See, THAT's why I don't play Open.

[Mltdwn]

I have to admit, I really want to play in Open more often, and I've defended it quite a few times, but lately it's just been too annoying to fly in and I'm not sure I see the point of it anymore unless you just like to kill or be killed by other players.


It seemed like at the start the majority of CMDRs would be more about the social interaction, including some RP or whatever. The "bad guys" were more willing to try and pursue an actual profession (pirate, smuggling, etc), with the primary goal to get people to surrender or drop cargo. Now that the game has had a significant time after release, most of that has gone out the window, and the "bad guy" players have grinded out enough cash to get fur de lances and pythons and are just running around killing for the sake of killing instead. They don't bother to "pirate" or "smuggle", they don't ask for cargo, they don't want to talk, they just want the stats that say "I killed X players". Which is stupid since the majority of kills don't come from any kind of challenge but from some poor guy in a much weaker trading ship, or newbie in a sidewinder without a clue. This just makes more "normal" or "good guy" players switch to private pve groups to avoid them, which makes Open have even less social interaction, more gankers, and like a snake that eats it's own tail something that destroys itself.

See I have problems with people assigning arbitrary names like "pirate" or "smuggler" to others. I mean I myself am a talent scout, I go to systems where there is a high number of unemployed people who are unable to find work, and take them to corporations in other sectors that have jobs for them for a nice pay out... See talent scout... my wife though, no she calls it slave trading... It's not my fault the devs made the mistake of naming them "slaves" instead of "disenfranchised persons". See I'm helping them become re-enfranchised .

 

[Grimnir9]

OP, I hear ya. I'm two weeks into this game. I started out in open with nothing in my bank account, no upgrades, no cargo, and was trying to learn the system when I kept getting ganked by players. I tried making some credits by taking on missions, but would get pulled by players while I was supercrusing. I switched to solo to make some credits, get a better ship and weapons, and learn how to fly, and the other mechanics of the game. I want to get comfortable in something like a viper or vulture (and be able to afford losing them) before I jump back into Open. What most of these guys are saying is that if you don't want to interact with other players, then stay in solo. I look at solo as an extended training grounds where you can still lose your stuff, but you can also go back and see what you've done wrong, and improve. When you're ready, go into Open and be a Bo$$! That's my plan anyway.

To the guys who are telling the OP to stop whining, I hear ya. You have to remember that not all of us were playing this day one, or prelaunch. I know that you guys got use to the controls and the system mechanics, and are decent pilots. Coming into a game, fresh in the pond, and getting ganked by other players who can see that you're a greenhorn isn't the best introduction to an awesome game like this. After a while it does feel like harassment. That's why I think it's great that Frontier lets noobs play in a solo mode, to get our feet wet.

OP, I'm not going to tell you to suck it up, but I will say go into Open when you feel like you're ready. There will be gankers, but realize that this is the way the game is set up.

 

[Monsoon]

Is it possible to put bounties on players?
Maybe that would be a solution I don t know...but I think for realism you should be able to get attacked by other players.
If you were not then it would not feel realistic and you would almost never risk anything which is the reason why the game is great because you are never safe

 

[Dbrn47]

If you'd rather play solo than risk 144k, then play solo. If you like the online element with bigger risk, then play online. Just don't come here to tell us why you made the decision, no one really cares.

Hmm... 24 pages later... It would seem that you were incorrect in your assessment of other people not caring.

 

[Black Ops]

SC'ing back to the station from a RES, and a CMDR interdicts my Viper in his Vulture and just kills me for no reason. Didn't want anything, I hailed him, no reply, stowed my weapons, no reply, was drifting helplessly, no reply. I'm not that bothered, it was only 144k rebuy but it's 144k this guy took off me with no profit for himself or anything. In an hour of open play I've met 4 CMDRs, 2 killed me, 1 talked to me, 1 sparred with me. I know, it's only an hour but still..why bother?

I haven't read all of this threadnaught, so apologies if I'm redundant. When interdicted in a ship like a Viper..boost PAST the ganker, not in a straight line away. ganker has to re-acquire target,(well, at least he has to reaquire aim) and that usually gives you time enough to bounce. If in a Cobra, just boost, power to engines, no one will catch you. Larger trade ships are kinda screwed, if weaponless.

