Same old song about cheaters

[Comrade Error]

I hate to disappoint you, but ED is not a piece of electronic equipment. However, they TV manufacturer is saying "we allow it". It would be very difficult for them to prevent you from doing so.

No, ED is a piece of software.

When a game tells you you can play multiplayer sure I guess you can take it as "We allow it." but then I'm also going to expect multiplayer to work.

 

[Comrade Error]

But if you have a girlfriend/fiancee/boyfriend/wife/husband living with you, what the TV manufacturer tells you is not the last word.
Last word is what you can agree with your fellow players. NPCs neither complain on the forums about being "griefed for no apparent reason", nor do they complain when you combatlog.

Well, then there's still piracy and people logging because they're "scared" to lose some tons in cargo and whatnot. ^^

Quite far fetched that one is. If you play the game you agree to follow the rules.

Well yea but that's not my point. Most here I assume agree on those people are         , less people do when they log against a ganker and I assume that's mainly because of the lack of consequence for the ganker (at least that's what I am told).

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So - just for giggles - if you know all the serious combat-loggers off by heart, why not pre-emptively combat log on them?

That way you'll get their ire up by not giving them the satisfaction of a precisely timed, pixel-perfect combat disconnection

Oh - and the support tickets would be most delicious...

"CMDR XXyyAAbb combat logged on me before I could combat log on him! Snot fair! I demand recompense!"

Because I don't want to cheat?

 

[Comrade Error]

The "rules" of the game are up for very loose interpretation, especially when the EULA is so out of date. As with combat logging I am sure they did not foresee online bullying of specific groups of people as a potential issue. Until FDEV can fix the issue, we are at in impasse. We agree to disagree so to speak.

The game cant stop you from combat logging because they dont have dedicated servers for instancing. The game also cannot stop people from being antagonistic and disruptive to other players.


Until they are both fixed, they are both a non issue.

Recent Reddit AMA David called it an issue and against the rules I believe.

On the contrary, they are both important issues.

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I made mention of that because one of the said player killers in another post was using the term interchangeably. In some cases the same post.

The Lunlzbunnies didnt cause the issue but they also are not being forced into the role. Nobody is forcing them act in that manner.

For the most part a community polices its own local environment. This game in scope is huge but as an environment its tiny. Its based off of actual player base.
Your kid for example cant stay out till 4am and not get punished. The neighbors dog craps on the lawn, the trash man makes a mess at the corner those type of things are generally handled civilly and locally by the people involved.
That is because generally people are good and they try to live up to the communities norms. However the violent and antisocial part of any community are policed by an authority of some kind. They are sent to an area where they can only hurt themselves and each other. We lack that in this game. We cant banish the lulzbunnies to anywhere. They show up anywhere at any time for any reason.

There is no reason to prepare or even fight back since Engineers. Its disgusting really.

What else do you want the lulzbunnies to do? Do PvP piracy? PvP bounty hunting? They don't exactly have many options when it comes to PvP.

 

[bubbabenali]

Btw. thanks for this salt filled masterpiece, it will entertain me well on my way to Hutton tomorrow.

 

[Comrade Error]

Btw. thanks for this salt filled masterpiece, it will entertain me well on my way to Hutton tomorrow.

You want some popcorn with the salt?

 

[Duedy]

I couldn't give a fuel rats fudge if people combat log or not. If I have to go/ answer the phone etc and someone interdicts me (NPC or player) I will just logout. And I won't be waiting no 15 second timer.

And with the sudden nerf of places like Sothis and general mission rewards, then it will happen more oftern. It is " Screw everyone I am not wasting my weeks of play just for some duck".

Griefers are the bane of this game, they forced people to play solo/ private groups (Mobius is proof of this) because they want to enjoy their gaming time not wasted hrs in 10 seconds of non-consensual PvP by some wing of ducks.

 

[Comrade Error]

I couldn't give a fuel rats fudge if people combat log or not. If I have to go/ answer the phone etc and someone interdicts me (NPC or player) I will just logout. And I won't be waiting no 15 second timer.

