Scrap or redesign shield cell modules, they are too overpowered and trivialize PvP.

[Morbad]

My fear is people will still simply equip themselves with two, to beat people who only have one.

I think this is a completely irrational and unfounded fear. Switching between them in combat is more dangerous than not having the second one at all; even just flipping to a different set of weapons groups wastes valuable time (if you have one set with two SCBs on it) or reduces one's weapon's versatility (if you have two groups, each with all weapons on one trigger, and a different SCB on another). Only the largest, most heavily shielded, ships can really take good advantage of more than one SCB module in PvP.

On smaller ships, more charges that a single good SCB can hold are either prohibitively heavy (every ton counts on Viper), or won't matter because one side will either chose to disengage long before they run out, or will hit a large enough volume of fire in a short enough period of time for the shields to fail despite the use of an SCB (fairly common with Cobra because of their relatively low peak shield strength).

I agree with the vocal majority that shield cells are ridicously overpowered, and trivialize NPC and PVP fights.

On what possible basis can you claim there is such a "majority". The total number of posters in this thread is a small fraction of the forum population, which is an even smaller fraction of the game population, which probably is not very representative.

 

[Flyinpiranha]

You get multiple charges which deplete, and you'll have to go back to a station to replenish them. I don't see what people are complaining about. Some people decide to go out without a Shield Generator, and some people decide to go out without SCB. We're flying expensive ships, and people are complaining that one has a better advantage (Which is available to the other person too), or takes too long to kill.

We sacrificed possible useful slots for an SCB, slots others apparently don't like to give up. SCB's are fine. They make tense battles with other SCB carriers last longer, instead of getting instantly demolished before you even realize whats up, and if you decide to not equip them, then that's your problem, not Frontier's

This is exactly my whole take on the thing. These ships cost MILLIONS in insurance. That's HOURS of playtime just if you die "once" and I think allowing a person to "heal" (within restrictions, cargo space, how many, and as long as their shield doesn't go all the way down) isn't unreasonable.

So far it just seems like a bunch of irritated Vipers and Cobras angry they can't demolish the 100m ship in 2 minutes.

You have the same ability to purchase and equip these things.

What if I don't run with a shield? Is that unfair, should other's have to unequip theirs?
What about hardpoints, some ships have more than others, is that not unfair? We should all have even hardpoints.
What about speed, outfitting? Those are ALL "unfair".
What about 4 players vs 1? Should it be limited so only 1v1 battles happen? 4vs1 seems unfair ...

This list goes on and on and on ... this is NOT a fair game. It's not evenly remotely balanced around "fair". A type 9 geared for trading can be killed by a Viper costing the T9 millions and millions of credits, hours and hours of playtime, whereas if the Viper was destroyed (how I don't know) it would cost them a pittance in comparison. That's not fair. Yet I see post after post of "come play in Open, guys!".

Basically, all I get from this when I hear people complain about these and use the term "potions" is that they're angry that their 5m ship can't destroy a 100m ship in 1 minute. "We want longer fights" .. .no you don't. You want insta-kills without the other player being able to escape, it's pretty simple. SCB prolong battles and even make it very tough to catch the person if they choose to run. That's how it should be. "To the death" shouldn't be 99% of your options when being interdicted or in a battle. This isn't some respawn timer game. Each death should mean something, not happen every time you are attacked.

It should be difficult to kill players. It should be difficult to kill Elite and higher rated NPCs. The fact that these "trivialize" the content for some people doesn't mean everybody out there is killing Anacondas with their Viper. I still haven't done it but I've only tried once or twice (honestly just got into bounty hunting) and if I didn't have SCBs I'd have to pay 1.7m in insurance every time I died. That's an hour of trading. I'm sorry, SCBs save me because I'm not "Dangerously Pro at PVP". If you don't want them, don't use them. If you don't want them, start a Private Group that agrees not to equip them if they are ruining your game.

Increase the dynamics of the AI, don't decrease the ability for players to save themselves.

