So you want to play in Open, eh?

[Iain L]

Hopefully, CQC will provide an income high enough to warrant folks playing the PVP side of the equation in the galaxy. Of course, while they are playing that..who will be in Open?

I don't know if a large income matters that much; just as the CG group weren't making any direct money on their 90-minute trips (and even once the rewards are given out it's not going to be that great a return), CODE weren't paid a thing for the kills they took - I doubt they caught many bounties off it and I've not heard a single tale of them bothering to scoop up the trash to deposit. Blowing people up because it's fun was their goal.

If people who just want to blow others up because it's fun are playing CQC instead of doing things in Open that actually earn money, then so much the better.

 

[salad]

I never had any problem with CODE until this event.

The way I see things, Hutton was the battlefield.

CODE wanted to stop the ships bringing scrap? Fine, but at least try to EARN control of the battlefield. But instead, when outnumbered, you guys just camped the landing pads.

CMDRs fighting against CODE members had to wait until they had WANTED status before attacking, and you guys just kept camping the landing pads.

Nothing against the murderous behavior but camping the pads was a lame and childish move.

 

[TheDayman]

I think all Code wants is justification and acknowledgement.

CODE IS AWESOME YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST OMG I WANT TO BE JUST LIKE YOU WHEN I GROW UP!

:-D

 

[Roybe]

From the way you're talking, it seems like your definition of "skill in PvP" has nothing to do with actual skill, but the honor to fly a smaller ship to be fair to others in smaller ships. If you think a rail cobra is an actual choice for high scale PvP you're sorely mistaken. It's a gimmick; sure an experienced pilot can do some work on it but it's an annoying fly that doesn't do much and gets swatted down within seconds of an enemy deciding they actually want to deal with it. The Code has some of the best PvP pilots in the game, and that's because of practice with other PvP groups coupled with most of us having almost a year of experience.

Moving on, I outright call bullbutter on your accusations of "SCB spamming cowards"; Hutton has no reload capabilities whatsoever, meaning that we all ran out of shield cells within the first hour of the first day; leaving us the rest of the time of the CG going up against anacondas with prismatic stand 40+ SCBs, and still managing to kill them. It was honestly a great experience fighting with the bounty hunters in the system trying to drive us out; they soon ran out of SCBs and it was quite interesting g to in essence take the constant suggestions of "remove SCBs" and take it for a test run.

Well it certainly seemed like plenty of SCB's were being used last night! So how does that work?

 

[mxcross2002]

i think if man ever get's this far ( as in game ) this would be an actual real life debate ,
we are like this on earth what makes anyone think space would be any different ,
the human race has a percentage of evil and crime and always will .

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Don't wanna play open, this is a good thread to see why. Bad enough when people just wanna ruins somebodys fun, but when they start to put that much effort into it like some groups and individuals are doing its really messed up.

But its alright, the good thing about ED is that everybody can choose who he wants to play with. Don't wanna play with the Code? Then don't do it. Its not like open is in anyway better then the other modes and you have to play there, its the same game in all modes all that is diffrent is who you play with.

 

[biohazard15]

Heck, the CODE should saw the party we put after CG's end. Chaffs bursting! CMDRs doing aerobatics inches above Pad 3! Making new friends!
To all who participated in Hutton Run: you are truly the best!
To CODE: You are sad losers who wanted to ruin our fun - but failed miserably.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
I certainly support the idea of showing up potential weaknesses by pushing the game hard in a given direction...

Ideally this would happen in the beta phase, that's why there is a beta phase I suppose. Pushing the game, finding problematic game mechanics, finding possible exploits and then telling the developer about that and maybe even offer some ideas how to fix it.
Pushing the game in a given direction should, after beta has ended, happen outside the game - in my opinion. Anyway, trying to convince the developer to change the game in a way that is completely valid.

