Scrap or redesign shield cell modules, they are too overpowered and trivialize PvP.

[Johnny Spaceboots]

A few quick questions, which go to the core of why I no longer use Shield Cells (and an apology in advance, for using some of those hackneyed old PvE/PvP terms in here):


When using shield cells,

1. Do you feel invincible when engaging NPCs, or are you sometimes challenged? And do you enjoy the feeling?
2. Do you feel invincible when engaging PvE-equipped CMDRs, or are you sometimes challenged? And do you enjoy the feeling?
3. Do you feel invincible when engaging PvP-equipped CMDRs, or are you sometimes challenged? And do you enjoy the feeling?


Here's me:

When using Shield Cells, answers were:

1. Invincible, didn't enjoy it.
2. Invincible, didn't enjoy it.
3. Challenged, enjoyed it.


After deciding to avoid equipping Shield Cells on my ships, answers were:

1. Sometimes challenged, enjoyed it.
2. Usually challenged, enjoyed it.
3. Challenged (usually wiped, lol), enjoyed it.

1). Invincible. Didn't enjoy it.
2). Invincible. Didn't enjoy it.
3). I felt like we were both invincible. Instead of being enjoyable, it just became a grind and an exercise in tedium, where I knew that even if I gained the upper hand after 20 minutes of fighting, he would just run away unharmed. That's only if PVP equipped CMDRs abuse shield potions, otherwise it's enjoyable.

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Every module in the game is content by definition. I don't think we are in trouble because of that?

Content can often be bad. A module that gave CMDRs godmode and one hit weapons would also technically be content. Would you be adverse to such a module being removed?

 

[Adept]

A single, obvious "best ship" or "must use module" is not adding content, it is severely reducing the possibility space of viable choices.

 

[darshu]

1). Content can often be bad. A module that gave CMDRs godmode and one hit weapons would also technically be content. Would you be adverse to such a module being removed?

I never meant to give the impression that content should never be removed but that question is so extreme i think you are being sarcastic or are trying to imply shield cells give a player "godmode" which they don't. It does force you to equip to counter them to be efficient and when wings come out it will be almost a non issue with coordinated focus fire.

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A single, obvious "best ship" or "must use module" is not adding content, it is severely reducing the possibility space of viable choices.

In a game with 1 combat module there is not any competition or choice in the matter.

 

[Johnny Spaceboots]

I never meant to give the impression that content should never be removed but that question is so extreme i think you are being sarcastic or are trying to imply shield cells give a player "godmode" which they don't. It does force you to equip to counter them to be efficient and when wings come out it will be almost a non issue with coordinated focus fire.

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In a game with 1 combat module there is not any competition or choice in the matter.

As you can see from the python video, coordinated focus fire did little to threaten the python.

 

[darshu]

As you can see from the python video, coordinated focus fire did little to threaten the python.

I wouldn't call that coordinated or focus fire in any sense of the words.

 

[aowqyaaw]

darshu, what would you be losing if shield cells were removed? Genuine question.

 

[Johnny Spaceboots]

I wouldn't call that coordinated or focus fire in any sense of the words.

And what would you consider "coordinated" or "focus fire"? 3 players were working together to take down a heavily armed python is what I saw and did a reasonable job of it. Maybe if they were all standing still, not maneuvering at all, with 4 pips in weapons at all times just shooting at a still python who allows them to do that?

 

[darshu]

darshu, what would you be losing if shield cells were removed? Genuine question.

Content, content that can be countered and is not game breaking. If the majority of people want shield cells removed I'm sure they will be but why remove content today that will be a non issue tomorrow ? With the addition of wings a month or so away why attempt to balance player combat to a 1v1 standard ? Especially when you can already equip against it. We will be seeing groups of players blowing up Pythons in a matter of seconds.

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And what would you consider "coordinated" or "focus fire"? 3 players were working together to take down a heavily armed python is what I saw and did a reasonable job of it. Maybe if they were all standing still, not maneuvering at all, with 4 pips in weapons at all times just shooting at a still python who allows them to do that?