 

[tagos]

Yeah... "shield healing potions" .. thats what they currently do (unless your shields are already down, they can't be used to bring collapsed shields back online).

You can only equip 1 shield cell module of one type so there is a limit to stacking utility. Your A5 shield cell will boost your A5 shield, your B5 cell, less so and your C5 even less. Filling your slots with them (at the expense of other useful modules) won't make you perpetually invulnerable. Especially against a skilled commander equipped to tackle shields.

 

[Captain N]

I think this is a completely irrational and unfounded fear. Switching between them in combat is more dangerous than not having the second one at all; even just flipping to a different set of weapons groups wastes valuable time (if you have one set with two SCBs on it) or reduces one's weapon's versatility (if you have two groups, each with all weapons on one trigger, and a different SCB on another). Only the largest, most heavily shielded, ships can really take good advantage of more than one SCB module in PvP.

You don't actually need to equip SCB's to a weapon group in order to use them. No occupying weapon triggers, no switching.

If you use a separate keybind for them it's literally just push button, replenish shields. And people are already stacking them.

 

[Adept]

I love em. I hope they don't remove them. By the looks of the conversation that was had earlier this is hopefully their plan also. Adjust the usage, but not remove them.

And before you ask, yes, I play Solo most of the time, or in a private group, "PVP", especially the afterthought of what it is in this game, doesn't seem fun to me, too high a price for too little cost to the attacker if I'm trading. I play this game as a single player game and I would hate to see them start chasing that unrealistic goal of "PVP balance".

If I want PVP I'll play a game designed around it like Guild Wars 2 or something that is more equal. Not 4 Vipers vs Type 6 "equal PVP".

That is not what is going to happen. The NPCs are not intended to be cannon fodder, nor is there supposed to be separate PvP and PvE builds. At least not according to the design goals in the DDF and from the Dev Diaries. That means that if the shield cells are to be kept, then the NPCs will be spamming them just as much, and it will make a complete grind out of PvE bounty hunting.

Forget about PvP / PvE in this. Think about what it's like when the NPCs have sensibly equipped ships, and they are using shield cells to drag out every single combat encounter. They should also spool up their FSD and get out when they start to run low, just like players. Shield cells a are a terrible, broken idea any way you look at it.

 

[Defacto]

I don't think it should be this difficult to kill players.
Ships like Pythons can already escape by FSD at will. Are we forgetting that? Do we need even more safety nets?
The reasons these ships costs millions in insurance is because they're the top of the line. If the cost of combat is trivial or even insiginificant, we need a newer class of even more expensive ships that bust Pythons and Anacondas, but that makes Cobras and Vipers a lot more useless, of course, and it's not something I support.

And another player unable to escape? Huh? When is a Python ever unable to escape?
You've seen these videos yourself, a Python attacked by 3 Vipers gets 8 minutes to decide when to escape, without loosing shields.

If SCB's were to be removed entirely, I think it would be fair to increase the strength of all ships, especially the large ones, but that's another discussion.

 

[Adept]

Didn't know what they did until now - so u can have as many as you want and u press a button and ur shields recharge?

That was a stupid idea then.

Yes. As long as you do it in time before the shields collapse, they re-fill your shield rings.

 

[ZappaBappa]

I'm not gonna read all 50 Pages of this thread, specially with a title like "overpowered" "trivialize" pvp. I came here for the OP, not everyone else's opinion. So what if it's a never ending battle. When i fly around with ships worth more than 500k, i'd rather take a never ending battle than have it be over fast. This game is a huge grind, and people just want everything given to them without effort.

People complain about unfair friendly fire giving bounties? Read the name it says "Dangerous"
People complain about being blasted to bits for staying in the opening of a station too long? "Dangerous"
People complain about losing millions worth of cargo, and not being able to buy it back because you were stupid enough to fly out without coverage? "Dangerous"

People think battles with multiple SCB's last too long? Well guess what, because it would be "Dangerous" without them. This game is a grind, everything you do in this game is a grind, long battles are a grind, long trade runs are a grind, bounty hunting is a grind. Why should they cater to some inpatient people who feel "cheated" out because someone else sacrificed a Second slot for another SCB. Or they simply don't want to waste their time fending off someone who isn't bothered by it, then just use your SCB's to get the hell out of there then.

