Won't stop those who like ganking players in smaller ships from the comfort of their engineered end game ships.
Resolving the Griefer Issues
- Thread starter Hooplah
- Start date
Won't stop those who like ganking players in smaller ships from the comfort of their engineered end game ships.
And rinzler has posted his git gud guide showing how to get away even in sluggish trade ships (to say nothing of smaller, speedier, more agile ships) from interdictions and gankers. Those who don't watch it, don't care because he's SDC, or just insist on playing their way and screaming it should work, deserve to get blown up. Even newcomers to the game should be smart enough to realise this is a bit different of games they normally play and find their way to the forums to learn.
This isn't some call of duty or counter strike or overwatch fps.. it's a flight/ space sim/ arcade game with insane depth. Those who choose to willingly remain ignorant pay the price via the rebuy screen... or just flee to their safe space version of space in Mobius or Solo.
The smaller ships can easily get away from bigger ships with any decent sort of average skill level (don't need to be some elitist god), unless they don't even have that...at which point you shouldn't care because you don't cater to the lowest common denominator.
Not true, I lost my conda recently to a scrub with no shields who had intentionally removed 90 percent of his hull before leaving the station. I submitted a bug report with NO response from FD. The whole premise of losing your ship for getting bumped intentionally by another ship is dumb. The flip side an Cmdr exploiting the system can shoot and kill other Cmdr's with NO response from the station. Which do you think is worse in an orbital in space, firing a weapon INSIDE an orbital or going 5 m/sec to fast???????
The basic problem with this whole issue is players who exploit every little tweak and glitch in the game are being allowed to kill unwanted players with no recourse. This is an attempt at trying to right the problem. The solution is getting thrashed by the murderers who do not want to be held accountable to their actions. All I have seen is garbage thrown on the table by the murders themselves they the other 95 percent of the Cmdrs need to play ED their way. This is all about control. It is why they whine like a little baby when somebody Clog's. I can't tell you the number of times I have seen and pursued murderers in CG systems. They interdict some poor soul in a T-6 and 10 seconds later they T-6 is dead.
The only way to truly solve this issue is by the following.
1. Remove the ability of the murderer to jump into a ship with a smaller rebuy than they one they were flying
2. Establish a Karma for every player and the more innocent ships the Cmdr kills the stronger and swifter the security response will be.
3. Remove the ability of Cmdrs with negative Karma the ability to dock in any system that isn't in anarchy.
4. Force the murderer to pay the rebuy without their. If they don't have enough money force them into a loan and preventing further outfitting/ship purchases until the loan is paid.
5. If the Karma reaches a predetermined level the player is banned to solo play
6. Provisions must be adopted for Power Player
7. Murderer must repay any lost cartography, lost cargo and failed mission fines.
8. If during a pirating action the pirate murders the Cmdr all system facilities will be off limits to the pirate. Pirating is one thing, it however should not be a means to justify the murder of a fellow Commander.
To all my fellow Commanders if you want to see ED flourish like I do then the blood stains of murdered Commanders my be cleaned up with Justice and Righteousness. The actions of the murderers has sent thousands of Commanders onto other games. I stand by my comments here and on the post I put on Reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/4z6vh6/karma_needs_to_be_implemented_asap/
The only way to truly solve this issue is by the following.
1. Remove the ability of the murderer to jump into a ship with a smaller rebuy than they one they were flying
2. Establish a Karma for every player and the more innocent ships the Cmdr kills the stronger and swifter the security response will be.
3. Remove the ability of Cmdrs with negative Karma the ability to dock in any system that isn't in anarchy.
4. Force the murderer to pay the rebuy without their. If they don't have enough money force them into a loan and preventing further outfitting/ship purchases until the loan is paid.
5. If the Karma reaches a predetermined level the player is banned to solo play
6. Provisions must be adopted for Power Player
7. Murderer must repay any lost cartography, lost cargo and failed mission fines.
8. If during a pirating action the pirate murders the Cmdr all system facilities will be off limits to the pirate. Pirating is one thing, it however should not be a means to justify the murder of a fellow Commander.
To all my fellow Commanders if you want to see ED flourish like I do then the blood stains of murdered Commanders my be cleaned up with Justice and Righteousness. The actions of the murderers has sent thousands of Commanders onto other games. I stand by my comments here and on the post I put on Reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/4z6vh6/karma_needs_to_be_implemented_asap/
The President of the United States is a position which is designed to unify the country and lead the country to prosperity.
Do I need to say more...?
You would have to say more for me to be able to gather your meaning. But it might be better to find a way to say it without involving real world politics.
It's great that people want to deter toxic behaviors in the game, but the implementation and the selective individuals who will carry out duties as entailed by the OP is just asking for trouble. This forum and its past moderation history if anything is solid proof if you don't want to involve "real world history".
Human intervention should be kept to minimum while rules and actual automated mechanics should take the front stage, otherwise it's asking for biased enforcement/moderation.
Keeping humans in the loop and affording them a reasonable degree of discretion is the only effective way to prevent the system being gamed by people acting in bad faith and/or unreasonably punishing those acting in good faith. It works very well in reality even though it has to balance with the need for impartial enforcement. It certainly works in games, where nobody is entitled to anything and the developer has absolute authority to enforce whatever rules it wants in whatever manner it wishes to.