… If they create to tight of a justice system no one will play the bad guys. At which point they might as well just go PVE in Open since PVP will be non-existent. …

I disagree with you in this aspect. I don't think that "bad guys/gals" are needed in a game to get fun, interesting PvP. It only needs reasons to attack other players. Preferable in-game reasons. War between different factions for example. No need to play a role almost everybody hates. There's no need for "good" or "bad". One of EDs problem is it's minimalistic concentration on "roles" - "pirate", bounty hunter, miner, explorer and trader. A very harsh justice system could actually add a lot to the game when it comes to PvP will allowing players to choose how they play in open - if the system offers more options for legal combat interaction.

There could be official piracy between factions ("letters of marque") that allow pirating faction aligned CMDRs. There could be official trading contracts for CMDRs that would turn them into legit targets for "official pirates" but offer better profit/reputation. Galaxy wide bounties would allow bounty hunting (oh and remove the insane power consumption of KWS).

For example: Kumo crew members could be kill on site in almost all parts of the galaxy, but they would get high rewards for their piracy and they would get access to "secret" pirate bases all around the galaxy. Federation CMDRs could get a "letter of marque" to pirate in imperial space, but only official imperial traders. If they pirate others they would face harsh punishment for the Empire and the Federation (and not only form the system the crime happened). Traders could stay independent, that way they would be saver, but get less profitable deals. High security systems would have very harsh security responses but less profit that could be made there (it costs to maintain a security fleet), low security system would offer high profit but higher risks. A pirate in a low security or anarchy system could make more money there, but getting into a high security system would result in very harsh reactions from security forces.

The galaxy would be much more interesting without the "bad" vs. "good" roles.

Enough off topic

 

[ianw]

4. Don't ever, ever, ever combat log. Not only do we report every single combat log to FDEV you instantly go on our kill-on-sight list and there won't be a friendly warning.

Whilst you're dispensing knowledge I'd really love to know how you can be certain someone has combat logged?

Seeing as how all FD can see from any incident is that the client disconnected without going through the menu - not what the cause of that non-menu disconnection was.

 

[NeilF]

The Hutton blockade was quite literally an off-the-cuff suggestion by me (yes, blame me for all of it, I have thick skin) as we were bored to tears in-game and were pretty mad at such a ludicrous idea for a CG already.

Kudos for trying to group togethor and do something "interesting"... The game in truth needs more of this. But it's a shame the mechanics don't support it very well, or in some areas, at all.

I'd love to see more varied and deeper mechanics in the game to allow groups to actually try and do "other things" - let's call it emergent gameplay... But I'd suggest at the moment, the mechanics are so simplistic and minimal that it looks nigh on impossible IMHO.

It would be brilliant to actually see some well thought out blockage mechanic introduced into the game, at the very least as a Community Goal. But if it proved effective it could even be used with Powerplay possibly to resolve appropriate situations.

You haven't seen us truly plan for and execute a determined operation yet. You've only seen what we can achieve with hasty 5-minute planning.

...and there lies the problem. I fear the current sandbox (mechanics) won't let you achieve anything of worth or merit; You can't change a single political outcome or even move a single CR no matter how hard you try.

It's a shame really.


And finally onto the nature of the tactics being used. While some were in keeping with the game - ie: interdiction and the like - some were, to be frank, simply "trolling" IMHO. Blocking a pad for hours simply because of a loophole in the game mechanics? It achieves nothing in truth other than annoying folks (who duck into SOLO) and wastes hours of your time. Or ramming ships outside the platform? Again, another example of the shallow mechanics in the game which desperately need attention...

I'm sure some of the individuals were trying to "play fair," but I have to suggest some others just came across as griefers to be honest. I mean why repeatedly take down the HuttonOrbital.com live Twitch feed ship? All it achieved was grief to its CMDR, and annoyance to the dozens of people enjoying the feed from it... But that said, I actually hope, given another CG akin to this one, you pull exactly the same (loop-hole) tricks again TBH! Because if FD don't improve these areas it would be a sad reflection IMHO.

