Running away from PvP, ship malfunctions as soon as shields go down

[WR3ND]

But you see when you interdict someone as a pirate and tell them to remain still and they do, only to see their ship magically disappear while you think they are complying after 15 seconds that is a bit frustrating right? I'm not shooting at them, they are remaining still seemingly following instructions, while in reality they waiting for the timer. How do I counter that? If someone tries to menu log when i'm shooting at them they won't make it, the damage done in 15 seconds will destroy them. But when they menu log in the early stages of a piracy attempt they will succeed in doing so since it's impossible to tell if that's what they are trying to do, perhaps if it is one day possible to see if a player is in the menu through some sort of symbol or something it will be easier. But as it stands you can pathetically enough log out while the pirate thinks you are following instructions.

In 15 seconds i'll barely manage to do a cargo scan, so someone who uses this extremely cheap ''tactic'' will escape with no cargo lost and no damage taken.

The difference is that people are permitted to log out, while you're not entitled to their cargo. One is game-play, the other isn't. Is it fair? No, but digital booty that wasn't yours to begin with isn't something to lose sleep over, IMO.

People shouldn't be playing in open if they don't want to play in open. I suppose that includes pirates too.

 

[Godsailsaqueen]

Or just press High Wake. It's just as overpowered and a garbage mechanic.

yeah, better leave no chance at all to the small ships, that's right. You rule the game.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Menu logging is the equivalent of throwing the ball into the pond when losing a game. Its not illegal, but you are a total loser if you do it.

 

[WR3ND]

yeah, better leave no chance at all to the small ships, that's right. You rule the game.

I kind of agree since there are a number of small ships without a significant speed nor maneuverability advantage as it is. It isn't an ideal mechanic though and larger ships can take advantage of it just as easily too.

 

[STARB0YY]

Please remember that this is completely hypothetical, I don't combat log, I don't exit to the main menu, I play solo most of the time and when I play in open and someone decides to destroy me for no reason I let it happen - and play solo for the next weeks again:

If you can't accept that people are going to stop playing with you in legitimate ways, don't play in open. Open is the everything goes mode, this includes asymmetric PvP, competitive PvP and people who don't want to play with you. The play your own way argument goes both ways, it doesn't mean everyone needs to play your way.

That said, I agree that logging during competitive PvP is cancer. I also agree that everyone else should either live (or die...) with the consequences or play in solo. That's what I do, if I don't feel like I want to be your content I'll just play in a different mode. However, that doesn't mean that nobody is allowed to use the menu, it's unfortunate but not wrong.

The part of my comment that you highlighted about combat logging as soon they get interdicted.. How is that legit ways? And in that part i'm talking about the illegal combat log, in other words the closing the game without using the timer. If you combat log by closing the game as soon as you get interdicted I still think you have no place in open, and I would argue that if you menu log the moment you get interdicted as well you don't belong in open. Because at that point you are clearly not interested in PvP which is a part of open, so at that point why bother going in? If it's for the players then join a PVE group instead of using an extremely cheap tactic.

And also, logging out of the game during combat is combat logging, even if it's ''legit''. It's so silly when people (and even frontier themselves) say that using the menu timer to log out isn't combat logging, when it's literally the definition of the term (logging out during combat). Again I think they should just admit what it is, they can still say menu logging is legit but it's still a combat log.

 

[Godsailsaqueen]

I kind of agree since there are a number of small ships without a significant speed nor maneuverability advantage as it is. It isn't an ideal mechanic though and larger ships can take advantage of it just as easily too.

Obviously, each mechanic can be discussed, each case individually.

But dropping statements as "high wake is garbage" without any further clue is just useless provocation, because it's the only legit line of defense. Better give something else in return, to keep some balance, or just straightforward admit that elite must just be a fun game for elites. More restrained than that, elite combat ships.

 

[STARB0YY]

The difference is that people are permitted to log out, while you're not entitled to their cargo. One is game-play, the other isn't. Is it fair? No, but digital booty that wasn't yours to begin with isn't something to lose sleep over, IMO.

People shouldn't be playing in open if they don't want to play in open. I suppose that includes pirates too.

I'm not losing sleep over it, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't want improvements. At the very least add a symbol to see if they are in the menu, that would really help against those cowards who do use the menu log.

 

[StiTch]

Menu logging is the equivalent of throwing the ball into the pond when losing a game. Its not illegal, but you are a total loser if you do it.

Best analogy yet

 

[WR3ND]

I'm not losing sleep over it, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't want improvements. At the very least add a symbol to see if they are in the menu, that would really help against those cowards who do use the menu log.

I personally would still count it as a win due to forfeit. Maybe there should be some kind of game mechanic around that as well. Just a random thought.

Hmm... a piracy rank? I'd prefer it over CQC at any rate. [hehe]

 

[vrseven]

Hmm... a piracy rank? I'd prefer it over CQC at any rate. [hehe]

For the love of Braben....yes please! lol

 

[STARB0YY]

I personally would still count it as a win due to forfeit. Maybe there should be some kind of game mechanic around that as well. Just a random thought.

Hmm... a piracy rank? I'd prefer it over CQC at any rate. [hehe]

The only way to ''win'' as a pirate is if you get cargo, though. And a menu log doesn't hand out many tons. I actually keep tabs on 3 things: how many successful piracy attempts I get, how many kills on people who don't comply and recently I have started counting combat logs. Sadly the combat log number is catching up on both success and kills.

