Modes Reworking the game modes

[Xevyr]

There is a not insignificant fraction of the PvP playerbase that is not interested in a level playing field.

That's because the entire PvP playerbase is 'insignificant' - Not in their existence of course, but in their numbers.. As we discussed on the first couple of pages and had some developer quotes as well about the PvP community being few in numbers but are loud in voicing their opinions

I am used to my own ship that I fly 100% of the time. I know how it handles, its strengths and weaknesses. I built it myself with what I find it needs through trial and error.
I dont know what CQC is and its irrelevant to my main game.

You mean a FAS with all the gimballed frag cannons it can carry that is pretty much good for 1 thing, killing large ships that cannot outmaneuver you and your chance of victory is pretty much a mathematical 100% regardless of pilot skills against said ships? Wait a second... When pure stats win the fight, isn't that all too similar to PvE? Maybe you're a PvE player in secret, but prefer to choose player targets, simply to ruin somebody's day.

Anyway, just dropped by to unsubscribe, cuz I keep getting emails, which are redundant, since this topic has been exhausted and nobody said anything new in the last 15 pages or so...

Cheers!

 

[ALGOMATIC]

That's because the entire PvP playerbase is 'insignificant' - Not in their existence of course, but in their numbers.. As we discussed on the first couple of pages and had some developer quotes as well about the PvP community being few in numbers but are loud in voicing their opinions


You mean a FAS with all the gimballed frag cannons it can carry that is pretty much good for 1 thing, killing large ships that cannot outmaneuver you and your chance of victory is pretty much a mathematical 100% regardless of pilot skills against said ships? Wait a second... When pure stats win the fight, isn't that all too similar to PvE? Maybe you're a PvE player in secret, but prefer to choose player targets, simply to ruin somebody's day.

Anyway, just dropped by to unsubscribe, cuz I keep getting emails, which are redundant, since this topic has been exhausted and nobody said anything new in the last 15 pages or so...

Cheers!

Cool story. I can put videos here fighting vs meta FDLs and FASs.

 

[AbsinthSvK]

Let me walk you through it;

When you buy something - do you let jealous people take it away from you or do you try to keep what you buy?

I paid for a game with equal access to all content in all modes.... that is what I paid for, that is what you paid for, that is what we all paid for.

I want to keep what I buy. That simple.

game is not gold. Also nobody say remove game modes, whole topic is about rework.
Basically with your approach you dont allow game to evolve. Ok. Nothing to discuss with you anymore, whole forum is pointless to you.

When you think games are stationary and dont change over time, you are soo wrong. You should ask for refund every update, because you know game change and you dont buy that game.

 

[Jockey79]

game is not gold. Also nobody say remove game modes, whole topic is about rework.
Basically with your approach you dont allow game to evolve. Ok. Nothing to discuss with you anymore, whole forum is pointless to you.

When you think games are stationary and dont change over time, you are soo wrong. You should ask for refund every update, because you know game change and you dont buy that game.

You want to "remove" a feature from the game it was sold with - the ability to use what mode we want with our characters.
This was a major selling point for the game.

The game also has evolved, evolving does not mean taking things away - we have had Wings, Multi-crew, Power Play, Engineers all added since the game came out. It is evolving.

How about you learn what the game is before making accusations about others motives, and stop demanding the game be something it is not.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Also nobody say remove game modes, whole topic is about rework.

Some do demand that Solo / Private Groups are removed though.

Also, the proposals to remove the effect of players in Solo and Private Groups on one or more aspects of the single shared galaxy state (i.e. leaving players in Open as the only ones able to affect those aspects) would be to remove a feature from the game - a feature that is currently advertised as being part of the game.

 

[Haggbad Celine]

Ah, but you see, many people do mind griefers, and consider them toxic, and so some leave the game completely, some go to solo or PG.

Every player gankers run off is income FDev will never see from the store to help support the game.

Every potential player who reads reviews and see it's open season on new players in starter systems and decides not to buy the game is income FDev never gets to support the game.

Griefers are a net minus to Fdev's income. That should concern you. Even if you personally are fine with being attacked by a player in a ship you have no chance of escaping or surviving the encounter with.

You know this works in both ways?
This maybe anecdotel, so it should just provide an example.
All friends of mine I started to play the game with, don't play anymore cus the mode system ruined their narrative.
There weren't PvP'lers and they didn't hate a fair amount of grind, but they hated the system for giving them the option of cheating themselves.

I do agree that new players should have some kind of puppy license.

 

[Robert Maynard]

You know this works in both ways?
This maybe anecdotel, so it should just provide an example.
All friends of mine I started to play the game with, don't play anymore cus the mode system ruined their narrative.
There weren't PvP'lers and they didn't hate a fair amount of grind, but they hated the system for giving them the option of cheating themselves.

I do agree that new players should have some kind of puppy license.

