According to the Trade specialization tool that's been linked several times, you can have some weak links to Industrial.
Requirements to produce CMM Composites
- Thread starter SteveWW57
- Start date
Or high-tech or military, which also consume CMM composites.
But unless you've got a good source of every refinery product except CMM elsewhere already, best to avoid all three even at the "1 weak link" level. CMM is anomalously resilient.
My rocky body with bio signals does produce CMM in the T1 surface port I built. The terraforming influence (on a body that is not actually terraformable) removes the polymers and semiconductors.
I have just completed a T2 refinery hub on the same body and this is sufficient to neutralise the effect. The surface port is now producing polymers (>500k) and semiconductors (>80k), and I have significantly increased supply of all the other commodities originally produced.
Here are some of my surface ports that produce CMM , it was an experiment but u can see economy influence in inara now and it should give people an idea. Ideally i'd prefer what i have at port 1 but i was experimenting to get my own data anyway. I had extraction things built in system before weak links were a thing so that is something i'd avoid in future.
https://inara.cz/elite/station/824684/ port 1
https://inara.cz/elite/station/822884/ port 2
https://inara.cz/elite/station/806782/ port 3
https://inara.cz/elite/station/824684/ port 1
https://inara.cz/elite/station/822884/ port 2
https://inara.cz/elite/station/806782/ port 3
Here is what I did:
T1 civilian ground port
followed by 1 refinery hub
I built this on a HMC world with no rings.
I have a decent population in this system, so it produces enough CMMs to build a T3.
There is a weak link in the system to a T2 starport that has a refinery economy, but I don't think that played much role in getting CMM and Ceramics.
T1 civilian ground port
followed by 1 refinery hub
I built this on a HMC world with no rings.
I have a decent population in this system, so it produces enough CMMs to build a T3.
There is a weak link in the system to a T2 starport that has a refinery economy, but I don't think that played much role in getting CMM and Ceramics.
Wow, I'm glad i found this thread. I've been combing over the details of it and as a result have completely re-worked my plan. I have three systems, and a rough plan, but need some help.
System 1 - Refinery system
None of the three systems have a good setup for rocky planets, so the best I could come up with is a RMC with no volcanism, yes bio signals, 5 ground slots and 2 space slots (1 being taken up by a commercial port as the initial port). Next to it is an RMC with no volcanism, no bio signals, 3 ground slots and 0 space slots. The initial idea was to build a surface out post on the first one (for population and composites), along with 4 refinery hubs for strong links, and a Coriolis in orbit. On the 2nd planet 3 refinery hubs for weak links. The rest of the space slots in the system were going to be farms (to boost standard of living) and relay / security installations (to boost security).
1. Are those bio signals on the first planet going to mess up my refinery production? I know agriculture isn't supposed to mess up refinery much, but I don't know how much 'much' is.
2. Same question about the space farms
3. I know the military generated by the security stations is a no no for refinery economies because they eat CMMs, but how else am i supposed to boost security?
System 2 - Industrial system
This one has three ice planets: #1 no volcanism, yes bio, 5 ground slots, 2 space slots. #2 no volcanism, no bio, 3 ground slots, 2 space slots. #3 no volcanism, no bio, 3 ground slots, 1 space slots. Original plan was to build a planetary outpost on #1 withe industrial hubs for strong links, Coriolis in orbit, and industrial hubs on #2 and #3 for week links.
1. I was planning to build a outpost in the refinery system for the materials that needed to be produced on the surface, but I don't have that issue with industrial. Is it still good to have for the population? Or should I replace it with another hub?
2. Not sure how bio signals affect industrial?
3. Also no sure what the economies to avoid for industrial systems, so not sure how the farms and security stations will affect these.
System 3 - Extraction / High Tech / Tourism
This is my 'for fun' system that wanted to raise the tech as high as possible and have some tourist spots. There's a lot of rings and belts so i thought about extraction for the wealth.
