Space Engineers - "Open" Changes Everything

[Old Duck]

A Tale Of Two Modes

1. Multiplayer Survival - Kusto may be gone, but there are still threats in the galaxy. I encountered a hostile player at long range in orbit of the moon (which apparently is the Deciat of Space Engineers). He was flying a butt-ugly but highly functional ship. Because of the range, I don't know what kind of damage I dealt him, but he definitely landed some shots on me. Nothing serious mind you - no critical systems were destroyed, and the hull maintained integrity. I returned to base to patch up, and while my ship is smaller than many cruisers and battleships I've encountered, it's big enough to still be a bit tedious to repair the entire thing by hand. I added this welder to my station, but this is also a bit tedious. So my next project is to prototype an automated repair station, using the very limited PCU that I have left. I may have to completely decommission my earth base to do this, but that's okay, I still have my RV on earth.

Spoiler

2. Single Player Creative - Take two on bringing my starship down to earth. This time the chute deployed properly, but I discovered I needed extra vertical thrusters due to how heavy this beast is. Instead of adding landing gear, which I don't like (SE needs to make retractable gear), I just tack on some landing struts on ships that are normally space-based. This costs way less PCU and materials and is very quick to build. The ship is a bit high off the ground when landed because apparently the hitbox on turrets is wider than the 3D model, which is kinda annoying. Still, I'll be able to land the ship on a planet if I ever need to, though I won't be doing much flying in gravity since seven vertical hydrogen thrusters will burn through my fuel pretty quickly.

Spoiler

 

[Darkfyre99]

One of the nice things about work is that it isn't so mentally demanding that it leaves me no time to think about other things. So I had plenty of time to ponder the problem I'll be facing in the future:

1) The nature of multi-player demands that I need to stay within ten minutes of a full life support suite. That is: a cryo-pod, a steady supply of power, and a source of oxygen. This is easy to achieve on any planet with an atmosphere that has traces of oxygen.

2) A life support suite is heavy: at minimum, an additional 1700 kilograms, plus the weight of any necessary life support connections.

3) Fuel consumed from lifting a ship into orbit is fuel that isn’t available for other operations in space. And, of course, adding fuel (tanks) to a ship increases its mass, so it burns even more fuel. The tyranny of the rocket equation isn’t as severe as in Kerbal Space Program, let alone real life, but it is present none-the-less.

My solution? Probes!

Not only do they allow me to satay safely planetbound, in a comfortable environment to boot, but they’re lightweight,which reduces fuel consumption.

There’s just one teeny, tiny problem: antennas are essentially a giant “Dinner Is Served, boys!” sign, in giant neon letters, pointing right at me and my stuff.

They’re also somewhat power hungry, but that’s a minor issue, relatively speaking.

The solution to the “Here I Am” Problem are laser antennas, but they come with their own problems:

• They’re strictly line of sight, and must “lock on” to another laser antenna to function: neither of which is ideal when searching an asteroid field
• The prove’s body can also block line of sight
• They’re extremely power hungry
• They’re much more massive
• They’re more expensive
  

The solution, of course, is a communications relay system:

• starting at my “hidden base” -> short-ranged radio link to ground-based relay (can also travel there directly)
• Ground-based relay -> laser link to comm satellite
• Comm satellite -> long-range radio link to the probe

The most dangerous part for me will be the short-ranged radio link, but that risk will be minimized due to being short ranged... and I can travel there directly if I want to be extra stealthy. The most vulnerable part of this whole thing will be the long-ranged radio link... which leaves both probe and comm satellite open to detection by anyone passing nearby.

The risk can be mitigated, though, by minimizing the time they are broadcasting. I only need to keep comms open when I’m controlling the probe, after all, so when not in use, I can turn both antennas off.

Turning the probe on again is another matter entirely. Thankfully, during the time span betweeen when I started this post, and as I write this, a potential solution occurred to me: timer blocks. If both long-ranged antennas are synchronized to turn on at the same time, I can use that brief window to decide stop the timers, do the task that needs to be done, and then reset the clock. Both antennas need to be on synchronized timers, because server issues are bound to cause desync between the online clock and real life.

This whole complicated plan was for the future, though, but by the time I had an opportunity to log in last night, the server was full. I spent the time waiting for a slot to open creating a prototype:

Spoiler: Prospecting Probe Prototype

You can see the blueprint for my base’s foundation below it. The red blocks are where air vents need to be installed when I start working on the rest of the base.

Soeaking of foundations, a slot opened up right before a server reboot. I had just enough time (about half an hour) to finish the foundation.

Spoiler: Foundation Finished

Next up... reconfiguring the “boring construction vehicle” to be a pure welder. I may also prototype a Mark II, using what I learned from the Mk I in action to make it less prone to getting stuck...