All of your friends, like every other player past and present, bought a game that, from the outset, has been (and still is) advertised as containing three game modes and a single shared galaxy state.

 

[Darkfyre99]

You know this works in both ways?
This maybe anecdotel, so it should just provide an example.
All friends of mine I started to play the game with, don't play anymore cus the mode system ruined their narrative.
There weren't PvP'lers and they didn't hate a fair amount of grind, but they hated the system for giving them the option of cheating themselves.

I do agree that new players should have some kind of puppy license.

Out of morbid curiosity, how exactly did the “Mode system [ruin] their narrative?” How were they “cheating themselves?” Because the game is identical across all three modes, the only change is how narrow or broad your social filters are. I can think of only one reason for the former, and one reason for the latter

 

[Dietger]

Some do demand that Solo / Private Groups are removed though.

Also, the proposals to remove the effect of players in Solo and Private Groups on one or more aspects of the single shared galaxy state (i.e. leaving players in Open as the only ones able to affect those aspects) would be to remove a feature from the game - a feature that is currently advertised as being part of the game.

One way to strengthen the mode system could be focus each mode in itself. Solo shares Solo player interaction, both multiplayer modes do the same, addressing each individual stance. If Frontier doesn't regard the the mode switching as an issue and a weakness for player progression, all remains as is. If not, sooner or later Frontier will come up with a change, rethinking the single shared galaxy.

While the single shared galaxy has its merits, it undeniable provides some loop holes. I am not aware, for example does notoriety, fade equally no matter what mode you choose?

 

[Brrokk]

I dont have a faction nor do I touch any BGS or PP activity with the current implementation of the game...

W... what? Then all the discussion here... 8-|

 

[Jockey79]

One way to strengthen the mode system could be focus each mode in itself. Solo shares Solo player interaction, both multiplayer modes do the same, addressing each individual stance. If Frontier doesn't regard the the mode switching as an issue and a weakness for player progression, all remains as is. If not, sooner or later Frontier will come up with a change, rethinking the single shared galaxy.

While the single shared galaxy has its merits, it undeniable provides some loop holes. I am not aware, for example does notoriety, fade equally no matter what mode you choose?

Notoriety fades as long as you are online.

And before you claim the mode system is cheating, as people can be in Solo while it fades.
People can be docked, in Open and go to bed for 8 hours while it fades as well. People can go to work and leave their game on and in Open for it to fade.
People can go to Lawlessness areas and wait for it to fade.

Lots of ways, in open to get that to fade without having to face the Police or Bounty Hunters

And NPCs sent to attack people with Notoriety will attack in every mode, so Solo players still get hunter by the NPC Police ships.

 

[Robert Maynard]

One way to strengthen the mode system could be focus each mode in itself. Solo shares Solo player interaction, both multiplayer modes do the same, addressing each individual stance. If Frontier doesn't regard the the mode switching as an issue and a weakness for player progression, all remains as is. If not, sooner or later Frontier will come up with a change, rethinking the single shared galaxy.

While the single shared galaxy has its merits, it undeniable provides some loop holes. I am not aware, for example does notoriety, fade equally no matter what mode you choose?

The ability for each player to be able to choose whether or not to possibly engage in direct PvP is at the heart of Frontier's game design.

The modes are simply matchmaking filters when instancing, i.e. Solo = instance with no-one; PG = instance with players playing in that PG on that platform; Open = instance with players in Open on that platform.

The game is functionally identical in all three game modes - the only difference is whether or not one will encounter other players.

The fact that Frontier have not changed their stance in over five years rather suggests that this particular design decision is not likely to be changed. Bear in mind that the likes of Ultima Online moved *away from* a single PvP enabled realm because the game was haemorrhaging players - and that was only about two and a half years after release.

If anything, in terms of reworking the game modes, I'd expect that an Open-PvE mode was more likely than a change in the way that players in modes other than Open affect the single shared galaxy state.

 

[Darkfyre99]

W... what? Then all the discussion here... 8-|

I know, right?

Which is why I consider this “concern” for both to be a casus belli in order to get more fish into the proverbial barrel.

Well that, and posts like this:

Nah will just keep farming players like you farm NPCs, except NPCs have no feelings.

 

[Roybe]

You know this works in both ways?
This maybe anecdotel, so it should just provide an example.
All friends of mine I started to play the game with, don't play anymore cus the mode system ruined their narrative.
There weren't PvP'lers and they didn't hate a fair amount of grind, but they hated the system for giving them the option of cheating themselves.

I do agree that new players should have some kind of puppy license.

...and we STILL have the same basic game! AND it still exists.

Players that leave, appear, to be such a small part of the game that their loss is marginal at best! This with Reddit screaming the game sucks, streamers screaming the game sucks, etc.

Your campaign for change is being ignored by the devs...despite our best efforts to keep the discussion on the front page for you!