I'm totally with you on the rank though, take out that stupid CQC rank that nobody cares about and add a piracy rank. [big grin]

 

[stormyuk]

The only way to ''win'' as a pirate is if you get cargo, though. And a menu log doesn't hand out many tons. I actually keep tabs on 3 things: how many successful piracy attempts I get, how many kills on people who don't comply and recently I have started counting combat logs. Sadly the combat log number is catching up on both success and kills.

Didn't I see a video with you trying to gank a shieldless Hauler asking him to drop 3 Water? How much profit is in that?

 

[STARB0YY]

Didn't I see a video with you trying to gank a shieldless Hauler asking him to drop 3 Water? How much profit is in that?

I see someone doesn't know the difference between a gank attempt and a piracy attempt, and I find it curious that you saw video of it. Because the only video that exists of that is said Hauler combat logging lol, and it has like 4 views.

And yes I told him to drop 3 of his 8 water, since I went through the trouble of interdicting him I might as well try to grab a small profit out of it, no matter how small. Had he dropped it I also would have shown the little guy that not all people are out to kill you some are real pirates who don't kill you as long as you listen. Profit varies with piracy, sometimes there are big fish in the pond and other times tiny fish carrying water.

 

[stormyuk]

I see someone doesn't know the difference between a gank attempt and a piracy attempt, and I find it curious that you saw video of it. Because the only video that exists of that is said Hauler combat logging lol, and it has like 4 views.

And yes I told him to drop 3 of his 8 water, since I went through the trouble of interdicting him I might as well try to grab a small profit out of it, no matter how small. Had he dropped it I also would have shown the little guy that not all people are out to kill you some are real pirates who don't kill you as long as you listen. Profit varies with piracy, sometimes there are big fish in the pond and other times tiny fish carrying water.

I am one of the 4 views, I checked it out when I saw your comment on the ED live stream video last night. (So no, that Hauler isn't me if that is what you are implying?).

 

[STARB0YY]

I am one of the 4 views, I checked it out when I saw your comment on the ED live stream video last night. (So no, that Hauler isn't me if that is what you are implying?).

Ah that explains it, just felt a bit weird that someone found a video with so little views that I haven't even posted anywhere yet. As you can see I mainly use that channel for busting combat loggers, but I've uploaded a few fun non combat log videos as well. Check them out if you want. [big grin]

 

[Imo]

This "he pulled the plug" mostly exists in the minds of certain players. In reality players often just return to the main menu which appears the same than - in the eyes of the aggressor - pulling the plug but is legal as Frontier already stated before. Others just have a crash to desktop with a opening crash reporter during pvp fight. That ones will of course be called the bad plug pullers too even if they never weren't.

 

[STARB0YY]

This "he pulled the plug" mostly exists in the minds of certain players. In reality players often just return to the main menu which appears the same than - in the eyes of the aggressor - pulling the plug but is legal as Frontier already stated before. Others just have a crash to desktop with a opening crash reporter during pvp fight. That ones will of course be called the bad plug pullers too even if they never weren't.

Don't think you know what you're talking about, it's actually very easy to see whether someone exits the game via menu or ''pulls the plug'' which more means closing the game using task kill. When someone logs out via menu their ship will still take damage and be vulnerable for the 15 seconds it takes for the timer to disappear, while if they combat log the exploit way their ship will still remain in the instance for a while after they have closed the game but it will no longer take any damage.

Game crashes can of course happen during fights and those usually get cleared up between the parties involved, since they will often happen between two PvP players.

 

[Imo]

Don't think you know what you're talking about, it's actually so that the aggressor will report and blame the other one for combat logging no matter if that one really did. And I am quite sure nobody is interested to know if he did. He looked like that, so he must be it. At least that's my impression of what the pvp lovers think about.

 

[STARB0YY]

Don't think you know what you're talking about, it's actually so that the aggressor will report and blame the other one for combat logging no matter if that one really did. And I am quite sure nobody is interested to know if he did. He looked like that, so he must be it. At least that's my impression of what the pvp lovers think about.

Christ have you ever seen someone combat log? Even people who exclusively play PVE tend to know that it's easy to see the difference between someone menu logging and someone combat logging. Don't talk about actuality when you're clueless dude.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

But you see when you interdict someone as a pirate and tell them to remain still and they do, only to see their ship magically disappear while you think they are complying after 15 seconds that is a bit frustrating right? I'm not shooting at them, they are remaining still seemingly following instructions, while in reality they waiting for the timer. How do I counter that? If someone tries to menu log when i'm shooting at them they won't make it, the damage done in 15 seconds will destroy them. But when they menu log in the early stages of a piracy attempt they will succeed in doing so since it's impossible to tell if that's what they are trying to do, perhaps if it is one day possible to see if a player is in the menu through some sort of symbol or something it will be easier. But as it stands you can pathetically enough log out while the pirate thinks you are following instructions.

In 15 seconds i'll barely manage to do a cargo scan, so someone who uses this extremely cheap ''tactic'' will escape with no cargo lost and no damage taken.

I can see that it's frustrating to have someone disappear while you ask them to sit still, but that doesn't count as combat logging under either definition of the term.

I would personally fire off hatchbreakers asap, no need to scan first. If you manage to steal some useful cargo before he logs or high wakes then you've succeeded as a pirate and have no reason to be frustrated. Players aren't obliged to fulfill your roleplaying as a gentleman pirate, just fire 'em hatchbreakers.

About countering: it doesn't matter how many layers of counter, and counter-counter a game affords to the players, the ultimate uncounterable is when a player refuses to play with you, by either not playing the game, playing in a different mode, or logging out on you. If you've gotten someone to the point where they'd rather log out of the game than play with you, maybe consider that it's a problem you have to deal with rather than FD or the players you interact with.