Solution for Ganking

I have a question for you, did you trade or mine ore there?
I was fighting Thargoids, joined three other pilots which I met for a first time and had fun. It was decent ship, but definitelly not usable in pvp (except fleeing, that's it). I left system and returned in much more suitable ship. This with latest ingame changes needs almost no time. Then I purposely wasted gankers time and had fun too. My pvp abilities are low, but if you do not intend stay in place and let your ship to be destroyed, its not problem. The same applies to any other activity, leave and return in right ship. Trading itself is not a problem, you still can have ship(s) with decent defenses. Minig operations are worse, but I would not do it in busy place (or do not use Open). For mining I like using small ships (core mining).

Keep in mind, you always have choices what to do. Problem is only when your mind is locked and is unwiling to change plans.
 
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Nice video but to be honest if it wasn't for the decent music i would have fallen asleep, they may be decent pilots in PvP but top 10? Get a grip, go watch some of the AX pilots.

Thargoids are still NPCs that follow a script and can still be defeated with equally formulaic tactics. There may be a prevailing 'meta' in PvP, but they, and the typical tactics that go along, aren't straight jackets. There is no comparison.

I
would mop the floor with most good AX pilots. And either of the pilots in the video I linked would mop the floor with me.

A wing of PvPers would prolly get chewed by the Goids, see its a different skill set, so to say anyone is a top 10 pilot is an exaggeration.

I wasn't exaggerating, at all. There was a time, not all that long ago, that I was pretty active and I got to fight, and talk to, a large portion of the other active PvPer. I was never much for tournaments or pitched battles post-Engineering, but I still got my fair share of organic PvP. One quickly learns who can fight, both individually, and part of a wing/organized group.

It's certainly a different skill set, but the thing about the skill set here is that it's relevant. AX pilots, who aren't also experienced PvPers, are neither likely to attack my CMDR, nor likely to prevail if they do. Gankers might.

If you fight gankers the way you would Thargoids, sooner or later you'll run into a ganker that wasn't born yesterday, and you'll get your ass handed to you.

Look at a video of a typical PvP match, which is basically a jousting match, and tell me again how unpredictable players are. The only variables are how early the opponents preturn and if they can land their plasma shots. PvP jousting matches are amongst the most boring content you can have in my opinion.

I don't think either of you have anywhere near the PvP experience in this game to have the faintest idea what you're talking about.

For the record, there is little jousting in most PvP, and there was essentially none in the video I linked. Two ships co-orbiting each other and launching plasma and/or ramming attacks at the perigee, while otherwise exchanging rail fire and using rocks as cover, might be mistaken for jousting, but that's not even close to what the motions look like from outside, or even in first person, if one is paying attention.

Completely agree which is why i always debunk the PvPers are better than PvEers rubbish.
I was one of the first Emperors in ESO, was i the best at PvP? No, Was i in the top 10 in 1vs1 fights? No, it was all down to having the time to put in and a really good team to work out ways of winning.

You can't debunk anything with which you have no experience while cresting that first peak on a Dunning-Kruger graph. Hell, your trying to debunk an assertion that was never made.

ESO and Elite: Dangerous are very different games, yet you talk as if they're equivalent. This is evidently giving you some serious misconceptions about everything from game mechanisms to player motivation.
 
Huge swaths of the galaxy are nearly devoid of CMDR, so applying a bonus to Open where there is minimal chance for an encounter doesn't make a ton of sense, especially if it's easy to switch modes the second someone does show up. Not to mention the possibility of playing Open in name only without significant reworking of the game.

If certain gameplay and network mechanisms were addressed I wouldn't be opposed to some kind of mode bias, but too large of a bonus will be a perverse incentive and will attract players that don't actually want to be there...something that Open already struggles with.
Yeah I think the fundamental issue that makes it difficult to move the status quo is menulogging can't really be prevented, without overhauls that I quite frankly don't trust Fdev to be able to pull off well. Just to give an example, if the game had been designed with PVE and PVP balance in mind, commodities could have had tagging that identifies which modes they originated from, if you menulog from PVP to PVE the tag gets overridden and you lose the bonus.