Sure, one SCB per ship sounds allot better than equipping the entire thing with nothing but SCB's, but even then, that pilot sacrifices allot his functionality for survivability.

Just hold off the pitchforks for this until Wings come out. As soon as a ship is outnumbered, even SCB's wont save his shield.

 

[tagos]

Forget about PvP / PvE in this. Think about what it's like when the NPCs have sensibly equipped ships, and they are using shield cells to drag out every single combat encounter. They should also spool up their FSD and get out when they start to run low, just like players.

Great. Bring it on.

 

[Flyinpiranha]

That is not what is going to happen. The NPCs are not intended to be cannon fodder, nor is there supposed to be separate PvP and PvE builds. At least not according to the design goals in the DDF and from the Dev Diaries. That means that if the shield cells are to be kept, then the NPCs will be spamming them just as much, and it will make a complete grind out of PvE bounty hunting.

Forget about PvP / PvE in this. Think about what it's like when the NPCs have sensibly equipped ships, and they are using shield cells to drag out every single combat encounter. They should also spool up their FSD and get out when they start to run low, just like players. Shield cells a are a terrible, broken idea any way you look at it.

But even now we have players that don't run with them all the time. Why would every NPC have a ton of them? I only run with one in mine and it's a lower ranking, 6A shield, 5B sheild cell (think it's B, can't remember).

I don't understand why we need to equate NPC behavior to Player behavior, they are completely different. I have no problem with an NPC using one here and there, every NPC? No, that's ridiculous, just as ridiculous as making every NPC have the best outfitting, or best ranking, or min/max'ing the whole game.

They aren't a broken idea, are health potions a broken idea? Seem to have them in a ton of other games people love to play and enjoy.

I'll say it again, this game shouldn't be about death and only death. With the cost of death being so incredibly expensive once you jump above the Asp (and even including) level, death is something you'd try everything in your power to avoid.

Maybe this game just needs a separate PVP Arena where evenly matched ships could dogfight in 1v1, 2v2, 5v5, etc ... but wait, then the tactics of your loadout and "Wings" when you try and kill a Type 7 with 3 buddies in Vipers wouldn't happen, which is "totally OK" according to all the "lern2play" posts in threads.

SCBs should stay, removing them ONLY benefits small fighter pilots with little to lose and completely harms the ships that are actually worth more than 50m.

 

[Morbad]

You don't actually need to equip SCB's to a weapon group in order to use them. No occupying weapon triggers, no switching.

If you use a separate keybind for them it's literally just push button, replenish shields.

This fires all non-disabled ones at once, which is usually quite wasteful.

And people are already stacking them.

Largely to their own disadvantage.

 

[Adept]

We sacrificed possible useful slots for an SCB, slots others apparently don't like to give up. SCB's are fine. They make tense battles with other SCB carriers last longer, instead of getting instantly demolished before you even realize whats up, and if you decide to not equip them, then that's your problem, not Frontier's

You sacrifice nothing, if you are equipping for combat. There is nothing else to put in those slots.

It's absolutely a problem for Frontier. Players have to adapt to the conditions set by the game mechanics. If OP cheese is put into the game, the only option is to adapt and use it. It doesn't make it a good thing, or good game design.

 

[Adept]

Great. Bring it on.

So much for actually making money bounty hunting then. Or even PvE piracy.

 

[z80]

You don't actually need to equip SCB's to a weapon group in order to use them. No occupying weapon triggers, no switching.

If you use a separate keybind for them it's literally just push button, replenish shields. And people are already stacking them.

Right, but if you have several SC equipped, pressing the key uses 1 unit at a time from EACH one installed, doesn't it?

 

[soma]

[...]