 

[Dietger]

The ability for each player to be able to choose whether or not to possibly engage in direct PvP is at the heart of Frontier's game design.

The modes are simply matchmaking filters when instancing, i.e. Solo = instance with no-one; PG = instance with players playing in that PG on that platform; Open = instance with players in Open on that platform.

The game is functionally identical in all three game modes - the only difference is whether or not one will encounter other players.

The fact that Frontier have not changed their stance in over five years rather suggests that this particular design decision is not likely to be changed. Bear in mind that the likes of Ultima Online moved *away from* a single PvP enabled realm because the game was haemorrhaging players - and that was only about two and a half years after release.

If anything, in terms of reworking the game modes, I'd expect that an Open-PvE mode was more likely than a change in the way that players in modes other than Open affect the single shared galaxy state.

There always is a reason why or why not a particular game works in one way better then the other. I am not familiar with UO. EvE works fine, as well as many PvE centered mmos. Since there is always the coop or conflict side of things, turns out how that particular game is "geared", what and which lastly decide its player base.
I am aware you favor an Open PvE mode. Time will tell if Frontier redesigns the modes and if, in which way, or has no issues with their decision keeping its ways and modes as is.

 

[Theodrid]

I know the rules allow it, that's why we have hotel California for 5 years and the whole section on the forum called "Modes", all becsuse the rules allow it.

And here's the kicker Al, why do 'the rules allow it?'

The rules allow it because David Braben knows there are players like you out there, he even kind of mentions 'you' and the fact he doesn't find that type of gameplay appealing. And there you have it, the mode system was born out of a recognition that players like you exist and a recognition that a good number of players would not want to play this game with you.

So........thanks I guess!

 

[Jockey79]

Time will tell if Frontier redesigns the modes and if, in which way, or has no issues with their decision keeping its ways and modes as is.

Frontier have said since 2012 they support the mode system, they keep saying it.

Time has already told you your answer - you're just ignoring it, because you don't like the answer.

 

[Haggbad Celine]

All of your friends, like every other player past and present, bought a game that, from the outset, has been (and still is) advertised as containing three game modes and a single shared galaxy state.

This doesn't make the argument less significant that players feeling they are cheating themselves quit as well as players who get griefed.

Out of morbid curiosity, how exactly did the “Mode system [ruin] their narrative?” How were they “cheating themselves?” Because the game is identical across all three modes, the only change is how narrow or broad your social filters are. I can think of only one reason for the former, and one reason for the latter

Trading in solo/pg only, cus you can carry more cargo while having less risk of being caught with your pants down, so to say.
You wouldn't want to carry 800 tons of very expensive cargo without any defensive mechanisms in open.
Having an easy option to increase your reward while reducing your risk can feel like cheating yourself as you are missing potentially interesting engagements.

...and we STILL have the same basic game! AND it still exists.

Players that leave appear to be such a small part of the game that their loss is marginal at best! This with Reddit screaming the game sucks, streamers screaming the game sucks, etc.

Your campaign for change is being ignored by the devs...despite our best efforts to keep the discussion on the front page for you!

It's a long time discussion, since it doesn't seem to end and is not my personal campaign, I just add my two cents.
I wouldn't say this is being ignored and would state that current developments of C&P aim into the right direction.

To me, the problem is not the griefer (excluding Cmdrs blowing up newbs).
It's the option of being lazy that the free choice of game modes allow.

 

[Robert Maynard]

This doesn't make the argument less significant that players feeling they are cheating themselves quit as well as players who get griefed.

It does, to an extent, in my opinion - as the game design is quite clearly advertised and every player has the opportunity to familiarise themselves with the game features before making the purchase.

If players are seeking a game with only one mode then this is not that game and has, rather clearly, never been that game.

 

[Jockey79]

This doesn't make the argument less significant that players feeling they are cheating themselves quit as well as players who get griefed.

Actually it does.

If someone buys a Ford Ka and starts screaming they expected a Audi TT - you'd not give them the time of day.

The mode system was advertised long before the game was ever sold, this information was free available then and still is now.
So the argument that you want an open only PvP game because you prefer it is completely irrelevant to what you bought.

Next time you want an Audi, go buy an Audi.

Trading in solo/pg only, cus you can carry more cargo while having less risk ...

Stop right there.

"Risk" is not only subjective - as someone in Solo who is disabled will have more "risk" than you do in Open.
But "Risk" in Open is also completely avoidable - so there is no more "Risk" in Open than there is Solo.
I play Open, I've never been killed by human player. I'm not the only here who can say that.

However, in Open you can get help from friends in the shape of Wings and Multi-Crew.
So there is an argument there is more "Risk" in Solo as you're on your own there.

It's the option of being lazy that the free choice of game modes allow.

This is a casual game for people to enjoy in their down time - they can be as "lazy" as they like.