And with the sudden nerf of places like Sothis and general mission rewards, then it will happen more oftern. It is " Screw everyone I am not wasting my weeks of play just for some duck".

Griefers are the bane of this game, they forced people to play solo/ private groups (Mobius is proof of this) because they want to enjoy their gaming time not wasted hrs in 10 seconds of non-consensual PvP by some wing of ducks.

Combat loggers are the bane of this game, they forced people to play gankers and griefers (Open is proof of this) because they want to enjoy their gaming time not waste time on people who play in open who know there can be PvP and still refuse to stop play open when they know they can be relieved/killed for/of their cargo/bounty.

 

[Riverside]

Combat loggers are the bane of this game, they forced people to play gankers and griefers (Open is proof of this) because they want to enjoy their gaming time not waste time on people who play in open who know there can be PvP and still refuse to stop play open when they know they can be relieved/killed for/of their cargo/bounty.

They are the bane of your game maybe, makes no difference to me, or many others it seems.

No one is forced to do anything. They do it by choice.

 

[veelckoo]

Combat loggers are the bane of this game, they forced people to play gankers and griefers (Open is proof of this) because they want to enjoy their gaming time not waste time on people who play in open who know there can be PvP and still refuse to stop play open when they know they can be relieved/killed for/of their cargo/bounty.

That's why you should play solo. No NPC will combat log EVER!

 

[Comrade Error]

That's why you should play solo. No NPC will combat log EVER!

But then I won't be able to do PvP piracy. An advertised part of the game.

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They are the bane of your game maybe, makes no difference to me, or many others it seems.

No one is forced to do anything. They do it by choice.

If you look closely I was parodying the guy I was replying to.

 

[Riverside]

I understand your position as well as you understand mine
Getting boring now though. Try a different tactic maybe? You can always come back to this later.

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Question for you. Do you want to stop combat logging, or just punish it more severely?

 

[Commander Biscuit]

It's frikken monopoly money.
I wasn't happy to lose my corvette to in open (to an npc) and I made my first 600 million at an average rate of 1 mio per hour, so that was quite some "lost progress" (to an open end goal, so it doesn't matter in the end, where we will all uninstall the game).
But if the prospect of losing monopoly money in a game of monopoly ever discourages me, i'll just stop playing games and watch tv, since I will have lost all perspective of what playing games is about.

It's monopoly money that is slowly earned through hundreds of hours of playtime. People aren't willing to lose that whether you call it monopoly money or not, when you run out of the stuff, you can't fly your ship anymore.

 

[Comrade Error]

I understand your position as well as you understand mine
Getting boring now though. Try a different tactic maybe? You can always come back to this later.

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Question for you. Do you want to stop combat logging, or just punish it more severely?

Didn't mean offence just stating (although looking back at it a bit demeaning) that I was parodying the guy I replied to to prove a point.

Well if you mean by "more severly" at all, then yes I would like to punish combat logging, which I'm sure would put a dent in it but no solution is a 100% fool proof, if people want to log even under severe punishment that's up to them but at least they face consequences which they try to avoid so dearly.

Or in other words.. Yes.

 

[Riverside]

Didn't mean offence just stating (although looking back at it a bit demeaning) that I was parodying the guy I replied to to prove a point.

Well if you mean by "more severly" at all, then yes I would like to punish combat logging, which I'm sure would put a dent in it but no solution is a 100% fool proof, if people want to log even under severe punishment that's up to them but at least they face consequences which they try to avoid so dearly.

Or in other words.. Yes.

Okay so do you accept that it will always be possible for players to combat log, even if they do so in the sure knowledge that their ship is lost.
Even though it denys you your satisfaction of a kill (and potentially any bounty). I'm trying to paint an extreme picture here. Thus is not a loaded question btw, just interested

 

[Gunnet]

Didn't mean offence just stating (although looking back at it a bit demeaning) that I was parodying the guy I replied to to prove a point.

Well if you mean by "more severly" at all, then yes I would like to punish combat logging, which I'm sure would put a dent in it but no solution is a 100% fool proof, if people want to log even under severe punishment that's up to them but at least they face consequences which they try to avoid so dearly.