2. If there will be an open PvE mode, then first of all people will leave the single mode and all sorts of PGs like Mobius.
Well, yes that's the idea, it reduces fragmentation of the player base and removes the need for new players to actively have to search for the existence of PVP free environments beyond just playing an MMO in single player mode

There is no risk, Open players and gankers have repeatedly said its easy to avoid being blown up, so is the bonus one for wasted time
People comfortable with open quite frankly have no right to be judgey of people who need incentives to risk being in open, and only stand to gain.

In any case yes actually the bonus is for wasted time efficiency, both dealing with interdictions and having to reduce efficiency of many builds to avoid being a sitting duck.
 
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BTW we absolutely do play the game. :)

There will be a series of charity events on the 14th and 15th of Dec
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq0qdbIx0uk


Great opportunity to debunk the "PvPers are better pilots than PvEers myth". :)

Timetable:
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PvP wingfights can also be predictable, but only if you know everyone on both teams (how good they are, etc). And even then, people can learn, which means the next fight vs the same people might be different. :)

The last organized (4v4...correction 8v8) tournament I took part in (which was back in 2016, just before Engineers dropped), my team handily wiped the opposing team, with barely a ship lost, in both of the first two rounds...

We were disqualified on a technicality, but because it was an honest mistake on part of the organizer (a rule change hadn't made it out to us) we were allowed a rematch. In the rematch--which took place the same day with the same people in almost identical loadouts--we were completely annihilated, because we gave away far more of our tactics in our initial crushing victory (where we gave it our all), than we were able to learn about our opponents, and they countered us perfectly.

I hold that (actual) gankers* are low skilled players, they’re just going through the motions, getting their dopamine kick out of the rage not the combat, rarely ever being challenged in a fight because they choose to pick on those who can’t.

What makes someone an actual ganker if not conducting actual ganks?

Many of the most prolific gankers were expert PvPers first and never stopped maintaining or growing those skills.

In the end for most PvPers you’re just learning a routine/build the works for you.

I've PvPed in almost every ship in this game that doesn't cost Arx, and a variety of builds. While some may simply have rushed to the meta they were told exists, many PvPers have a breadth of experience and don't fall into any particular rut, except when the game forces their hand.

The game does funnel people toward certain loadouts if they want to compete where there are no other restrictions, but the idea that one can be a skilled PvPer across the very large spectrum of activities that constitutes PvP by over specializing strikes me as false.

I think the appeal of PvP, and why people are so passionate about it, is it almost always has a very steep learning curve instead of the gradual build up of difficulty employed by most (all?) games to make it accessible.

One of the big appeals to PvP in Elite: Dangerous and games like it is that the equipment/grid requirements don't outpace organic gameplay/experience requirements. This is less true post Engineering---and a huge swath of the PvP player base did not survive the initial Engineering implementation--but even that has now been expedited to the point that it's not terribly hard to get into something situationally competitive.

I've never considered PvP an end-game activity, nor some advanced subset of the game that one had to opt into after a certain point, or even felt that the learning curve was particularly steep, unless one was trying to summit a particularly difficult hill before one was ready.
When I first logged into this game, I played the tutorials (all of them, until I could kill that Big Mama anaconda with that laser/railgun sidewinder at the end of that tenth wave) before starting my CMDR, and within 45 minutes of that, I was fighting other CMDRs outside Freeport, learning as I went. The game has certainly changed to put more 'content' walls between the CMDR and the tools they need to be competitive, reducing it's accessibility to some degree, but I don't think avoiding PvP until one reaches some arbitrary threshold does one a favor. PvP isn't inaccessible, unless one makes it so.

I think the sheer spread of skill levels on can encounter and the fact that enough gankers are bad enough to allow the impression that they're all bad is pretty clear evidence that it's more accessible than you're implying here.