But anyway, thanks for highlighting flaws and weakness in the current mechanics

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Heck, the CODE should saw the party we put after CG's end. Chaffs bursting! CMDRs doing aerobatics inches above Pad 3! Making new friends!
To all who participated in Hutton Run: you are truly the best!

You should have ended there ... on a high note

 

[Snarfbuckle]

In my opinion, anyone who chooses to play in open must face the antisocial elements that live there. It's the same as real life - you learn to stay out of certain parts of town at certain times, or you go prepared!

As long as those who are antisocial has to face the consequences they face in real life im ok with it.

That is, being antisocial has both legal and other consequences.

Right now by that comparison antisocial people can beat someone to near death in real life and get a slap on the wrist while the victim gets a hefty medical bill and have to rebuild their lives.

 

[Shizuka]

This happens because the Bounty Hunters doesnt have a good system to back them up when they want to hunt a specific commander.

And thats why Crime is not punished in this game, and we can do whatever we want.

 

[Raile]

As long as those who are antisocial has to face the consequences they face in real life im ok with it.

That is, being antisocial has both legal and other consequences.

Right now by that comparison antisocial people can beat someone to near death in real life and get a slap on the wrist while the victim gets a hefty medical bill and have to rebuild their lives.

You don't read the news much do you

 

[lenna]

i think if man ever get's this far ( as in game ) this would be an actual real life debate ,
we are like this on earth what makes anyone think space would be any different ,
the human race has a percentage of evil and crime and always will .

The point is that this is not RL and it is an MMO Game.
---
MMO Games are essentially a form of social media and should be subject to the same basic principles of what is considered "acceptable behaviour" in the open environment. The "Hutton Incident" is an example of where a group have crossed the line IMO. Normally in social media, comparable behaviour would not be without RW consequences - perhaps it is time for FD to draw a line and stand up for what is ultimately right in the opinions of what seems to be many people.
---
I think no-one wants Open play to be a police state but currently the situation is next to anarchy (or at least seems to be).

 

[biohazard15]

You should have ended there ... on a high note

I do agree, but the CODE really should know that their efforts failed!

 

[smiths121]

On OP topic.

I like opposed GGs, not had them since Lugh so I think Hutton brought something to the game we have not had for a long time, albeit at the discretion of CODE. I did not take part in Hutton, or indeed have my ship blown up by CODE, but a 40 minute SC with a group publicly saying they are blockading would have put me off. If I simply had to take part, I would have joined the convoys from Wolf if insisting on open.

Having skimmed this thread, and a few others like it, have to say PvPers moaning wanting change, traders moaning wanting change - risk/reward seems about right to me. I am also a supporter of the solo/group/open mechanism, I encourage players learning to use solo, teach people in group and play in open.

I really do not understand players using open for a CG after a group of pirates have said they are going to blockade the CG destination for political reasons. CODE do actually pirate at most CGs, so for them to make a public announcement sort of suggests you have to re-evaluate the risk/reward of the CG, me I could not give 2 hoots about a mug made of scrap.

I think CODE went a little over board with their strategy of warning in SC and no warning in tactical - just shoot. They certainly did not make too many friends, but then they are a pirate group lol. I hope they review their tactics, as I suspect they will have other disagreements with the rest of the community (I really mean the rest of humanity) going forward.

to the OP I am opposed to the removal of the HW no mass lock escape from interdict, you have to give the Type-7s and Type-9s a chance. At least they do not walk around with no shield generators at all any more.

Simon

 

[Roybe]

I don't know if a large income matters that much; just as the CG group weren't making any direct money on their 90-minute trips (and even once the rewards are given out it's not going to be that great a return), CODE weren't paid a thing for the kills they took - I doubt they caught many bounties off it and I've not heard a single tale of them bothering to scoop up the trash to deposit. Blowing people up because it's fun was their goal.

If people who just want to blow others up because it's fun are playing CQC instead of doing things in Open that actually earn money, then so much the better.

I can promise you code took bounties for every kill. They took bounties for every attack...it is unavoidable.