1. Is something in the Extraction / High Tech / Tourism combo going to cannibalize the other economies?
2. Same questions about the farms and security stations.
System 1 - Refinery system
None of the three systems have a good setup for rocky planets, so the best I could come up with is a RMC with no volcanism, yes bio signals, 5 ground slots and 2 space slots (1 being taken up by a commercial port as the initial port). Next to it is an RMC with no volcanism, no bio signals, 3 ground slots and 0 space slots. The initial idea was to build a surface out post on the first one (for population and composites), along with 4 refinery hubs for strong links, and a Coriolis in orbit. On the 2nd planet 3 refinery hubs for weak links. The rest of the space slots in the system were going to be farms (to boost standard of living) and relay / security installations (to boost security).
1. Are those bio signals on the first planet going to mess up my refinery production? I know agriculture isn't supposed to mess up refinery much, but I don't know how much 'much' is.
2. Same question about the space farms
3. I know the military generated by the security stations is a no no for refinery economies because they eat CMMs, but how else am i supposed to boost security?
System 2 - Industrial system
This one has three ice planets: #1 no volcanism, yes bio, 5 ground slots, 2 space slots. #2 no volcanism, no bio, 3 ground slots, 2 space slots. #3 no volcanism, no bio, 3 ground slots, 1 space slots. Original plan was to build a planetary outpost on #1 withe industrial hubs for strong links, Coriolis in orbit, and industrial hubs on #2 and #3 for week links.
1. I was planning to build a outpost in the refinery system for the materials that needed to be produced on the surface, but I don't have that issue with industrial. Is it still good to have for the population? Or should I replace it with another hub?
2. Not sure how bio signals affect industrial?
3. Also no sure what the economies to avoid for industrial systems, so not sure how the farms and security stations will affect these.
System 3 - Extraction / High Tech / Tourism
This is my 'for fun' system that wanted to raise the tech as high as possible and have some tourist spots. There's a lot of rings and belts so i thought about extraction for the wealth.
1. Is something in the Extraction / High Tech / Tourism combo going to cannibalize the other economies?
2. Same questions about the farms and security stations.
+0.15 refinery economy from 3 weak links is unlikely to be worth having. If you make one of them another T1 surface port you'll get a lot more refined goods that way.
The only refinery product which Agriculture consumes is Biowaste, which is easy enough to get from other sources.
However the bio signals will also add the Terraforming economy, which consumes Polymers, Semiconductors, Superconductors, Gold and Silver. If you do build a T1 surface port on the other planet as well that will give you somewhere which can produce those.
Those are safer, since they just produce Agricultural influence.
Two main options here.
Option 1: security buildings which don't generate military weak links
1) A Military T1 outpost gives +2 security and provided it's the only port orbiting that planet won't generate a weak link. So you can put one each of those around spare planets.
2) A Government installation gives +2 security as well as other boosts, is cheaper to build, has no economy type at all ... but does use T2 points you'll probably want to save for the hubs.
In this case because building up security is fairly slow, unless you have a lot of spare slots don't expect to get to high security - just balancing out the other things you're building to stay above zero will be a lot of work
Option 2: put an Anarchy faction in charge of the system, so that most of the effects of the Security variable become irrelevant.
Planetary outposts give a lot of population which means a lot of production.
Again, weak links are pretty worthless for adding production - you get +0.05 per link, whereas another surface port in the same slot would give you +1 or more.
Another thought: rather than industrial hubs, consider industrial settlements - they're cheaper to build, the T2 gives the same strong links as a hub, there's a T1 variant to get you T2 points, they don't damage standard of living at all, and they have a really good boost to development level which is a major contributor to market sizes. Also you'll get a more interesting choice of missions involving them later.
Both Agriculture and Terraforming consume industrial products. Avoid for the planet with the Coriolis.
You can build a T1 surface outpost with Industrial as its baseline economy - that completely ignores the planet type, so you can put that on the bio-signal world and be fine.
Every other economy consumes industrial products, and most economies consume most industrial products. Try to avoid weak links of any other type. Government installations give enough standard-of-living boost that you probably don't need the farms, though - since Industrial, unlike Refinery, won't be reducing standard of living in the first place.