Although admitting that feels like it’s devaluing the effort in overcoming the steep curve in the first place. So we get the typical self-aggrandising, and putting down of others, we see everywhere there’s a PvP option.

That's not what's going on here.

There have been repeat assertions, mostly from people who have admitted to having marginal experience with PvP in this game, that ganking is somehow incompatible with, or a contraindication to, skill. This is a completely unfounded assertion, counter both to the experiences of anyone who has engaged in any significant degree of PvP in this game and to the idea that gankers can be the problem many appear to think they are.

It's like wartime propaganda about an enemy that simultaneously downplays their abilities while trying to portray them as some kind of existential threat. The reality is usually closer to the opposite. Fact of the matter is, there is no correlation between competency and the subjective righteousness of one's motives. They are completely separate spectra, and it's easy to find incompetent heroes and highly skilled monsters, or vice versa.
 
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To see the picture more accurately, it would be good for the pilots to start by telling (I hope for their honesty) what they are doing in the game now, or playing at all, or just speculating on the forum about the old days.
 
Completely agree which is why i always debunk the PvPers are better than PvEers rubbish...
From my own personal experience - there isn't a single NPC that I can't totally wipe the floor with.
From Thargoids, to wing missions against Elite Corvettes - if I'm using anything bigger than a Sidewinder...it's total overkill. No real challenge.

PvPers however - regularly send me to rebuy and leave me wondering what just happened!
 
But some people seem to enjoy playing the forum more than the game.

Shifting their arguments, trying to trip others up over language, despite this being an international forum, straw manning people who they feel are against them. All the usual.

Don’t expect people to play fair with you over this subject especially. It been contentious in every game I’ve played.

As and aside, there’s a nice “ignore” button for those who persistently argue in bad faith, if anyone needs it 😉
I see your point, but ignoring mans is not my method, just like in the main game I don't use a black sheet.

In view of the fact that in the open game of complete anarchy the game is kept only on PG and single mode as only these modes give to play it. Without these two modes the game would have completely died a long time ago.
 
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From my own personal experience - there isn't a single NPC that I can't totally wipe the floor with.
From Thargoids, to wing missions against Elite Corvettes - if I'm using anything bigger than a Sidewinder...it's total overkill. No real challenge.

PvPers however - regularly send me to rebuy and leave me wondering what just happened!
Sidewinder vs 2 Inters and a glaive, that i would love to see ;)

O7
 
BTW we absolutely do play the game.

There will be a series of charity events on the 14th and 15th of Dec
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq0qdbIx0uk


Great opportunity to debunk the "PvPers are better pilots than PvEers myth".

Timetable:
View attachment 410979

Spoiler tags would have been useful. Now there is no chance I'll be surprised by hostile CMDRs participating in that race as my CMDR meanders toward Colonia in his lightly armed jumpconda laden with exploration data, first footfalls, and exobio flasks. I can avoid having my CMDR act on any information he wouldn't have access to, but its not quite the same as genuinely being caught off-guard.

No experience? i have plenty of experience of PvP in ED, but thanks.

If I seem doubtful of your ability to assess what's going on in the video Iinked it's because you've repeatedly expressed a very narrow view of what constitutes PvP and have also conflated PvP and AX piloting (when you said "go watch some of the AX pilots") almost immediately prior to pointing out they are different skill sets.

I'm confused as to what subset of PvP you could be talking about where the AX pilots you're referring to would be a meaningful analog, or why you would make the suggestion you did if you didn't feel one could infer one's PvP prowess from their AX abilities. I sure can't infer someone's AX prowess from their PvP abilities. The overlap with PvP, in my modest experience with AX, is negligible, and I quickly learned that apply tactics that often work well in organic, or even pitched, PvP rarely translate into fighting Thargoids.

Sidewinder vs 2 Inters and a glaive, that i would love to see

I've tried soloing Interceptors with a Sidewinder, but I refuse to rely on synthesis, so I've always had to retreat. I never really felt my CMDR was at risk (relative to the marginal risk it's possible for any CMDR to be in) in AX combat, just that there was some combination that had to be figured out, if I didn't want it to degenerate into a battle of attrition.
 