I'll say it again, this game shouldn't be about death and only death. With the cost of death being so incredibly expensive once you jump above the Asp (and even including) level, death is something you'd try everything in your power to avoid.

[...]

SCBs should stay, removing them ONLY benefits small fighter pilots with little to lose and completely harms the ships that are actually worth more than 50m.

That IS a fair point. I am not advocating an SCB redesign because I want to slay player Anacondas in my l33t Vip0r. I definitely agree that big (and insanely expensive) ships should be tough as nails and something to be feared by the lowly Viper pilot. I am just saying I am not a big fan of the current mechanic for extending ship survivability. I am sure there are other mechanics out there which accomplish the same goal but are more engaging gameplay-wise.

 

[Marikc0]

Hopefully FD isn't asinine enough to listen to this thread.

It should be closed to be honest.

Then again, why should we ever be able to repair/heal/increase regen/etc in a video game? I mean, that never happens. That doesn't make sense at all. Hell, in real life we should stop medical research. We should stop innovating and making things better. Why would a spaceship ever need to repair itself or regenerate its shield in a bad situation?</sarcasm>

This is the most asinine community I've seen in ages.

 

[ZappaBappa]

You sacrifice nothing, if you are equipping for combat. There is nothing else to put in those slots.

It's absolutely a problem for Frontier. Players have to adapt to the conditions set by the game mechanics. If OP cheese is put into the game, the only option is to adapt and use it. It doesn't make it a good thing, or good game design.

Who's saying that i'm sticking solely to combat? I prefer having other things alongside my SBC, like Fuel scoops, or an FSI. Besides, this thing only has 5 charges, a 6 second recharge time which can be completely ruined if you just maintain your fire on the shield, and a 10 second? Cooldown to use the next one. I don't know what kind of fighting you do, but I've never been hampered by someone using an SBC, because the shield depletes faster than it recharges aslong as you maintain fire on it. He Escapes? get a FSWS and go after him, it's not like hes back to 100% Health just because he escaped.

What makes this any different from all the other unfair things this game has to offer? Like trading bringing in profits, bounty hunters can only dream off. Getting bounties for stray bullets. Losing your ship because someone rammed into you. People using gimbals, vs fixed.

This is not a problem for frontier, it's only a problem for people who just want an easy kill for no effort.

 

[wbonx]

agree.

They need to be nerfed, I suggest heat penalty, making them more expensive and heavy drain on energy. Coolddown is also a good idea.

 

[Derath]

My personal desire was for them to change it to a module that allowed you to transfer all of your current system energy into shields following the current power curve, but would require at least half to activate. That way your sys power is useful and can be used like a temporary battery to juggle round fill up / discharge.

 

[Flyinpiranha]

That IS a fair point. I am not advocating an SCB redesign because I want to slay player Anacondas in my l33t Vip0r. I definitely agree that big (and insanely expensive) ships should be tough as nails and something to be feared by the lowly Viper pilot. I am just saying I am not a big fan of the current mechanic for extending ship survivability. I am sure there are other mechanics out there which accomplish the same goal but are more engaging gameplay-wise.

I think that's the problem. You may say that they should be feared and such but that's not what I'm hearing from people complaining. They want the 2 minute fight (if that) and move on to the next. There's actually more skill involved using SCB's than if they just bumped the survivability of the big ships arbitrarily (shield capacity most likely) ... the player has to actively monitor the shields and such and even then, they may not be able to hit it in time if there was a coordinated attack. Unlike "health potions" you can't use it once your shield is down. That's your last line of defense.

It's as 'cheesy' as regenerating shields, IMO. It's just a way to boost it and it takes up cargo space. Regarding another poster mentioning that "if you're spec'd for battle you don't USE those spaces" ... well, good! Why shouldn't you be more equipped for survival and outfitted for destruction if you were going into battle? It makes perfect sense. If you want to fight fighter-spec'd people with SCBs you better bring them. I don't see people complaining about different loadouts or different weapons equipped. It's mainly "that Python lasted a while and got away, I don't want that to happen".