Yes, this system is going to be a complete mess for economic production and consumption, so don't worry about it. You'll get most but not all minerals for export out of the Extraction stations (since most but not all of them are only consumed by Refinery) and you'll get a few of the high-tech goods which are only needed by Refinery/Industrial, but everything else will be down to luck and the details of exactly what you build.
Mostly that's fine as you weren't planning to use it for trade in the first place - but you can get some uninterrupted high-tech output to help with local colonisation supplies by picking any planet with at least two slots, and building two HT surface T1 outposts on it (using the type which comes with its own high-tech economy, which is also another +5 tech level each time) - one of the outposts will shield the other from weak links, giving you a single-type HT economy with high production levels and a large landing pad.
This is great stuff. I didn't think I'd need a PhD to figure out colonization, but this defiantly helps. A few follow up questions...
When you say T1 surface port, do you mean the Planetary Outposts (I thought those were Tier 2?) or a T1 Settlement?
When you say the T2 gives the same strong links as a Hub, does that mean it also gives out the same production as a Hub? And if so, why would I ever pick a Hub over a T2 Settlement?
So just to confirm this...I'll get more from a Coriolis doing it this way over a 3 slot planet than the 5 slot because the bio signals jam it up that much?
I believe we're referring to 2 Planetary Port Scientific Outposts, correct? I have a few with 2 and 3 slots, and one icy with 5 slots. So for good HT exports, can I do the 2 ports and 3 hubs? And can I add a Coriolis above this as well?
When you say T1 surface port, do you mean the Planetary Outposts (I thought those were Tier 2?) or a T1 Settlement?
When you say the T2 gives the same strong links as a Hub, does that mean it also gives out the same production as a Hub? And if so, why would I ever pick a Hub over a T2 Settlement?
So just to confirm this...I'll get more from a Coriolis doing it this way over a 3 slot planet than the 5 slot because the bio signals jam it up that much?
I believe we're referring to 2 Planetary Port Scientific Outposts, correct? I have a few with 2 and 3 slots, and one icy with 5 slots. So for good HT exports, can I do the 2 ports and 3 hubs? And can I add a Coriolis above this as well?
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Colonisation exposes to "players might actually need to care about this" level a huge amount of background detail in how markets work [1], which pre-colonisation if you didn't know this yourself (and most people didn't) you could get an answer to your pre-colonisation question (where do I buy/sell X?) with an Inara search - or EDDB, if we're going back far enough - which bypassed the need to understand any of it.
Now players are asking more complicated questions about this and there's no substitute for understanding what's going on.
[1] "This iceberg is a mile wide but only an inch deep" as the saying goes.
Planetary Outposts - yes, they're tier 1 despite having population and market size comparable to a Tier 2.
Same production effect on other markets, plus it has a small market (and other dockable services) of its own.
Many of the hubs are just generally worse in terms of system stats compared with the equivalent T2 settlement. Of course you might want a hub because you like running hub missions later. In a large system you're not going to need to hyper-optimise system stats anyway.
You'll get substantially more Polymers, Semiconductors and Superconductors.
You might get less of the others but really a Coriolis is likely to be producing more than enough of those in either situation unless your goal is "feed the surprise metals CG which showed up next door"
Correct.
Yes - though:
- the hubs (or settlements) will only attach to one of the outposts, not the other (on the other hand, the one they don't attach to won't be picking up conflicting weak links so won't need those attachments as much)
- the Coriolis will pick up all that HT, but also Industrial from the icy planet, and various weak links of various types from elsewhere in the system. It'll be a bit of a mess but you'll still get some of the more common HT commodities, plus things like Resonating Separators which only Refinery consumes.
What is the type of planet you have this on! is it a HMC or Rocky/HMC with/without atmosphere?
With or without atmosphere doesnt matter when it comes to economies , it matters if it has organics or geology that can sway the economy.
Terraformable HMC with a thin sulphur dioxide atmosphere.
Oodles of construction materials at the T1 surface port. I have since built an additional refinery for 4x refineries in total on that planet.
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