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I don't think either of you have anywhere near the PvP experience in this game to have the faintest idea what you're talking about.

You found that out all by yourself? It is not exactly a secret that I don't do nor have any interest in PvP. And I still find the usual PvP videos and other content people post and stream so proudly on the interwebs very boring and unentertaining, thank you very much.

Edit: Sorry, wrong thread context. Apologies, the derailing happens in the other thread ;).
 
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I've never done it....but it does seem doable (with a bit of practice and alot of synthesis!)
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3s6pvANBcs

Well a Glaive would certainly complicate things as they can keep up with a coasting Sidewinder.

My lack of enthusiasm regarding AX combat--beyond the silly weapon/damage dichotomy, and the massive narrative wrapped around it that we have no real agency in--is that it's a specialized skill set that I have little interest in developing. I'm sure the same applies to those who take issue with PvP and ganking, but that can be opted out of to the same extent.

Edit: lost part of this reply and had to fix it.

You found that out all by yourself? It is not exactly a secret that I don't do nor have any interest in PvP.

So why put forward an assessment of what's going on in a PvP engagement?

And I still find the usual PvP videos and other content people post and stream so proudly on the interwebs very boring and unentertaining, thank you very much.

A lot of them are boring. Less boring if one has the experience to appreciate their content, but many of them will never be fun to watch.

That's subjective though, and utterly beyond the point. The only point I was making with the video is that there are gankers with skill. One doesn't need to find the video enjoyable to acknowledge that. Ganking doesn't put holes in the ganker's brain, or result in them being cursed with infirmity by the gods.

Als,o generally (this goes for all the elitist PvP gods in this thread), way to derail the thread from "ganking in sol" - which is clearly and undoubtly happening - to "we PvPers are the better players and own open". Thumbs up!

Pointing out that gankers may well not be inept, is not a derailment, and wouldn't even be a derailment in that other thread.

I'm also not making the elitist assertions you're accusing me of. I'm pointing out that it's a fallacy to correlate subjectively unappealing behavior with one's abilities as a combat pilot.

Pushing misinformation about gankers' spectrum of abilities, or overemphasizing the role equipment plays in a gank, doesn't help anyone. Whoever is reading this thread, for whatever purpose, deserves to have accurate information, so they can make whatever decision is best for their game...not to mention informed suggestions in the suggestions sub-forum.
 
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f I seem doubtful of your ability to assess what's going on in the video Iinked it's because you've repeatedly expressed a very narrow view of what constitutes PvP and have also conflated PvP and AX piloting (when you said "go watch some of the AX pilots") almost immediately prior to pointing out they are different skill sets.
I said the video was boring, endless jousting is not my idea of PvP, ive seen better scraps on hen nights.

O7
 
Create a module that changes the ship's signature to mimic an npc, giving the player a solid square instead of a hollow square on the radar. Gankers would have to scan your ship in order to see that "Cmdr" in the name.
It would not work.

There once was bug (long time ago), that once made some cmdrs appear as npcs, and many npcs appear as cmdrs, as mentioned bug only affected visuals on radar. It hardly saved anyone at time, because of few reasons:

Cmdrs still would had "cmdr" attached to them, well as in "history" tab, one can see who is in instance (cmdrs with "Now" means they are in same instance, even if not yet "visible"), and CTRL+B enables bandwith-o-meter, wich is another indicator whenever someone else is in instance, becasue it always "spikes up" whenever P2P does its thing.

Other way to easly diffrence apart npcs from cmdr is loadout itself, and very often, the ship name along its ID as well. Even nuiances of how one fly in supercruz, can easly give it away, even if some kind of "conceal" would be used, such as hide cmdr prefix to someone name, solid square instead hollow, but I doubt that would hide them from history tab, well as bandwith itself.
 
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