Scrap or redesign shield cell modules, they are too overpowered and trivialize PvP.

Valence · Jan 17, 2015

Shield cells are fine. If you don't like them, don't use them. If you want danger, fly a sidewinder. If you're l33t, don't fly with shields. Hull tank ftw.

fergal · Jan 17, 2015

Deggial said:
I hope, shield cells get not nerved too much, before the general game difficulty got ramped up.

I am still hoping for multiple-ship-interdictions and more frequent coordinated attacks at nav points and extraction sites. I had them sometimes (very rarely) at Anarchy extraction sites. Those figths were SO MUCH FUN and using my shield cells was integral part of it!

As soon as wings are implemented in the game, I forsee those multiple ship figths in PvP, too. It would definitely suck, if at this point shield cells would be nerved into uselessness, only because they are CURRENTLY overpowered...

I don't think wings will make multiple ships per side pvp easier. Chance of getting two wings together would have to be much less than the 1v1 pvp is happening right now.

Should increase 2v1 or 5v1 fights though

Xanador · Jan 17, 2015

They are currently overpowered, but limiting it to one shield cell bank per ship will create big differences BETWEEN ships. Currently big ships are far behind punch per credit wise and also punch per maintanance cost wise, witch is ok now. But if you limit the shield cell bank per ship, they lose much more than small ships with only one or two "spare" internal slots. My suggestion: Reduce the charges per shield bank.

Adept · Jan 17, 2015

vjek said:
The "negative effect" is you have to return to a station to recharge them, and there's a cost associated with that. They're a money sink and a time sink, already, today, right now.

If you make them all negatives and there's no positive, and/or the benefit is so small it's a knife-edge use case, no-one will use them and you'll have another pointless broken mechanic.

Here's a tip: Don't do that. There's nothing "wrong" with them right now. At worst, they prolong PvP battles. Think long and hard before you throw the baby out with the bath water.

Lol! Classic.

Nothing wrong? Just because you are used to them and want them to stay as they are foesn't mean there is nothing wrong. Like I said, there are always lovers of cheese.

Slamhamster · Jan 17, 2015

Make them use a weapon mount rather than an internal slot. Then you get to choose between damage mitigation and firepower, and limit the charges to match size of the mount - but make them heavy to impact jump range.

Traders choose between weight and range, PvP gets to choose between longevity and lethality.

Mephane · Jan 17, 2015

I must admit, the more I think about, the more I like the idea of changing SCBs so that they merely refill the SYS bar.

Dissentient · Jan 17, 2015

Mephane said:
I must admit, the more I think about, the more I like the idea of changing SCBs so that they merely refill the SYS bar.

They would be useless then. I personally never see my SYS bar below maximum.

vonvonbraun · Jan 17, 2015

Johnny Spaceboots said:
It seems like you don't have any reason to be participating in the conversation if you're just going to berate people instead of civilly stating your position.

I have the only right

and my reason is to vocalize my dissent

and you are going to take it, because this is the internet

no changes to shield cells

NeilF · Jan 17, 2015

vjek said:
The "negative effect" is you have to return to a station to recharge them, and there's a cost associated with that. They're a money sink and a time sink, already, today, right now.

If you make them all negatives and there's no positive, and/or the benefit is so small it's a knife-edge use case, no-one will use them and you'll have another pointless broken mechanic.

Here's a tip: Don't do that. There's nothing "wrong" with them right now. At worst, they prolong PvP battles. Think long and hard before you throw the baby out with the bath water.

Not sure your argument is valid.

Let's say as they stood, Shield Cells cost the same amount as they do now etc, but when you activated them they recharged your shields immediately, and infact even tripled their strength. Now let's change them, so they take a minute to instead activate after you press "the button" and they only add in effect half a "ring" to your ship. Do you agree the first is over powered, and the latter is practically useless? Now, there's an awful lot of area (grey) in the middle isn't there!

All that's be suggested is currently we're a little too near the former end of the scale than many like. Ships can "tank" away at each other and worse still the fact you can use two (or even more) just makes it an arms race in that department too.

So let's not be needlessly black and white about it, and accept there's a lot of grey in the middle of getting these sorts of things "balanced".

MaD^Mak · Jan 17, 2015

I think the tweaks FD are introducing are the best way forward. It's always better to make small iterations over a mechanic until you find the optimal balance. The fact the shield cells will increase the power draw should lead to some interesting compromises. For example, I only carry one SCB in my combat-oriented Eagle because I got 2 beam lasers. When the tweaks roll out, I'll probably have to either ditch the SCB to keep the beams or downgrade to pulse lasers or multi-cannons to keep the SCB. The same will apply to all other ships I assume.

