Sense Of Scale

[lenna]

If you can assume the cockpit of your ship looks like a jet fighter or the space shuttle without realizing you are wrong then something is wrong in the game

I totally disagree because that assumption is ridiculous in the context of the space craft like we have in ED. The ONLY case where this assumption is probably anything like fair or reasonable is perhaps in the context of the SLF. It does not require mental gymnastics to understand this simple principle.

My point wrt to the seat design was to emphasise the context for the size of the ship that is already present - if you ignore the ergonomic factors then you are ignoring a major factor in design of ship internals and the sense of scale reference points such factors provide.

As for "needing things to grab onto", there is the crew chair and other ship surfaces for moving around (if necessary).

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I totally disagree because that assumption is ridiculous in the context of the space craft like we have in ED. The ONLY case where this assumption is probably anything like fair or reasonable is perhaps in the context of the SLF. It does not require mental gymnastics to understand this simple principle.

As simple as you claim it is, you are the only one who doesn't need mental gymnastics around here. Not sure why that is but as I told you, you really can't change the perception (and I mean physical perception here) of players, you can however, modify the game to make more noticeable the scales.

So what do you want to fix? The unfixable or the fixable?

 

[777Driver]

So what do you want to fix? The unfixable or the fixable?

So are you basically asking the devs to redesign ships for a minority of cmdrs that have issues judging scale? Not quite sure what you want?

Am trying to understand from your point of view, in my mind it all seems like the equivalent of watching something on TV (never having viewed the same thing in reality) then coming to the conclusion that it all looks wrong, and wanting things to be changed. All the while Cmdrs who actually sit inside these ships and view the environment in 1:1 scale are saying the scale is correct.

Can't remember if you have a VR headset, do you live in the UK? Am working away from home so my CV1 is gathering dust, could arrange for you to demo mine.

Edit - Actually my girlfriend is flying over in a few weeks, she is bringing my DK2, was planning on giving it to a Cmdr here, you could test drive that for a while.

 

[Good Death]

There is definitely something going on. Is it scale or?????[where is it]
I've been wondering about this issue for a long time. Even before I had VR.
These screens were taken in VR.

Spoiler

[/IMG]

Spoiler

[/IMG]

 

[Old Duck]

All the while Cmdrs who actually sit inside these ships and view the environment in 1:1 scale are saying the scale is correct.

.....

There is definitely something going on. Is it scale or?????[where is it]
I've been wondering about this issue for a long time. Even before I had VR.
These screens were taken in VR.

hmmmmm....

All the while Cmdrs who actually sit inside these ships and view the environment in 1:1 scale are saying the scale is correct.

You were saying?

 

[777Driver]

Do you have roomscale? You can do a trick to get closer to the canopy if you don't. Bottom line, walk right up to that canopy and then take a screen shot and post it here.

Edit - Just logged into the game to do it myself, no dropships for sale here. It's a Friday night, am heading out soon. Am not going to fly around looking for a dropship. Maybe later when I get home.

Completely understand what some of you are saying, at the same time I am blown away, purely because the above pic is distorted, and I want to use the old father ted, near.. Far away joke.

 

[BL1P]

There is definitely something going on. Is it scale or?????[where is it]
I've been wondering about this issue for a long time. Even before I had VR.
These screens were taken in VR.

Those two pictures are an excellent example of how the scale is wrong in elite.

Thank you !

 

[Darkfyre99]

Completely understand what some of you are saying, at the same time I am blown away, purely because the above pic is distorted, and I want to use the old father ted, near.. Far away joke.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Assuming it's a Federal Dropship, it seems to me that the Command Chair is a fair distance from the canopy supports in question.

Link, because I'm not going post a high-res .jpg to a site where innocent mobile internet users may visit.

edit: Good morning! Link now takes you to a page where you can select your resoultion, because naturally wikia did the old "direct link? not on our watch" thing.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

So are you basically asking the devs to redesign ships for a minority of cmdrs that have issues judging scale? Not quite sure what you want?

Well, I'd say the majority of players have issues with the perception of scale (hence the existance of this thread and its persistance). Honestly I won't ask the devs to change anything, it's far too late. I'm just saying that ED has some issues with conveying scale in monitors.

Am trying to understand from your point of view, in my mind it all seems like the equivalent of watching something on TV (never having viewed the same thing in reality) then coming to the conclusion that it all looks wrong, and wanting things to be changed. All the while Cmdrs who actually sit inside these ships and view the environment in 1:1 scale are saying the scale is correct.

If by 1:1 scale you mean VR then I'm not surprised you have a better grasp of the scale but whichever reason it is, I never claimed the scale of things was wrong, I claimed that the perceived scale of things is wrong, in other words, very few would guess with no prior knowledge of the dimensions the size of ships or stations.