I'm learning to dogfight myself..but, situational awareness is key. I was player-interdicted a few days ago, by 2 players, one in an Eagle(fast tackle, basically), with another guy in a larger ship, I think they were going for the masslock-gank. I'd started lighting up the Eagle, but, as soon as I noticed his buddy I BOUNCED. It's a hit. No e-honor in getting jumped, and staying around to go toe-to-toe. When interdicted, I immediately deploy hardpoints, boost once, acquire target, then see what I can do. some of you seem to give throw up your hands when someone tries to get you.

try fighting back.

 

[Mortifa]

Yes statistically you're more likely to get killed by someone you know than a random stranger. It doesn't happen often but it happens.

However you can't say it's immersion breaking to have random killings when random killings happen in real life.

Hell, even in most fuctional space universes there's some form of killers who fly around and kill people.

- - - Updated - - -



How do you expect criminals to get caught if you can easily escape from the cops? Without an overhaul to the system you could send 10 police anacondas after me 24/7 and I'd still never get killed.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either keep it easy to escape, and criminals and prey can lulz fsd jump away, or make it hard to escape but the criminal has a harder time as well.

The way you responded sounded more like a whine about players getting away from interdictions, which I think is fair play. If you interdict me and start talking I will probably stop trying to boost away and see what we can work out, shoot first and I am gone if able and you (whomever they are) are a psychopath.

I am all for the pirating side of things and the random psychopath moment is fun, enjoyed it in Red Dead, but there were immediate consequences and logging, although an option, did not remove your bounty, you were wanted. It made the game fun. In this game killing is like stomping on ants, and to me that is just not fun. It is sad the developers did not think out mechanics to prevent preying on new or unarmed players. If you are being attacked by an overpowered opponent you should be able to drop an SOS beacon and anyone nearby should be able, NPC and Player, to come to your aid.

 

[Jack Schitt]

Personally I hate the minigame, it's just too "arcade" and not "sim". And it should be easy for a faster ship to evade interdiction, but I don't know about how easy it is for a big heavy trader ship to escape.

I'm not even sure if FD can "balance" out the disparate sides of the Interdiction argument. Other than protected trade lanes where you can't interdict (but profits are less) with alternate destinations that payout more but there's more chance of being interdicted, so the trader can play it safe and never get interdicted or go for greater credits reward and risk it.

I'm not sure I like the idea of a "protected trade lane", but how about this:

• The instant an interdiction occurs it sends out a massive "subspace spike" (insert your own preferred babble) that appears on the system-wide supercruise scanner as a lockable POI showing the names of both the interdictor (or wing leader if it's a wing) and the interdictee. All the time the interdiction battle is underway this POI remains, until the target submits or loses at which point the POI becomes the normal low-energy wake.
  
  
• While the "interdiction in progress" POI is visible, any ships -- player or AI -- can lock on and fly to it. Bounty hunters might head there in an attempt to catch pirates in the act. Other armed traders might try to intervene and help out. The pirate's friends, in the same instance but not necessarily in his wing, might head in to further bolster the numbers in his favour. Tying in with previous discussions, any authority vessels already in the system could automatically respond, while the nearest station(s) could despatch wings of their own.
  
  
• Nobody can interfere with the interdiction but, as soon as the target submits or loses, anyone who had the POI locked will now be automatically locked onto the low energy wake and can drop into the real-space instance.

The whole point of this is that the longer the interdiction mini-game plays out, the more help (or additional pirates!) will have had time to make their way to the scene. Depending on circumstances, submitting and running might no longer be the best option for the interdictee, since that would leave them on their own with anywhere between 1 and 4 hostile ships while help was still in supercruise. It might be better to fight the interdiction, even if he ultimately loses, because other ships will have had more time to get to the POI from where they can drop more quickly into the real-space instance. It might encourage people to play the interdiction game rather than just submit-and-boost as a default.

It could even introduce a tactical / situational awareness element and encourage people to cycle through supercruise targets if they're not already doing so: "I'm being interdicted: how many of the blobs on the scanner were authority ships? How many were from a friendly faction? How many hollow blobs were people I know? How many weren't and might they be working with the interdictor? Do I submit now and try running before his friends get here? Or do I fight the interdiction long enough for someone to come to my aid?"

Would that work? Or is it just over-egging an already problematic pudding?

 

[Morbad]

If you are being attacked by an overpowered opponent you should be able to drop an SOS beacon and anyone nearby should be able, NPC and Player, to come to your aid.

If you have report crimes on, AI enforcement generally shows up as quickly as they could reasonably be expected to, and anyone can drop into the low energy wakes made by being interdicted or submitting to interdiction.

I occasionally enter LEWs and assist obviously disadvantaged CMDRs against obvious pirates. Often I'm not fast enough to help, but sometimes I am.

