed by the opressed saying nothing. Segragation got changed by saying nothing... I could go on and on.

The only way humans seem to know that maybe they should do something about a particular issue is by enough people telling and yelling and screaming and protesting and rioting and every other form of dispay that says "we are not happy about this" - and even then sometimes it requires a Tsunami of millions to get something done. - Wars have been fought with hundreds of thousands dead, because those that didn't want to change thought that was the better option.

But being quiet and saying nothing isn't one of them.

"Not doing it at all" isnt the other option, because FDev can't tell if you're not doing it in protest, or not doing it because you're off doing something else in the game - ironically unless you TELL THEM why you're not doing it.

You can't even vote with your money in "beyond" because there's no fees, and "not buying cosmetics" isn't a visible protest either because lots of people who love the game don't buy cosmetics for financial reasons.

*sigh* he doesn't get it does he?

How about a poem...

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

[Knightshark]

http://steamcharts.com/app/443080

I don't know what you're on about. There's literally ONE person playing right now and a peak of 3 in the last 24 hours. It's amazingly popular which is why FDev aren't working on it. What we need to do is get less people playing it then apparently, FDev will fix it (even though Sandro himself stated that if MC wasn't used it would get developed NO FURTHER!)

Isn't it funny how selective memory helps to try and make arguments not have so many holes in them?

I was being sarcastic! I thought given the numbers you posted this will be obvious!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

three words:

CqC - Powerplay - multicrew.

unchanged - AT ALL, despite almost no-one of the playerbase using them. Nuff said?




I'd like to know how you quantify the relationships between the engineer change - the vocal players who asked and asked and asked and asked, and YELLED AND SCREAMED, for it to be changed, and those that simply said and did nothing.

You think the latter had more weight do you?

You don't know very much about human society do you.

Slavery got changed by them saying nothing, yes? Votes for women got changed by them saying nothing, human rights got changed by the opressed saying nothing. Segragation got changed by saying nothing... I could go on and on.

The only way humans seem to know that maybe they should do something about a particular issue is by enough people telling and yelling and screaming and protesting and rioting and every other form of dispay that says "we are not happy about this" - and even then sometimes it requires a Tsunami of millions to get something done. - Wars have been fought with hundreds of thousands dead, because those that didn't want to change thought that was the better option.

But being quiet and saying nothing isn't one of them.

"Not doing it at all" isnt the other option, because FDev can't tell if you're not doing it in protest, or not doing it because you're off doing something else in the game - ironically unless you TELL THEM why you're not doing it.

You can't even vote with your money in "beyond" because there's no fees, and "not buying cosmetics" isn't a visible protest either because lots of people who love the game don't buy cosmetics for financial reasons.

*sigh* he doesn't get it does he?

Engineers. They were changed because people were not engaging with it and it being a component.

CQC isn't even part of the game and powerplay is something that they want to change when they have the chance. They see that it has issues. But they obviously have other priorities in regards to Powerplay. Not touching powerplay ios not going to cause anyone any issues as it is a separate layer on top of the rest of the game.

The guardian / thargoid narrative though is something I would expect them to want us to engage in.

If we are not it means they have made a mistake and hopefully change it.

But carry on grinding if that is what you want to do.
Sounds like lunacy to me.

 

[PuffyEichhorst]

I cannot understand, why someone want to have the guardian stuff at all...obviously the guardians lost the war with their equipment...

 

[Mengy]

If powerplay was super popular they would of been building on that too. But it isn't.

People cite PP and CQC. Yes good examples. They have been left to die because nobody does it. If people do it the it will not be left to die and they will add more.

Here is the thing though, and it's what Sandro gets wrong every time: PP and CQC aren't popular BECAUSE they have been implemented so terribly. It's not that people don't want to do them both, they just don't want to play them as the broken messes they are now.

If Frontier bothered to fix and improve them both then they would get used. Same with Multicrew. And now wing missions to a degree. And now Tech Brokers.