Or in other words.. Yes.

It's impossible to punish combat logging from a technical standpoint without completely overhauling how the multiplayer functions. Players can't be threatened into participating in anything.

 

[Riverside]

Of course you can. Guaranteed ship loss on forced disconnect. I appreciate it is hard to police.

 

[JerryLove]

It's frikken monopoly money.

That's a great point. It would be silly to ban someone over monopoly money.

Just as it was silly to nerf Sothis because someone might get more monopoly money.

I wasn't happy to lose my corvette to in open (to an npc) and I made my first 600 million at an average rate of 1 mio per hour, so that was quite some "lost progress" (to an open end goal, so it doesn't matter in the end, where we will all uninstall the game).

So, what, 20 hours of your life went with that loss of monopoly money?

How many hours have you played this game?

Open is PvP, not PvE. When there is another human involved, and rules you are expected to follow.

Open isn't PvP.

On some rare occasions: open has PvP elements.

And if, with all the combat logging thread, you expect that no one will do it: the problem is that you have unrealistic expectations.

Speak for yourself. This is why there are rules, and if caught you will be punished. It's not for you to decide who's day it ruins.

1) We are discussing what the rules *should* be, not what they are.

2) It's not presently "against the rules"... so *you* are the person deciding without sufficient authority to do so.

Your crappy internet is not my problem.

Exactly my point. My disconnects don't hurt you at all. So why are you trying to make trouble where none exists?

Indeed: It could well be *your* crappy connection that causes the disconnect. No way to tell.

Until someone annoyed enough to screen record all of their play catches you doing this, opens a support ticket with video evidence, and you get the ban you deserve.

It would be neat for someone to be screen capturing me in Solo mode (which is where I would actually be combat logging against NPCs)

But it's not actually against any rule.

And it's also no provable.

So yea, good luck with that.

In a MOBA? Your team is down a person, which statistically torpedoes your winrate. The other team gets an easy win they didn't have to work for, which feels remarkably hollow.

Which is why punishments for logging out make sense in a MOBA.

Elite Dangerous is not a MOBA.

You'll notice I was speaking specifically of league of legends. Players have been banned for repeated disconnects. Given that the developers here acknowledge it as an exploit, similar measures should be expected.

And league of legends is a MOBA... which is one of the few genre where logging penalties make any sense.

Elite Dangerous is not a MOBA. No one is harmed by disconnects.

Just take a deep breath and try focusing more on how you play than how others do.

 

[Gunnet]

Of course you can. Guaranteed ship loss on forced disconnect. I appreciate it is hard to police.

There is no way Frontier's server can tell which player, if either, cut the peer-to-peer connection. It's an inherent flaw of this kind of multiplayer netcode. Any system which tries to "guess" who cut the connection would be easily abusable.

 

[Riverside]

There is no way Frontier's server can tell which player, if either, cut the peer-to-peer connection. It's an inherent flaw of this kind of multiplayer netcode. Any system which tries to "guess" who cut the connection would be easily abusable.

Yes, I realise that & have said a great deal on that very topic in this very thread. I thought it was worth reading when I wrote it at least I appreciate that it's a big thread.

The point is that the player who is considering combat logging as an option seemingly does so as a last resort alternative to losing their ship. So if a rule could be made that did reliably detect deliberate CLing, the sensible punishment would be guaranteed hull loss (rather than, or as well as shadowbanning, restriction from Open etc).

 

[Gunnet]

Yes, I realise that & have said a great deal on that very topic in this very thread. I thought it was worth reading when I wrote it at least I appreciate that it's a big thread.

The point is that the player who is considering combat logging as an option seemingly does so as a last resort alternative to losing their ship. So if a rule could be made that did reliably detect deliberate CLing, the sensible punishment would be guaranteed hull loss (rather than, or as well as shadowbanning, retriction from Open etc).

My apologies. I've been keeping up with this thread, but admittedly skimming a lot of posts.

That would definitely be a sensible punishment, were it possible to implement.