 

[Mltdwn]

I am postulating the (non) success of a group formed to provide an alternative for people who kill because the game allows it AND "they can" by calling out and defining these people as bullies. And because in that "game" scenario, the "bully" would fold like wet tissue paper under the possibility of getting back what he gives.

Perhaps the definition of the word bully is lost on you?

If you enjoy the system as it is, fine. Fly well Cmdr.

You assume they would "fold" just like wet tissue paper. Some of us who enjoy combat and providing the "threat" and realism in the time we aren't doing trade routes would fight just as good as we get. We have no problems having people swoop in on us and trying to fight or escape to the best of our ability. If we succeed we have accomplished something that makes us feel tremendously good, if we fail then we have a learning opportunity on what to perhaps do different.

Of course I tend to go a bit overboard on preperation as well. Not only do I not fly what I am not willing to lose but I am presently sitting on over 60 mil credits and still flying my T-6. Once I hit 100 Mil then I'll upgrade and fully kit out a T-7, and once I hit about 2-3 times or more of the cost of a T-9 and the kitting out of it then I MAY begin considering upgrading to it. But I tend to be overkill in covering my bases and making the max possible loss of my present holdings should I lose in battle, fly into an asteroid (which I randomly did once for no reason I can figure out), or just jump between two twin suns then I can get back to where I was with a minimum of effort and loss.

Remember just because they attacked and killed you when you wanted not to have to deal with it does not make them a bully. If you don't want to deal with the risk of combat then play solo, if you do feel like it then jump back to open, you have full control. Heck if life is busy and I am just doing trading but don't have the ability to really focus on the game I gladly play solo just so I don't have to worry about too many surprises when taking care of household chores/items. Then when things quiet down and I have time to focus and want to feel the thrill of possibly being dropped out of frame shift and attacked while trying to transport goods I can jump back to open. It's whatever fits your mood at that time.

Remember problems are simply opportunities that have yet to present themselves.

I'm not sure I like the idea of a "protected trade lane", but how about this:

• The instant an interdiction occurs it sends out a massive "subspace spike" (insert your own preferred babble) that appears on the system-wide supercruise scanner as a lockable POI showing the names of both the interdictor (or wing leader if it's a wing) and the interdictee. All the time the interdiction battle is underway this POI remains, until the target submits or loses at which point the POI becomes the normal low-energy wake.
• While the "interdiction in progress" POI is visible, any ships -- player or AI -- can lock on and fly to it. Bounty hunters might head there in an attempt to catch pirates in the act. Other armed traders might try to intervene and help out. The pirate's friends, in the same instance but not necessarily in his wing, might head in to further bolster the numbers in his favour. Tying in with previous discussions, any authority vessels already in the system could automatically respond, while the nearest station(s) could despatch wings of their own.
• Nobody can interfere with the interdiction but, as soon as the target submits or loses, anyone who had the POI locked will now be automatically locked onto the low energy wake and can drop into the real-space instance.

The whole point of this is that the longer the interdiction mini-game plays out, the more help (or additional pirates!) will have had time to make their way to the scene. Depending on circumstances, submitting and running might no longer be the best option for the interdictee, since that would leave them on their own with anywhere between 1 and 4 hostile ships while help was still in supercruise. It might be better to fight the interdiction, even if he ultimately loses, because other ships will have had more time to get to the POI from where they can drop more quickly into the real-space instance. It might encourage people to play the interdiction game rather than just submit-and-boost as a default.

It could even introduce a tactical / situational awareness element and encourage people to cycle through supercruise targets if they're not already doing so: "I'm being interdicted: how many of the blobs on the scanner were authority ships? How many were from a friendly faction? How many hollow blobs were people I know? How many weren't and might they be working with the interdictor? Do I submit now and try running before his friends get here? Or do I fight the interdiction long enough for someone to come to my aid?"

Would that work? Or is it just over-egging an already problematic pudding?

Actually that is kind of an awesome idea and makes sense. An interdictor traditionally works by projecting a false gravity well/mass shadow, thus it would show up on scanner and be pinging and everything else as everyone would see this sudden creation of a gravity well/mass shadow that wasn't in the system previously (within a certain range). Fits the technology perfectly and makes perfect sense. And it would be noticeable as it would have to be of significant size in the projection to take an Anaconda out of frame shift, so the mass is larger than that of a Conda by a good amount (actually can another Anaconda mass lock an Anaconda).

 

[Ghostwind40]

I only play in open, even when I am trading or mining.

