Some quick advice for an AX combat NOOB please!

GunnerBill

GunnerBill
I have minimal AX combat experience and that was right back at the beginning when you had to travel 300 ly to get it!

I'm planning to get involved this time around and have a large fleet of full G5 PVE or PVP meta-engineered ships to deploy... but NO AX or Guardian engineering, just the regular kind!
I suppose my standard PVE combat loadout would be a mix of fixed beams, gimbaled or fixed MC's and occasionally fixed plasmas with prismatic or bi-weave shields depending on the scenario.
I've read through a bunch of threads and have noted the following:
1. A hull tank may be the way forward.
2. Something about silent running and burning off caustic goo with high heat levels?
3. Human AX weapons only really good for the low end Thargoid enemies.
4. Need a boost speed above 500 m/s?
5. Human MRP's (are there another kind??) are no good.
6. Human engineered HRP's are good but what kind? I have multiple G5 deep plating HRP's but can easily do different.
7. Point defence is ineffective.
8. What else do I need... shut down neutraliser? I have no idea!!
9. I see cargo racks included in AX combat builds... er why??

Can anyone confirm or add to these basic requirements please?

I have all the combat ships through Vette, Anaconda, Python, FDL, Mamba, Challenger Chieftain, FGS and FAS but am thinking that:
1. A hull tanked Chieftain might be a good start loaded with fixed AX MC's. Perhaps a gunship.
2. If speed is needed then should I rule out my Corvette even though they could be massive hull tanks?

And finally - I don't really want to go grinding for Grauniad stuff unless I really have to!

Any/all advice appreciated!
 
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Nekozji

Nekozji
You may want to read up on the builds and info from the Anti Xeno Initiative 😸 https://wiki.antixenoinitiative.com/en/builds

I haven't done AX combat myself other than creating ships that can survive long enough to escape - but I've done a lot of that recently and have gotten a sense for the speed the bugs move at. Anecdotally, a boost of 400m/s will barely keep level with a thargoid, at 425m/s they start falling behind, and at 450+ they won't get a shot off if you're just running for it. 500 therefore sounds very sensible, but not absolutely required. I know the AXI have a Cutter build which can't make 500 no matter what you do.

Heatsinks will temporarily render thargoids unable to target you. I've been using them when on final approach to a landing pad or when trying to get out again so I don't get stuck with caustic damage until next dock. You also can use decontamination limpets to self-clean, although as with any repair limpet, it's hard to do in the thick of combat. Plus you're giving up 2 slots; one for the controller and one for the limpets. The AX pilots around bases do seem to be using limpets and may come to your aid if you linger.

And it popped up in another thread that guardian hull reinforcements carry an anti-caustic property that is making them punch way above their weight in terms of effective protection.

Edit dammit, ninja'd 😹
 

tolm

tolm
There are much more qualified folks than I to comment but - previously - I had the most success (1) in a Krait MkII and (2) in a wing if tackling non-Scouts.

From memory, I had about 600Mj BiWeave to “take the edge off” and then it was all Heavy Duty HRPs along with a couple of Guardian MRPs, since they’re a little more effective than human ones.

You can indeed overheat to burn off the goo and then fire a heat sink and use repair limpets to get some hull back.

Turret AX Multis are good against Scouts.

Gauss Cannon for Thargoid hearts.

I think my personal record for stress levels was making it to “safely” with 0% hull and 1 min left on life support before discovering that I couldn’t request docking because my sensors were destroyed then synthing some oxygen so I could reboot/repair and finally managing to dock …

I’ve currently rolled a FAS to try some Scout dogfighting which I hope will be fun but I suspect won’t cut it (with my skills) against anything bigger.
 

tolm

tolm
* EDITED TO CORRECT HEAT FIGURE *

For overheating the goo, I use:

  • Silent Running
  • Charge FSD until 180% - 250% heat (wait for message saying caustic removed will be shown)
  • Cancel FSD
  • Heatsink!!!!

Saves on ammo vs the “fire all the gauss” method but does require things to be a little quiet. But during the fight itself, getting a bit tasty with the Gauss shots can also do the trick.
 
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Nekozji

Nekozji
tolm said:
Charge FSD until 125% heat (message saying caustic removed will be shown)
Click to expand...

Only 125%? That's better than expected, I'd have burnt mine off if I knew it was so low, but I thought it was closer to 200%. (It only ate 25% of my hull over 5 jumps so nbd really. I have a lot of hull for a rescue ferry.)

But 125% will take ages to do any real damage, to the point it's not worth worrying over - although the heatsink is good if you have it.
 

vanFace

V
GunnerBill said:
I have all the combat ships through Vette, Anaconda, Python, FDL, Mamba, Challenger Chieftain, FGS and FAS but am thinking that:
1. A hull tanked Chieftain might be a good start loaded with fixed AX MC's. Perhaps a gunship.
2. If speed is needed then should I rule out my Corvette even though they could be massive hull tanks?

And finally - I don't really want to go grinding for Grauniad stuff unless I really have to!
Click to expand...
The Chieftain is basically the anti-interceptor meta. If you go for Vette, best thing is to do a shield tank with prismatics IMHO. Speeds below 380 might get you into trouble, so I'd invest in engineering.

However, I'm afraid I have bad news here: grinding guardian stuff is inevitable with the current weaponry, if you want to go for interceptors. You can do scouts all day with AX turret MCs, but that gets old very quick.
Perhaps it would be better to do the evacuation and/or trading war grind until there are other (and hopefully better) weapon options. If we start losing the war, I bet they will pop up ;) .
 

tolm

tolm
Nekozji said:
Only 125%? That's better than expected, I'd have burnt mine off if I knew it was so low, but I thought it was closer to 200%. (It only ate 25% of my hull over 5 jumps so nbd really. I have a lot of hull for a rescue ferry.)