It's good for the line to be a little blurry. Discourages people from going near it in the first place.
The problem is the implementation of that.
FD will have to hire more employees to handle the "relatively-impartial implementation of human discretion". I don't think FD has that resource nor in the future for that matter.
Result of community based moderation is visible to all. From what happened on this forum alone, I can't imagine having another round of it in-game.
From my experience a blurry line is precisely what gives way to corruption and those looking to win "favors".
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This abomination you propose is not even near a karma system. It's a godmode lynch system. Go play Fallout 3 if you don't know what I am talking about.
On the contrary, I would hold up this forum's moderation as an example of discretion being successful in controlling those who disregard the spirit of the rules while seeking to use the letter of the rules to shield themselves from the consequences of their behaviour.
Since we're using forums as an example; the state of the ED subreddit shows clearly what can happen when moderation fails in such a core task. Unfortunately, the game itself has been left to degrade into a similar state. I don't think moderators flying around in debug ships handing down ingame justice is likely to be the solution, but the game is in desperate need of moderation which can't be gamed.
In my experience, people often cry corruption because the blurry line is stopping them from getting away with mischief.
If you kill a commander (without having a mission to do so) you pay the rebuy.
But...let's not nerf the game into unplayability. Any new player jumping straight into open play is not that bright anyway. Anyone with an IQ over that of a line dancer is going to put a few hours in on solo -> private then move to open.
But in a Galaxy where murder is officially sanctioned (and in many cases approved of by the ruling powers), then griefing is always going to be a "thing".
In reality, the ruling powers should pull out all the stops in getting the pirates/murderers wiped out, as the pirates are destroying the financial infrastructure. Another question might be why is the pilots Fed not revoking licenses? THAT! might cap a lot of griefing without cause! Without a license you absolutely cannot even approach a legit station, nor get any spares/new ships/fuel.
But...let's not nerf the game into unplayability. Any new player jumping straight into open play is not that bright anyway. Anyone with an IQ over that of a line dancer is going to put a few hours in on solo -> private then move to open.
But in a Galaxy where murder is officially sanctioned (and in many cases approved of by the ruling powers), then griefing is always going to be a "thing".
In reality, the ruling powers should pull out all the stops in getting the pirates/murderers wiped out, as the pirates are destroying the financial infrastructure. Another question might be why is the pilots Fed not revoking licenses? THAT! might cap a lot of griefing without cause! Without a license you absolutely cannot even approach a legit station, nor get any spares/new ships/fuel.
This. Provide a context for player's actions. If FD leaves it unchecked it will only get worse when ED gets released for PS4 (no offense for fellow console players).
You were evidently speeding.
And what fantasy utopia are you from?
Why would being hired to do something illegal make it less illegal?
In a sense Fang is right. In the real world we legislate for the lowest common denominator and thats why us grown ups cant do certain things because ats ruin it for everyone. If we legislate in game to prevent undesirable actions from a few individuals it will, in all likelyhood, curtail certain legitimate actions. The question is then, what do you want to sacrifice? Thats the real discussion.
Ask any soldier. Or for that matter anyone paid to exact the death penalty.
You are in essence correct, if it's illegal immoral then that's what it is.....but! somehow, for some unexplained reason, when those in charge say "Go kill them." we do and feel fully justified in doing so. In the game, some faction says "They are undercutting our prices! The bounders! a pox on all! Massacre them all! here's x creds for doing so." and suddenly wholesale slaughter is fully justified and legal....No, I don't understand it either, but that's just the way it is in the game and in reality.
Me? I'm still novice as a fighter, but a trailblazer explorer, and Broker trader. I've no time for pew-pew in this game, if I wanna blow stuff up I'll go play world of tanks or robocraft.
Anyone who doesn't like my opinions can find me halfway to Colonia (approx) hiding in an asteroid belt.
Oo another thing that can be done.
You can perma kill the Pilot. Tie the pilot name to the players account and dont allow duplicates. So when you get killed in game and all of your money and ships are gone, so is your in game identity. You start out brand new and your have lost your pilot name and everything.
That might make people thing twice about it. Not to mention it would be thematically correct. Why would a star port send out a rescue pod for a known killer. It would be easier and more efficient to let them just die.
You can perma kill the Pilot. Tie the pilot name to the players account and dont allow duplicates. So when you get killed in game and all of your money and ships are gone, so is your in game identity. You start out brand new and your have lost your pilot name and everything.
That might make people thing twice about it. Not to mention it would be thematically correct. Why would a star port send out a rescue pod for a known killer. It would be easier and more efficient to let them just die.
Not talking about morality and most laws don't count killing people in legal warfare as murder. Likewise, legally sanctioned executions aren't illegal.
You take a mission in Elite: Dangerous to kill people and those people aren't wanted and aren't in a "lawless" zone, it's just as illegal as if you didn't have a mission.
Kill a clean mission target and it's murder in any system with security. I'm not sure why CMDRs would be exempt from this in an ostensibly more strict C&P system, when they aren't now.
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The necessary differences between human players and NPCs is easily explained in-universe by tying things into the Pilots Federation. Murder an NPC and the PF couldn't care less, so all you have to deal with is the normal token gesture response from minor factions. Murder another PF member and it's them who send godmode hunter-killers after you, cancel your insurance, pressure engineers into not dealing with you and so on.