The potential for hostile interactions with other CMDRs while I am doing these things are, quite frankly, the only thing that makes their tedium worthwhile. Also, such interactions most certainly do make me more game wise and improve my skills; I learn from every single interdiction, every shot fired at me.

I credit a near death experience at the hands of Jordan Cobalt, when he interdicted my unarmed Asp twice in a row with a Clipper, for teaching me that mass lock didn't apply hyperspace jumps. I lost a few dozen tons of rares through a shot out cargo hatch (which I do not think he collected as he seemed intent on shooting me down at this point and he followed me into another instance before there could possibly have been time to scoop), but I escaped with my ship, the bulk of my cargo, and more knowledge than I had before. My tactics in such situations are now far more refined, and in the same encounter, I'd be at essentially zero risk of even losing shields now. The whole experience was a blast and highly profitable in all manner of ways.

If constantly having players wanting to kill you with no reason other than to kill you to pad their stats - and you escaping from it, is something you find rewarding than that's fine. I personally don't believe thinking of better ways to be more skilled at running away from player killers is all that fun or balances the risk. But I guess to each his own. It's possible you might end up one day being the very last person trading in Open, having mastered such evasion skills.

I think it would be more fun to be in an environment with some reasoning behind player killing (you tried to run when you didn't need to, you were part of the empire but they were part of the feds, you were wanted and have a huge bounty, you were smuggling illegal cargo, etc). Not simply because of people that just want to pad their player kill stats.

 

[Jorlin]

Although i play solo...

there is no real "open" play as long as the network model is P2P.
i don't even talk about client memory hacks...
it's just about your local network authority.
this gives me every option to select who i want to play with and under which conditions.
i don't have to hack the game, i just have to manage my network.

and my network ist mine!
there is no way to get around this.
i am the only person deciding which packets reach their destination, which destinations that might be, which delay is applied, how many packets are dropped....

as long as my client is a server, i'm king of the hills

 

[Mortifa]

If you have report crimes on, AI enforcement generally shows up as quickly as they could reasonably be expected to, and anyone can drop into the low energy wakes made by being interdicted or submitting to interdiction.

I occasionally enter LEWs and assist obviously disadvantaged CMDRs against obvious pirates. Often I'm not fast enough to help, but sometimes I am.

I did not know that, thank you.

Still think we should have SOS beacons. If you can drop a wing beacon you should be able to call in help from nearby commanders if needed, it would also make Lave a much more interesting place....

 

[Leper Messiah]

Collateral damage isn't accidental, it's wrong place wrong time. it may not be truly random but it's certainly not accidental.

erm, yes it is accidental.

Collateral damage is damage to things that are incidental to the intended target. It is frequently used as a military term where non-combatants are accidentally or unintentionally killed or wounded and/or non-combatant property damaged as result of the attack on legitimate military targets.


You have to target someone/thing and knowingly press the trigger to unleash payload at said target for it not to be accidental/collateral.

A random killing is someone picking someone else at random and pre premeditatedly killing that person. That is the action of a psychopath/sociopath

There's no other way for a skill based interdiction other than the minigame, we could have a rng interdiction which is luck based but I think that is worse.

Magic pirate-free zones seem more arcadey. Arbitrarily limited someone's actions doesn't seem like good gameplay to me.

It's not magic, it's areas with anti interdiction devices...hence lanes, hence reduced profits, because systems with these lanes will charge the trader.

If Elite continues to be an unrealistic free for all then players will leave open and pirates will have no-one to rob.

 

[Axium]

I got interdicted for the first time yesterday, and it was awesome. I got pulled out by 3 people, that told me to shut my engines off or they'd blow me up. I told them I didn't have anything valuable, and that I was just exploring. They scanned my cargo, saw I was telling the truth, then told me I could go.

It was just cool to get to experience that. Even if they had blown me up, I don't think I would have been too bothered.

 

[CMDR i Tetsuo]

I really like the idea of making interdictions more visible to others in the vicinity allowing them time to help/join the attack, especially the part about it giving reason for interdictees to prolong the process instead of insta-submitting...
(Jack Schitt's idea not mine)
-
Good ideas come from discussion not name calling, good on the commanders here helping!

 

[Mltdwn]

If constantly having players wanting to kill you with no reason other than to kill you to pad their stats - and you escaping from it, is something you find rewarding than that's fine. I personally don't believe thinking of better ways to be more skilled at running away from player killers is all that fun or balances the risk. But I guess to each his own. It's possible you might end up one day being the very last person trading in Open, having mastered such evasion skills.