Can't remember if you have a VR headset, do you live in the UK? Am working away from home so my CV1 is gathering dust, could arrange for you to demo mine.

Edit - Actually my girlfriend is flying over in a few weeks, she is bringing my DK2, was planning on giving it to a Cmdr here, you could test drive that for a while.

I live in Mexico and I don't have a VR headset, but hey, at least I know how to write english

 

[lenna]

As simple as you claim it is, you are the only one who doesn't need mental gymnastics around here.

Hardly, I am not the only one who is saying the sense of scale is fine.

 

[Old Duck]

As simple as you claim it is, you are the only one who doesn't need mental gymnastics around here. Not sure why that is..

LAUREL

Hardly, I am not the only one who is saying the sense of scale is fine.

YANNI

Spoiler

I hear Laurel

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Hardly, I am not the only one who is saying the sense of scale is fine.

I forgot about 777. Did I miss somebody else?

 

[Darkfyre99]

I foorgot about 777. Did I miss somebody else?

*raises hand*

While I do think Frontier are using a bit of false perspective to make the default 2D cockpit view look good, the illusion starts breaking down once you start moving your head, even with the just two degrees of freedom mouselook uses, let alone the 6DoF that trackIR or especially VR provide.

 

[lenna]

*raises hand*

While I do think Frontier are using a bit of false perspective to make the default 2D cockpit view look good, the illusion starts breaking down once you start moving your head, even with the just two degrees of freedom mouselook uses, let alone the 6DoF that trackIR or especially VR provide.

Don't forget there are the camera modes too to get a better appreciation for the size of the cockpit if anyone is having issues without 3D or Head tracking.

 

[lenna]

...

Please cut the attempts at personal attacks/comments just because you can not come up with a reasonable and justifiable counter based on reasonable assumptions.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Don't forget there are the camera modes too to get a better appreciation for the size of the cockpit if anyone is having issues without 3D or Head tracking.

ED is a first person game.

*raises hand*

While I do think Frontier are using a bit of false perspective to make the default 2D cockpit view look good, the illusion starts breaking down once you start moving your head, even with the just two degrees of freedom mouselook uses, let alone the 6DoF that trackIR or especially VR provide.

So three people it is who coincidentally have used VR.

 

[lenna]

ED is a first person game.

Irrelevant to the point I was making... if people really can not judge perspective properly from the main view that is given then they can banish their assumptions by using the camera views.

So three people it is who coincidentally have used VR.

Moot in the main, I was playing ED for a LONG time without VR (well over 6 months) and never had any issues with the sense of scale even then.

VR does look impressive BUT it has zero impact on the sense of scale IMO.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Irrelevant to the point I was making... if people really can not judge perspective properly from the main view that is given then they can banish their assumptions by using the camera views.

So you do want to fix the unfixable. What a brave choice, well then, teach me master, how should I see ED to get the sense of scale?

Moot in the main, I was playing ED for a LONG time without VR (well over 6 months) and never had any issues with the sense of scale even then.

VR does look impressive BUT it has zero impact on the sense of scale IMO.

It might be your case but I've certainly heard VR users say the scale of ED looks much different than in 2D screens.

 

[Tarman]

Irrelevant to the point I was making... if people really can not judge perspective properly from the main view that is given then they can banish their assumptions by using the camera views.


Moot in the main, I was playing ED for a LONG time without VR (well over 6 months) and never had any issues with the sense of scale even then.

VR does look impressive BUT it has zero impact on the sense of scale IMO.

My assumption is that the firstgen ships and pads were built for waay larger doods, and enshrankenated on the interiors to fit much smaller doods and their space cabins, without properly re-greebling the outsides. That's my issue with scale, stuff being built in two different ones. Nothing to do with actual spatial awareness and everything to do with the model making processes.

 

[Darkfyre99]

It might be your case but I've certainly heard VR users say the scale of ED looks much different than in 2D screens.

Like I said, I'm pretty sure that Frontier, when they designed the ship's cockpits, have used a bit of false perspective to make the cockpits look good when used the default, fixed position camera, while still allowing for future features like space legs in VR. If a player never uses any of the 2DoF headlook options available in the game, let alone 6DoF head tracking options like track IR (or VR), I do think it's possible to make incorrect assumptions about the layout of your cockpit.

But I've been playing since Alpha, and I've only had VR for a little over a year now, and what blew me away when I first stepped into Elite VR wasn't a sense of scale, but a sense of presence. It is the difference between looking at a photo of your ship's bridge, and being physically present in the world itself. Certain things did surprise me. I didn't think the canopy was so low in the Sidewinder, for example, and I was startled to discover that escape pods were the size and shape of coffins​. But for the most part, things were about the size I expected them to be, at least when it comes to a ship's bridge.