Modes Restrict or remove PvE from the game, making Open a nicer place

[Skip Rockbounder]

Hasn't this been put to bed yet?

There are in essence three kinds of player,
the guys and gals that want to play in open joining in the community but preferring not to be hauled out and shot to pieces all the time,
the guys and gals that want to shoot other players,
and
the guys and gals that can handle being in a confrontational situation but don't look for it

the guys and gals with the itchy trigger finger are in general FAR FAR better at shooting players than the guys and gals that don't wanna be shot...

DON'T COME BACK TO ME SAYING 'GET GUD' because that just shows that that you understand very little.

 

[StiTch]

I was not referring solely to credit making opportunities - I was also referring to BGS exploits.

Open play is a concern for BGS exploits...you see something new every day.

What upcoming changes "damage pretty much all PvP"?

I don't have the energy to do a detailed analysis, but in essence the recent and upcoming C&P changes boil down to a reliance on PvE mechanisms to mete punishment to offenders, and the decreased convenience of many involved PvP activities.

System authorities will seldom challenge players often experienced in dropping in somewhere, making a quick kill on the weak and scarpering. Monetary changes will barely hit them, and they will need only to dock at an anarchy system or use a different ship - which contrary to popular belief does not need to be big and expensive and over-engineered. Murder does not require a meta FDL.

On the other hand, such changes can make it nigh on impossible for a bounty hunter to exact retribution on a PvP target, and will make it a pig for pirates to play in an engaging/fun/productive way.

FD need to be shown that to improve PvP...you have to improve it. Mindless hacking at it to punish them nasty griefors will get nowhere. Allowing some input from PvP players on the subject would be most apt, because "punish them nasty griefors" is exactly what you'll get from many of the misinformed on the forum.

Frontier have realised they can't make a game which will please everyone...I'd be happy for new PvP activities to be added to the game, or for PP to be buffed - even if these affected the BGS. I want to influence the game from solo, not control it.

You answered your own concern

I am not sure why people believe FD have to cater to one or the other. As you say - there could be activities for either, and ways to influence the galaxy for either. I gotta say, your latter statement here is a thing of beauty. Thoroughly repped.

Agreed - my T9 has shields even though I never play in Open. My disability means I need help in combat, even against NPCs.

This overlaps something I addressed previously around PvE - the lack of flavour in trading. If FD could develop trade so that, for instance, the role of trade escort were appealing, you could focus on escape and allow someone to pull the wolves off you - and with a good implementation, the escort would be doing it for their own benefit rather than just for assisting you and getting a few pennies on the side.

DON'T COME BACK TO ME SAYING 'GET GUD' because that just shows that that you understand very little.

Okay...git gud.

 

[EvE4evah]

Hasn't this been put to bed yet?

There are in essence three kinds of player,
the guys and gals that want to play in open joining in the community but preferring not to be hauled out and shot to pieces all the time,
the guys and gals that want to shoot other players,
and
the guys and gals that can handle being in a confrontational situation but don't look for it

the guys and gals with the itchy trigger finger are in general FAR FAR better at shooting players than the guys and gals that don't wanna be shot...

DON'T COME BACK TO ME SAYING 'GET GUD' because that just shows that that you understand very little.

I failed to see your point, sorry

 

[Robert Maynard]

Open play is a concern for BGS exploits...you see something new every day.

Player collusion where PvP actions affect the BGS would be, yes.

.... and would apply equally to Private Groups as Open - as they are both multi-player game modes.

I don't have the energy to do a detailed analysis, but in essence the recent and upcoming C&P changes boil down to a reliance on PvE mechanisms to mete punishment to offenders, and the decreased convenience of many involved PvP activities.

System authorities will seldom challenge players often experienced in dropping in somewhere, making a quick kill on the weak and scarpering. Monetary changes will barely hit them, and they will need only to dock at an anarchy system or use a different ship - which contrary to popular belief does not need to be big and expensive and over-engineered. Murder does not require a meta FDL.

On the other hand, such changes can make it nigh on impossible for a bounty hunter to exact retribution on a PvP target, and will make it a pig for pirates to play in an engaging/fun/productive way.

FD need to be shown that to improve PvP...you have to improve it. Mindless hacking at it to punish them nasty griefors will get nowhere. Allowing some input from PvP players on the subject would be most apt, because "punish them nasty griefors" is exactly what you'll get from many of the misinformed on the forum.

Reliance on PvE mechanisms is required, in my opinion, simply because of the size of the galaxy.

The attentions of ATR may well prove to be challenging to the extent that they cannot be ignored - especially if they can stop the player high-waking (as they are expected to be able to).

Sadly, equipment that could be introduced to facilitate both PvP Bounty Hunting and PvP Piracy would also be able to be used for other purposes - and those "nasty griefors" would already seem to have done for the reputation of PvP Piracy with a significant proportion of the player-base.