I'm not going to argue tactics with you but 3 players taking pot shots flying unnecessarily far away with less then ideal weapons does not fall under MY qualification of coordinated or focused.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

And what would you consider "coordinated" or "focus fire"? 3 players were working together to take down a heavily armed python is what I saw and did a reasonable job of it. Maybe if they were all standing still, not maneuvering at all, with 4 pips in weapons at all times just shooting at a still python who allows them to do that?

Well, it's not like we were all on voice comms together. We'd come across each other in SC about an hour into the Python's six-hour drunken rampage (lol), and had managed to scrape up just enough coordination to drop into the same FSD Wake.

There were some honest attempts to tag-team... as in, once the Python focuses on you, RUN AWAY, and give a different ship a chance to shoot it. Then, as soon as you see its nose turn to someone else, swing back in for your shot.

Essentially, an attempt to make the target use up all its shield cells over an extended period of time.

Of course, without a larger ship with us to invoke masslock, the Python could decide to be gone, and 12 seconds later... be gone.


"Properly coordinated" would have been for the two players NOT being focused on to attack effectively together. At the very least. We certainly weren't doing that.

 

[fergal]

A few quick questions, which go to the core of why I no longer use Shield Cells (and an apology in advance, for using some of those hackneyed old PvE/PvP terms in here):


When using shield cells,

1. Do you feel invincible when engaging NPCs, or are you sometimes challenged? And do you enjoy the feeling?
2. Do you feel invincible when engaging PvE-equipped CMDRs, or are you sometimes challenged? And do you enjoy the feeling?
3. Do you feel invincible when engaging PvP-equipped CMDRs, or are you sometimes challenged? And do you enjoy the feeling?

When using Shield Cells, my answers were:

1. Invincible, didn't enjoy it.
2. Its hard to know who has shield cells, you can't see that in their "inventory". Maybe everyone shields who I have melted is because they didn't have shield cells?
3. Other commanders usually die quickly, somewhat enjoyable. Other times I can't quite get through their shields (probably because they are running 4 pips to shields) and the shield dance begins. Feels like a waste of time.

After deciding to avoid equipping Shield Cells on my ships, answers are:

1. Sometimes challenged, enjoyed it.
2. Same as above, don't know whos "PvE" equipped. I don't think there are many commanders without shield cells.
3. Challenged (have been running some more), enjoyed it, but do feel at a massive disadvantage, like deciding to turn off my monitor because I don't feel challenged enough.

 

[fergal]

In the post above I said commanders usually die quickly, that isn't true. They are usually defeated quickly.

Shields down in seconds, they run. Sometime I can kill them before they jump out sometimes not.

 

[Count Iblis]

Funny. Despite my two shield cells and double chaff, I just got killed. Because the other player knew what he was doing. He had fixed heavy weapons and had my shields down so fast and my thrusters destroyed so quick shield cells were useless.

That's how you deal with shield cells. By being good, not by complaining.

Shield cells don't 'buff' shields, they partially recharge them provided they are not down.

THIS!

Well said!

 

[CaptainKremmen]

As an explorer who just recently started to mix in some casual bounty hunting I'm not so much concerned about the use of shield cells by myself.
My main concern is, if I look at CaptainKremmen's evaluation (and he's not the only one) of the current situation, that NPC ships will be heavily buffed in the future to make them more enjoyable for those avid combat pilots using shield cells (still assuming shield cells not going to be changed in the near future). If that actually would happen, my current fun with 1. would be massively rattened. I would be thrown back to specializing: either pure exploring or pure combat. But I really enjoy and don't want to give up the current diversity which seems to be tailor-made for my Cobra.

Or in other words: as long as you could live with the way too easy NPCs (for YOU, as they are now), I wouldn't mind the existence of shield cells. Current state of NPCs is pure fun for a weak explorer ship without shield cells.

Interesting point.

I do, however, question the spawn logic behind finding murderous psychopathic NPCs lurking far beyond civilisation. And the equipment choices they spawn with.

If a psychopathic player was to lurk 250 LY from the nearest station, they would need a fuel scoop to get that far. If they were going to be there for more than a long weekend of pointless murdering of passing explorers, they would at least consider fitting an Automatic Field Repair unit. They would likely favour beam weapons, as it's a long walk back to the shops for another four cartons of Dumbfire Missiles, multicannons, railgun slugs or Heat Seekers.