 

[Old Duck]

^ I hear what you are saying about probes. I was going to send a probe down to you, but these same hassles made me decide to just come down in my little shuttle. The big difference is that this was just for a quick visit rather than long-term exploration. I can see how probes would be useful in your situation. Good luck!

 

[Darkfyre99]

^ I hear what you are saying about probes. I was going to send a probe down to you, but these same hassles made me decide to just come down in my little shuttle. The big difference is that this was just for a quick visit rather than long-term exploration. I can see how probes would be useful in your situation. Good luck!

The most useful aspect of the probes is going to be that it lets me do other things while waiting for it to arrive at an asteroid, thus not wasting consumable resources, including play-time, just moving from point A to point B. That's why there's a landing gear sticking out from the front. I figure giving it a gentle push in the direction of an asteroid, and let it latch on when it reaches its destination. I’ll need to consider the possibility of missing, of course, but that can be done with a timer block as well.

In other news, I had the house all to myself last night, so I was able to play uninterrupted for a glorious two hours. Which was just enough time to finish my living quarters. The converted BCV wasn't as useful as I'd hoped as a construction aide, though. Between the vaulted ceilings I prefer, and the welder's range, it kept getting stuck inside the room it was working on, so I used it as a portable cargo container instead. I then rendered it down for spare parts. Once again, I learned from my mistakes, so the next base I prototype in creative will have the limitations of construction vehicles in mind.

Here's a brief tour of my base:

Spoiler: Atrium

First up is the atrium, which is the heart of my tiny "hidden base." At the center is the airlock, which uses a sensor and timer blocks to handle opening, closing, and pressurizing/depressurizing the doors. Since this base is on a world with low oxygen levels, the base's O2 tank is always full, so there's a brief puff of escaping air whenever it opens. To the left is the H2/O2 generator, where I keep additional bottles of oxygen and hydrogen for extended EVAs... not that I'm doing extended EVAs at this time.

I was experimenting with slightly-tinted lights, which explains the slightly greenish tint to it. I don't particularly like this color, so I'll change it when I get a chance.

Spoiler: Medbay

The medical bay, the other truly functional room. It contains:

• Two cryopods, one for me, one for a guest.
• A medical room, to recover health and energy faster.
• A purely decorative MRI, just because.

Spoiler: Dining Hall

Purely decorative. It just occured to me that I should see if the remaining decorative packs I just bought has a proper table and chairs/benches. I’ve been using two desks facing each other as a substitute.

Spoiler: Bedroom with attached Bathroom

The other purely decorative room.

Spoiler: View From Cryopod

This is the view when I log in. Which is a lot better than the dark cavern... or the underside of surface vegetation, thanks to the x-ray glitch.

Next on my plans... prototyping, prototyping, prototyping...[/spoiler]

edited to fix a spoiler tag issue

 

[Old Duck]

Since this base is on a world with low oxygen levels, the base's O2 tank is always full, so there's a brief puff of escaping air whenever it opens. To the left is the H2/O2 generator, where I keep additional bottles of oxygen and hydrogen for extended EVAs... not that I'm doing extended EVAs at this time.

You say it's a low oxygen world. I wonder if you could use a vent on the surface to recharge your O2 tanks over time. I do this whenever I land on earth in a starship - I just open the door and set the vent to depressurize, which will draw in air from outside until the O2 tank is full.

Speaking of bases, I've decided to decommission my base so I can free up resources for my space station. I skydived down so I can save some valuable resources in a "treasure chest" or two down on the surface before I delete everything. I'll still have my atmospheric "RV" ship, which has everything I need to explore the planet and "camp out" when offline. I'm just waiting for the sun to come up so I can see what I'm doing.

ps - I guess I need to return for another visit, you've been busy!

 

[Darkfyre99]

You say it's a low oxygen world. I wonder if you could use a vent on the surface to recharge your O2 tanks over time. I do this whenever I land on earth in a starship - I just open the door and set the vent to depressurize, which will draw in air from outside until the O2 tank is full.

Yep! All small grid vehicles I design have a vent, set to deoxygenate, attached in an out of the way location that will keep the cockpit oxygenated. It will also fill up the oxygen tank of any grid its attached to. Since it’s hanger is depressurized, the Dragonfly’s currently supplying all the oxygen I need at the moment, as well as topping off the base’s oxygen tank.

I just realized that I actually have some work to do on my facade, before I can start doing any serious prototyping. The idea, after all, is that my hidden base is simply one of several mines I’m operating in the area. That means actually building them more than one of them. Thankfully, I currently have an abundance of iron to build them with.

ps - I guess I need to return for another visit, you've been busy!