The challenge with improving PvP, I expect, is ensuring that it does not have an adverse effect on the majority of players that don't choose to engage in that play-style.

 

[StiTch]

The challenge with improving PvP, I expect, is ensuring that it does not have an adverse effect on the majority of players that don't choose to engage in that play-style.

Or at least it's a convenient excuse to avoid doing the work needed to create content for all players.

I call bull that an experienced dev company cannot conceive a single piece of PvP content that integrates into the game without ruining it.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Or at least it's a convenient excuse to avoid doing the work needed to create content for all players.

I call bull that an experienced dev company cannot conceive a single piece of PvP content that integrates into the game without ruining it.

I did not say that they cannot - I referred to the challenge in doing so.

 

[Stigbob]

You can open up the "block" function from great distance

I can't imagine why you'd think the block function is relevant to a speed build courier, it's a ship of such awesome capabilities that telling PVP pro-bro's you fly one immediately shuts down their all their forum tough guy chest beating in my experience. Almost like they can only cope with really easy targets.

Or are you whinging that I started this thread four months ago : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ners-advice-on-dealing-with-griefing-(part-2)

 

[StiTch]

I can't imagine why you'd think the block function is relevant to a speed build courier, it's a ship of such awesome capabilities that telling PVP pro-bro's you fly one immediately shuts down their all their forum tough guy chest beating in my experience.

It was a comic quip. I have nothing against you personally Stig; I do weep for those that take the drastic views on blocking/griefing seriously, but end of the day, no-one is the fool but themselves. You've given me a few good laughs before, intentional or otherwise

Also, I find it hard to put down any comment in praise of the iCourier. If I had to fly just one ship in the game for all times, and I wasn't concerned for internal space, it'd be exactly that beauty.

Almost like they can only cope with really easy targets.

See this gets me. If you watch some of the vids from known "gankers", you'll notice that the generally facetious disdain of noobage extends to other gankers. Rinzler's video that popularised the dual TLB APA was laying down shame on someone that tried to attack his friend, and then combat logged when Rinzler laid down the law on him.

Any proposal I've made towards C&P has very much been aimed at balancing PvP, alongside trying for some engaging/risky/rewarding PvE activity. You have no idea how happy I would be for a game that allows PvP bounty hunters to scourge the lesser murderers and harass the more capable ones, where at least the more capable ones could put the terrorism to some kind of use.

TL;DR: PvPers are well aware there are some murderers that go for easy targets only and cannot handle themselves in a proper PvP fight - and many PvPers are in the line to punish them.

 

[Stigbob]

It was a comic quip. I have nothing against you personally Stig; I do weep for those that take the drastic views on blocking/griefing seriously, but end of the day, no-one is the fool but themselves. You've given me a few good laughs before, intentional or otherwise

Also, I find it hard to put down any comment in praise of the iCourier. If I had to fly just one ship in the game for all times, and I wasn't concerned for internal space, it'd be exactly that beauty.

See this gets me. If you watch some of the vids from known "gankers", you'll notice that the generally facetious disdain of noobage extends to other gankers. Rinzler's video that popularised the dual TLB APA was laying down shame on someone that tried to attack his friend, and then combat logged when Rinzler laid down the law on him.

Any proposal I've made towards C&P has very much been aimed at balancing PvP, alongside trying for some engaging/risky/rewarding PvE activity. You have no idea how happy I would be for a game that allows PvP bounty hunters to scourge the lesser murderers and harass the more capable ones, where at least the more capable ones could put the terrorism to some kind of use.

TL;DR: PvPers are well aware there are some murderers that go for easy targets only and cannot handle themselves in a proper PvP fight - and many PvPers are in the line to punish them.

Even if that wasn't a well written intelligent and funny post I'd have repped you just for "facetious disdain of noobage". No-one should ever take games or forums too seriously.

 

[Goose4291]

Also, I find it hard to put down any comment in praise of the iCourier. If I had to fly just one ship in the game for all times, and I wasn't concerned for internal space, it'd be exactly that beauty.

You misspelt Adder again.

 

[StiTch]

Even if that wasn't a well written intelligent and funny post I'd have repped you just for "facetious disdain of noobage". No-one should ever take games or forums too seriously.

I feel a new ship name coming on...

You misspelt Adder again.

And I know the ship to apply it to

Actually, I have a new account allowed to earn money via piracy/illegal activities only, and I fell in love with the adder. It felt like doing a bike track day on a small cruiser; it wouldn't keep up with a high-end ship for all the tea in china, but hot damn I couldn't have cared less.