But 125% will take ages to do any real damage, to the point it's not worth worrying over - although the heatsink is good if you have it.
Click to expand...
Hmmm … now I”m worried I’ve mis-remembered that … googles … yup, I‘m a moron it’s 180% minimum …

wiki.antixenoinitiative.com

Thargoid Special Attacks

Detailed explanation of Thargoid special attacks and abilities
wiki.antixenoinitiative.com wiki.antixenoinitiative.com
 

GunnerBill

GunnerBill
vanFace said:
The Chieftain is basically the anti-interceptor meta. If you go for Vette, best thing is to do a shield tank with prismatics IMHO. Speeds below 380 might get you into trouble, so I'd invest in engineering.

However, I'm afraid I have bad news here: grinding guardian stuff is inevitable with the current weaponry, if you want to go for interceptors. You can do scouts all day with AX turret MCs, but that gets old very quick.
Perhaps it would be better to do the evacuation and/or trading war grind until there are other (and hopefully better) weapon options. If we start losing the war, I bet they will pop up ;) .
Click to expand...
If I was to do just one grind.... Gauss cannon?

And to no one in particular... why would I need cargo racks, which I see in some recommended builds???
 

vanFace

V
GunnerBill said:
If I was to do just one grind.... Gauss cannon?

And to no one in particular... why would I need cargo racks, which I see in some recommended builds???
Click to expand...
Yes, gauss cannons is the way. Both sizes. You can forget the other things (well, perhaps FSD booster while you're at it already). Forget about guardian fighters, they look cool, but are actually useless against thargs as it currently stands.

You need cargo racks if you want to carry decontamination limpets. These come handy in shield tank builds, because you can't really use the silent running trick to heat up for decontamination (well, you can, but then your shield is gone). I often have the C4 corrosion resistant cargo rack with 16 limpets and a C3 limpet controller for decontamination in my Vette when doing combat. The rack also doubles for scooping tharg cargo that burns down regular ones.
 

DemiserofD

D
vanFace said:
Yes, gauss cannons is the way. Both sizes. You can forget the other things (well, perhaps FSD booster while you're at it already). Forget about guardian fighters, they look cool, but are actually useless against thargs as it currently stands.

You need cargo racks if you want to carry decontamination limpets. These come handy in shield tank builds, because you can't really use the silent running trick to heat up for decontamination (well, you can, but then your shield is gone). I often have the C4 corrosion resistant cargo rack with 16 limpets and a C3 limpet controller for decontamination in my Vette when doing combat. The rack also doubles for scooping tharg cargo that burns down regular ones.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go so far as to say totally useless. A guardian fighter under NPC control can solo-exert a basilisk, and can fully counteract the regeneration of a medusa.


It's basically a free hardpoint with its own distributor.
 

vanFace

V
DemiserofD said:
I wouldn't go so far as to say totally useless.
Click to expand...
I didn't say "totally". However, as soon as you are out of the single-interceptor scenario, the low hull values of fighters make them go out quickly. It is not worth the guardian grind attached to it IMHO, especially not for a noob.
 

DemiserofD

D
vanFace said:
I didn't say "totally". However, as soon as you are out of the single-interceptor scenario, the low hull values of fighters make them go out quickly. It is not worth the guardian grind attached to it IMHO, especially not for a noob.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I think they're probably MOST useful for a noob. They can solo-exert, they can solo scouts, they add way more DPS to someone who's inaccurate...all great things!

They do die regularly, but if you have a c6 bay, you can redeploy them almost instantly and they'll last longer than the rest of your ammo easily. I just got done with a medium AXCZ and still had 4 left, iirc. Most of the time I just left them on hunter-seeker and let them kill off scouts in the background while I killed the interceptor. Plus they have voiced dialogue which makes the area feel more lively!
 

molgrips

M
A bit more advice as I'm dipping my toe in here. I'm almost combat deadly, which I know isn't amazing but I've done a lot of CZs for BGS so I know my way around PvE. But things are quite different for Thargoids as it's not just about manoeuvring to land shots, it's about knowing what's coming next.

I've read the AXI wiki cover to cover multiple times but I think you do need to drop in on some interceptors and give it a go, whilst being prepared to boost out or high wake. The guides say stuff like 'shoot the interceptor until the heart is exerted' but you need to get a feel for how to do it - these things are big, so you can do it from a distance, and they fly differently. You will need to learn the sights and sounds and what they mean for you. I am inherently very cautions and I get anxious when I'm in peril in the game but you'll need to be mentally prepared to get minced multiple times if you can't flee in time. Mentally, I hate this but I've got plenty of money for rebuys so it's no big deal :). You don't need a META engineered ship just to get in there and see how it goes. And there's not one single META I don't think as it can depend on how you fly and your instincts, tactics and responses.

TLDR; drop in, have a go, learn, run away/die, experiment, be prepared to have your handed to you a lot.
 

molgrips

M
Plus they have voiced dialogue which makes the area feel more lively!
Click to expand...
Lol... yeah.. "We're looking at multiple hostile targets" er yes mate this is a combat zone in the middle of a war of course there are multiple hostiles THAT'S WHY WE ARE HERE! Pillock. He can shoot, but he's not the brightest.
 

ChaseBears

ChaseBears
The human AX fighter never seems to actually fire its guns so its hard to judge if its any good. Might be a Horizons issue.
 
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