I think it would be more fun to be in an environment with some reasoning behind player killing (you tried to run when you didn't need to, you were part of the empire but they were part of the feds, you were wanted and have a huge bounty, you were smuggling illegal cargo, etc). Not simply because of people that just want to pad their player kill stats.

Um are you suddenly psychic or able to magically determine by looking into a crystal ball or something that that is what they are doing, just padding their stats? Maybe they just kitted out their ship with new gear and want to see how it performs against various other player geared ships... Maybe they are just screwing around to while away the time.... I mean unless they go "Yaaarrrr!!! I am going to kill you so I can become the highest statted pirate in the 7 sectors.... Yaaarrrr!!!" that is a pretty big assumption based on pretty much zero fact.

As for "no one ever kills just to kill", I take it you have never seen any of the Mad Max movies, played the Borderlands series, or any other number of books, movies and games with crazed killers wandering around doing whatever they want? I mean in Mad Max they and killed his wife and son just because they felt like it, in borderlands you have a huge range of psychos wandering the land and killing whomever they come across, in McArthy's "The Road" you have whole large communities which go out killing and hunting other humans for food and sport. Outside of the laws of society as we know it people tend to revert to their animalistic, kill, loot and pillage everyone not us personalities.

 

[SteveLaw]

I got interdicted for the first time yesterday, and it was awesome. I got pulled out by 3 people, that told me to shut my engines off or they'd blow me up. I told them I didn't have anything valuable, and that I was just exploring. They scanned my cargo, saw I was telling the truth, then told me I could go.

It was just cool to get to experience that. Even if they had blown me up, I don't think I would have been too bothered.

That I have no problem at all with but can I ask, would you have felt differently if they interdicted you and then blew up with no demands, no response to your hails, no communication at all?

 

[Morbad]

If constantly having players wanting to kill you with no reason other than to kill you to pad their stats - and you escaping from it, is something you find rewarding than that's fine. I personally don't believe thinking of better ways to be more skilled at running away from player killers is all that fun or balances the risk. But I guess to each his own. It's possible you might end up one day being the very last person trading in Open, having mastered such evasion skills.

I think it would be more fun to be in an environment with some reasoning behind player killing (you tried to run when you didn't need to, you were part of the empire but they were part of the feds, you were wanted and have a huge bounty, you were smuggling illegal cargo, etc). Not simply because of people that just want to pad their player kill stats.

There aren't even player kill stats any more, not visible ones anyway.

Their motivations aren't really relevant to me. Everyone's got one, and they are all as far as I am concerned. Anyone who interdicts me for any reason, any one who scans me for any reason, anyone who shoots me for any reason, without my permission, is an enemy to be destroyed or avoided, depending on what's more practical at the moment.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Um are you suddenly psychic or able to magically determine by looking into a crystal ball or something that that is what they are doing, just padding their stats? Maybe they just kitted out their ship with new gear and want to see how it performs against various other player geared ships... Maybe they are just screwing around to while away the time.... I mean unless they go "Yaaarrrr!!! I am going to kill you so I can become the highest statted pirate in the 7 sectors.... Yaaarrrr!!!" that is a pretty big assumption based on pretty much zero fact.

As for "no one ever kills just to kill", I take it you have never seen any of the Mad Max movies, played the Borderlands series, or any other number of books, movies and games with crazed killers wandering around doing whatever they want? I mean in Mad Max they and killed his wife and son just because they felt like it, in borderlands you have a huge range of psychos wandering the land and killing whomever they come across, in McArthy's "The Road" you have whole large communities which go out killing and hunting other humans for food and sport. Outside of the laws of society as we know it people tend to revert to their animalistic, kill, loot and pillage everyone not us personalities.

you're quoting LAWLESS entertainment media. The Elite galaxy is NOT lawless. People should not be able to randomly PK for no good reason in Elite.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

. If you are being attacked by an overpowered opponent you should be able to drop an SOS beacon and anyone nearby should be able, NPC and Player, to come to your aid.

This idea gets brought up a lot. I do like the idea a lot and it there's no reason it shouldn't be in the game.

I don't think shouldn't be automatic, but something you can activate or maybe even an internal module you can buy. Once activated, it shows a message on the hud of all players in the instance and system you were just in. Something like "commander distress beacon detected", then they could target and enter it like a uss.

It would also call the police, similar to getting atacked will, and give you an eta until they show up. It wouldn't make them show up faster, but it would at least let you know how long you have to stay alive for. Giving players at least a little control over something, will be better than having zero control. Also it allows other players to get in on the action thus adding to gameplay.