 

[StonedThoughts]

But we are the goon squad and we're coming to to town. Beep beep. [sad]

Totally OT and not even in a real correlation with your post... but i had this one damn song in my head for weeks, not able to find or even remember it correctly and tada there it is
Have some Rep and if we should ever meet, i totally owe you one!

Cheers and off to permanent loop...

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVBubpQbkg8

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Totally OT and not even in a real correlation with your post... but i had this one damn song in my head for weeks, not able to find or even remember it correctly and tada there it is
Have some Rep and if we should ever meet, i totally owe you one!

Cheers and off to permanent loop...

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVBubpQbkg8

Glad to hear that useless post served a purpose after all.

Funky sound btw.

 

[Roybe]

Most toxic are those players who cannot stand the fact that PvP doesn't dominate the whole game.
Belittling, insults, all kinds of negative behaviour comes from them. The perceived "toxicity" of those who (foolishly) respond that behaviour is just the trolls projecting their world view to their victims.

Even the OP's title suggests that Open is being held hostage! LOL!

 

[EvE4evah]

The problem itself ain't the existence of seal clubbing and murderhoboing, it's the inexistence of effective methods of hunting them in-game, thanks to the net structure of the game, which is also a main problem for many other features such as trying to implement real time Thargoid station aggression with CMDR interactivity at the same time.

 

[Roybe]

Or at least it's a convenient excuse to avoid doing the work needed to create content for all players.

I call bull that an experienced dev company cannot conceive a single piece of PvP content that integrates into the game without ruining it.

I agree that this bunch of talented devs COULD do something that would allow impactful play in the game for PVP players...I just believe they don't want to and don't care about the PVP players and their histrionics enough to change their original vision, that PVP is only achieved through PVE movement of trophies, so that all players have an equal input into the game.

 

[Roybe]

The problem itself ain't the existence of seal clubbing and murderhoboing, it's the inexistence of effective methods of hunting them in-game, thanks to the net structure of the game, which is also a main problem for many other features such as trying to implement real time Thargoid station aggression with CMDR interactivity at the same time.

That can certainly happen...player interactivity...IF players desire that activity. If they don't then nothing anyone says will force them to interact if they do not desire it. It's a beautiful concept if you look at it.

 

[EvE4evah]

That can certainly happen...player interactivity...IF players desire that activity. If they don't then nothing anyone says will force them to interact if they do not desire it. It's a beautiful concept if you look at it.

We're talking about Open here, Roybe.


Obviously, any player NOT wanting player interactivity (such as Phos, for example) is more than welcome into Solo mode, it was specifically designed for those players. As many many many people including Robert have already pointed out inan infinite number of threads.

Edit: removed silly sentence.

 

[StiTch]

This is good and should be done at every opportunity. The newbie killers and murderers that only go after easy targets give a bad name to PVPers as a whole

At the end of the day, it's any murderers choice and right to do what they do. What is lacking is even a semblance of balance of choice and consequence, or of risk and reward. A terrorist organisation should have every ability to exact change on the galaxy around them; however it should not be easy to do so.

On the topic of generalisation, it'd be mighty helpful if people remembered that one's in game choices are just that. No need for players anywhere on the spectrum to resort to armchair psychology. That's gonna get messy and counterproductive before it's started.

While hunting the murderers (the ones that only attack newbies or easy targets mind you) the peer to peer and instancing often works against you. As well as the platform/region/time zone issues.

ED's networking really, really needs some TLC, but that's an unequivocal benefit to everyone, no questions asked.

There are also a number of changes that could be made to PvP that would improve bounty hunting and playstyles other than murder, but as a general rule they get shot down simply for advocating positive PvP changes. You mention PvP and improvements...stop trying to drag prey to open!

Even the OP's title suggests that Open is being held hostage! LOL!

Agreed. It's an awful title, isn't it?

I agree that this bunch of talented devs COULD do something that would allow impactful play in the game for PVP players...I just believe they don't want to and don't care about the PVP players and their histrionics enough to change their original vision, that PVP is only achieved through PVE movement of trophies, so that all players have an equal input into the game.

I will drop the urge to paste fifty various gifs showing laughter at the notion PvP players are the histrionic ones, and simply thank you for an honest evaluation.

It is not true at all that all players have an equal input into the game, but at least you're among the first I've seen to confess the game isn't even trying for it.

 

[Theodrid]

TL;DR: PvPers are well aware there are some murderers that go for easy targets only and cannot handle themselves in a proper PvP fight - and many PvPers are in the line to punish them.

That sounds good Stitch but it's not the impression I am getting, the vast, vast majority of the time when noob killers post videos or announce they are leaving the game the replies from many known PVP players are 'hilarious emergent content' and 'so sorry to see another one go'.

If in fact some of you guys are hunting and berating these guys I'd like to know where I could see such dialogue and discussion because it certainly isn't on these boards or the good number of subreddits I'm aware of.