If you're concerned about meeting an NPC 300 LY from home that flies like a wizard, has nothing but missiles and shield cells... I'm right with you. But I'm wondering why/how they're there in the first place!

 

[deMangler]

As an explorer who just recently started to mix in some casual bounty hunting I'm not so much concerned about the use of shield cells by myself.
My main concern is, if I look at CaptainKremmen's evaluation (and he's not the only one) of the current situation, that NPC ships will be heavily buffed in the future to make them more enjoyable for those avid combat pilots using shield cells (still assuming shield cells not going to be changed in the near future). If that actually would happen, my current fun with 1. would be massively rattened. I would be thrown back to specializing: either pure exploring or pure combat. But I really enjoy and don't want to give up the current diversity which seems to be tailor-made for my Cobra.

Or in other words: as long as you could live with the way too easy NPCs (for YOU, as they are now), I wouldn't mind the existence of shield cells. Current state of NPCs is pure fun for a weak explorer ship without shield cells.

The main problem with shield cells is they are a blunt instrument that take the subtlety out of a fight and make it less fun.
FD do need to put in NPC's that are a challenge, but they need to do it right. Make some systems dangerous for a reason, or some situations, but make information about these dangers available so pilots can avoid or go there how they want. At the moment nowhere is dangerous.
As for NPC's spawning far from stations, I thought they had fixed that. I was hoping so I could start exploring without wondering where these ships were magically appearing from....

 

[CaptainKremmen]

<snip>I was hoping so I could start exploring without wondering where these ships were magically appearing from....

"Arr! I be a crazed NPC pirate! I've been waiting in these pristine rings for six years! Here, in the middle ring...

...of the third ringed planet from the sun!

...out of five possible ringed planets!

...in this cluster of 21 stars!

...385 Light Years from the nearest port!

...with me full rack'o homing missiles, and no fuel scoop!

...because I'm MAD, me hearties! Arr!

...Gibber! What's that, Wilson? I'm a yak? You're a yak? No! The invisible yak, yes... that tells me to KILL THAT COBRA! Yarr! Okay..."


"...YOU CHOOSE DEATH!"



Of course, we only get to read the last sentence. And we don't get to smell the fecal matter caking his ship. We just put him out of his misery and move on, wondering... what the...

 

[chili]

Lets call it a shield recharge module.

Limited to one per shield generator, which means one per ship.
Tremendously increase downed shield recycling from what can be 30 seconds-2minute now, to 3-7 seconds depending upon shield generator grade/class and ship.
Any and all damage to shields will wear down the module. Downed shields will wear it down even more.
The more damaged the module, the worse the sped-up shield down recycle time is

yea

Module breaks on next downed shield state, which then recycles as baseline.

nay


eightmorechars

 

[deMangler]

"Arr! I be a crazed NPC pirate! I've been waiting in these pristine rings for six years! Here, in the middle ring...

Spoiler

...of the third ringed planet from the sun!

...out of five possible ringed planets!

...in this cluster of 21 stars!

...385 Light Years from the nearest port!

...with me full rack'o homing missiles, and no fuel scoop!

...because I'm MAD, me hearties! Arr!

...Gibber! What's that, Wilson? I'm a yak? You're a yak? No! The invisible yak, yes... that tells me to KILL THAT COBRA! Yarr! Okay..."

"...YOU CHOOSE DEATH!"



Of course, we only get to read the last sentence. And we don't get to smell the fecal matter caking his ship. We just put him out of his misery and move on, wondering... what the...

You just made my day!

 

[ZeroTolerance]

I do not agree if you dont like other players having more shield cells than you, then its your job to keep up with them not FD's job to make your game easier.

Simple as that!

 

[Defacto]

I do not agree if you dont like other players having more shield cells than you, then its your job to keep up with them not FD's job to make your game easier.

Simple as that!

Not really

 

[Adept]

Not really

Or more accurately, not at all. That was a pretty bizarre statement. I guess there are a few people who really love their shield potions.