Asrar · Jan 17, 2015

just get more alpha to avoid shield cell boosters..

dont go for beamlasers, go for railguns.. dont go for multicanons, go for missiles.. higher your alpha and let the shieldbooster know you not interessted in a long battle, make it short and alpha him away, thats what i do ;-)

vonvonbraun · Jan 17, 2015

Asrar said:
just get more alpha to avoid shield cell boosters..

dont go for beamlasers, go for railguns.. dont go for multicanons, go for missiles.. higher your alpha and let the shieldbooster know you not interessted in a long battle, make it short and alpha him away, thats what i do ;-)

this exactly

if people are not able to play well they should just learn to do it right instead to come here and cry about their incapabilities

vonvonbraun · Jan 17, 2015

Sandro Sammarco said:
Hello Commander Johnny Spaceboots!

Just watched the video you linked. Have to say and I have to say, it didn't seem to me to a complete joke (I found it rather enjoyable, and in fairness, so it seems did the players involved).

The python is by most reckonings, a beast of a ship (a little too beastly, we will be dropping it's manoeuvrability a tad). Interestingly, if the Cobra had had weapons other than missile racks on the wing mounts, the python's shields would have probably broken a few times (missiles are utterly terrible versus shields, though they are hungry for hull).

Do I think the video highlights an issue: yes. Do I think the tweaks rolling out will address it: I'm not sure. Am I prepared to make further changes if we feel the next changes don't work: yes. Do we have quite a few options: yes.

It may well be that we end up with one of the more severe solutions, but that will only happen once I'm sure we can't find more interesting compromises.

Caro Sandro

Instead of ruining the joy of flying and the power of shooting with the Python

Why not rebalance a bit the shields to a lower level.

No point in making it a slow tank gunboat. That is the anaconda.

This is a medium ship with oversized thrusters. Please stick to your brilliant design idea instaed of listening to these people always crying for a nerf.

Satanski · Jan 17, 2015

Lanatir said:
Ah...the pvp players....bane of every multiplayer game because everything needs 'balancing'. Game is fine, Shield cells are fine. If you think they are unbalanced and cant deal with it, dont pvp or go play solo.

The thing is, they make pve boring too. Sure, i can refuse to use them but i would like a level playground and having half the players have an "i win" button doesnt sound like one.

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Asrar said:
just get more alpha to avoid shield cell boosters..

dont go for beamlasers, go for railguns.. dont go for multicanons, go for missiles.. higher your alpha and let the shieldbooster know you not interessted in a long battle, make it short and alpha him away, thats what i do ;-)

Souns good. Now, could you provide a proof of concept?

Ben Ryder · Jan 17, 2015

I think shield cells are fine as is. When we have huge multi-player fights i want them to be epic for everyone involved rather than a 5 minutes series of one shot kills. So I'm fine with them just the way they are.

bassman · Jan 17, 2015

Adept said:
Hull strength actually scaling with hull mass, and removing reactor kills. Hitting the reactor should reduce available power, not blow the ship up at 80% hull.

I favor a general increase in hull strengths, with a greater range of hull upgrades available with some being extremely tough but extremely heavy. This would give a greater range of ship role specialisation. Right now hull strength has been effectively removed as a tactical parameter.

Hopefully Sandro will let us experiment with some of the good suggestions in the thread in the upcomming beta.

bassman · Jan 17, 2015

Slamhamster said:
Make them use a weapon mount rather than an internal slot. Then you get to choose between damage mitigation and firepower, and limit the charges to match size of the mount - but make them heavy to impact jump range.

Traders choose between weight and range, PvP gets to choose between longevity and lethality.

While I like the fact that this imposes a good tradeoff I feel that it disadvantages smaller ships disproportionately - a ship with 3 hard points has to sacrifice a third of its offensive capability wheres a ship with 6 is only sacrificing a sixth.

nathan bridger · Jan 17, 2015

I like them how they are and most of us do no PVP so @ all PVP Players if you dont like it go away!

Thanks to some Player who realize they cant win and start to ram you i almost play solo now anyway

No Changes please!

bassman · Jan 17, 2015

Adept said:
There are always lovers of cheese in any game, specially if it involves PvP. Were you around when the original railguns were the gankers choice no. 1?

Indeed, I recall you were (at least IMO) highly influential in leading the calls for a change there, so now that you are on the case of cells I'm confident something will be done about it

NeilF · Jan 17, 2015

nathan bridger said:
I like them how they are and most of us do no PVP so @ all PVP Players if you dont like it go away!

Thanks to some Player who realize they cant win and start to ram you i almost play solo now anyway

No Changes please!

So let's consider your post? You like the fact:-
1) Shields Cells are very powerful - We can see Vipers simply sitting there out-tanking Anacondas without losing their shields over minute long periods.
2) You like the fact you can in fact have multiple of these units - Some players are taking two/three to battle because that means they can out-tank a player with just one.
3) You like the fact NPCs can't/don't even use them?

And your sum total of logic put into your consideration is, "if you dont like it go away!"

Am I alone in thinking... Hmmm...?