My point is that PVP has NO income attached to it. Everything with it is a cost. Just like the CG group...you can only PVP in spurts...if your goal is to kill someone...or you risk having bounties so high that you wind up back in a Sidewinder. To prevent this you HAVE to grind out credits some other way to cover the eventuality. PVE is king...PVP is supported after you pay the PVE it's due.

Well the problem I see with CQC is that competitive PVP is not everyone's cup of tea...particularly certain PVP players that have other reasons for PVP. So, Open has fewer 'nice' PVP players (decreasing your risk of interdiction) but more 'nefarious' types of PVP players (you risk for poor outcomes from PVP increases). This is not a recipe for a fun, Open mode.

We, obviously will have to wait and see where this all goes.

 

[Bjorna]

From the way you're talking, it seems like your definition of "skill in PvP" has nothing to do with actual skill, but the honor to fly a smaller ship to be fair to others in smaller ships. If you think a rail cobra is an actual choice for high scale PvP you're sorely mistaken. It's a gimmick; sure an experienced pilot can do some work on it but it's an annoying fly that doesn't do much and gets swatted down within seconds of an enemy deciding they actually want to deal with it. The Code has some of the best PvP pilots in the game, and that's because of practice with other PvP groups coupled with most of us having almost a year of experience.

Moving on, I outright call bullbutter on your accusations of "SCB spamming cowards"; Hutton has no reload capabilities whatsoever, meaning that we all ran out of shield cells within the first hour of the first day; leaving us the rest of the time of the CG going up against anacondas with prismatic stand 40+ SCBs, and still managing to kill them. It was honestly a great experience fighting with the bounty hunters in the system trying to drive us out; they soon ran out of SCBs and it was quite interesting g to in essence take the constant suggestions of "remove SCBs" and take it for a test run.

I'm fully aware of what the current meta when it comes to PvP is... for the record, I DO have an a-rated FDL that has done it's fair bit of fighting in the Lave-area. But please tell me, who are these "best PvP-pilots"? Just so I know who to look out for. And what groups have you been fighting? Perhaps you have youtube-links to these epic battles so we mere mortals can learn from the pros? Point still stands, what I saw didn't impress at all, especially if you were on voice-coms.

Ok... you had no SCBs.... fine. Guess the few times I engaged you guys in wings were just after you had returned from re-stocking, that's at least plausible. Since I don't think I ever saw you in system, maybe you played at different times than I did. Perhaps the quality of CODE pilots you flew with were of a higher standard, because what I and others experienced were that when we engaged them (yes, often with ships of the "annoying-fly-variety), they slunk away as soon as they actually started taking fire... presumably to dock and repair in solo.

Meh, I don't really have the energy to argue about video games on message boards these days... I must say that you CODE guys managed to provide an injection of emotions to the game, even if mostly negative. However, exploiting game mechanisms the way you did is not cool.

 

[JosiahD]

My reaction to this thread is that most of the ill-feeling could be avoided if:

1. FD made it glaringly clear from the outset that Open is PVP by default. Ganking is an occupational hazard in Open but many people's expectations don't prepare them for that fact.
2. FD added a PVE option from the start menu. It's just not clear enough that open PVE can only be achieved by joining a group of consenting players such as Mobius, or even that such an option is available, or how to do it.

(Other stuff.......)

ED is a playpen for terrorists. That's the way it's built.

Except no, it's not. Open is principally a PvE environment, whether PvPers like it or not. That's not an opinion, it's fact, by design. PvP is permitted, but it's PvP in a PvE-based environment. Yes, getting attacked is a possibility, even a high probability in some places. Even DBOBE said way back that PvP was intended to be rare and meaningful. Given the number of systems it occurs in, it is probably rare (technically), but in cases such as the Hutton CG it is anything but meaningful for most (except for those perpetrating the blockade attempt I guess). But that's not the problem - the problem remains that the consequences for a major crime like 'murder' are all but nonexistent. Unprovoked attacks are to be expected in open, no argument there. Unprovoked attacks on clean CMDRs with little or no consequences (within supposedly policed space) for the attacker are not.