I’m hoping ( ) to log in for a while tonight, sometime during my usual evening window (00:00 to 02:00 UST). Other planned windows are Saturday and Sunday from 11:00 to 13:00 UST, to take advantage of the quiet before the rest of the house wakes up. Any other times over the weekend is me seizing any opportunity I can grab to play.

 

[Old Duck]

Despite being a "Minecraft In Space" game, I have found Space Engineers incredibly immersive. It hit me today as I walked through my earth base one last time before decommissioning it. It brought back lots of memories, from the initial small cavern I carved out after my escape pod landed, to my initial camp set up in the corner of that cave, to the building of a reinforced heavily armored bunker, to the addition of a rocket silo and all the exploration adventures launched from that location. I reminded me of moving IRL. Here's a picture of the base after I removed all the subgrids. It kinda reminded me of abandoned military bases you can find even now.

Spoiler

After deleting the base, I was left with what almost looks like a natural cave. I hand-cut everything to fit my base, and since I was only cutting enough to make space for the inside sections of the blocks, and most of this was done on the fly (I only used a projector for the silo), it's all very rough. Funny thing is that SE doesn't have natural caves, but if someone comes across this cavern, they'll have the next best thing to go spelunking in!

Spoiler

I left myself a treasure chest of all the best materials and components, things that would be hard to find / fabricate using my survival kit if for some reason I need them. The odds of needing to restart on earth are very low - I would have to lose two starships and my space station, which just shouldn't happen (I don't keep these eggs in one basket). Still, I like having a backup plan, just in case.

Spoiler

I now have 4000 PCU to use towards my station, torpedoes, drones, etc.

 

[Old Duck]

Went on a long-distance trip, so I linked my two ships together and played a game of leap-frog by using one FSD and then the next, doubling my range. This also gave me some flexibility once I arrived at my destination, having both a combat ship and a mining ship at my disposal.

 

[Darkfyre99]

<<< That feeling you get when you realize that you forgot to take pictures...


At any rate, last night I started building the first of my mining stations on the surface of the planet. There were hardly anyone on, strangely enough, but there was some speculation in chat that the rumors of a server wipe had put a lot of people off. The lag was worse than normal as well... which turned out to be a bad thing when you're flying a fully loaded transport nap of the earth. A bad lag spike at the wrong time, and I crashed the poor thing. Thankfully, I was bringing a load of stone, and some silver ore, back to base at the time, so I didn't lose any valuable components, but it did quite a number on the Dragonfly itself. I managed to piece together enough working engines to limp it back home.

This morning, @Old Duck visited my base, and he was kind enough to give me a tour of his new ship. It's a beauty, as you can see in the post above. I also started a redesign of the Dragonfly itself, plus I successfully identified the missing piece of conveyor tubing that was interfering with smooth operations at my base. I also tweaked my airlock design, because I discovered that if you go through it too fast, it's possible for it to get stuck with both doors open. That's what I get for trying to make things too compact. This should no longer be a problem.

 

[Old Duck]

The lag was worse than normal as well...

One thing I'm noticing is that Space Engineers is very sensitive to packet loss and jitter. My internet varies based on time of day, and certain busy times of day I can still use web and even watch videos, but I can't play SE due to random packet loss and delays. Other games I play are a bit more forgiving in this regard. I think they use predictive algorithms to make up for lost packets, where SE doesn't appear to do this. I left the game just now because I was starting to get this jitter-induced lag. I can walk and weld with a little lag, but I don't like flying with lag.

 

[Darkfyre99]

One thing I'm noticing is that Space Engineers is very sensitive to packet loss and jitter. My internet varies based on time of day, and certain busy times of day I can still use web and even watch videos, but I can't play SE due to random packet loss and delays. Other games I play are a bit more forgiving in this regard. I think they use predictive algorithms to make up for lost packets, where SE doesn't appear to do this. I left the game just now because I was starting to get this jitter-induced lag. I can walk and weld with a little lag, but I don't like flying with lag.

I was on briefly after popping lunch into the oven, the game was still a bit jittery. I had just enough time to complete the Dragonfly redesign. Part of the redesign was adding a projector to it, so that I can project a blueprint, making repairs easier in the future.

 

[Old Duck]

Giving a new player a lift to an earth station.

In other news, I discovered that the server fakes the existence of player constructions while we are away from them. If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is around, does it make a sound? Does a drill running on a slow piston continue to drill when nobody is around? Apparently not. The game tracts things like refining ores, assembling parts, charging and depleting batteries, etc. but anything that is "physical" in nature (like a drill) apparently stops when there are no players around. This means no drilling while offline. It also makes me think that when a ship despawns, it may keep its velocity but not actually move. This explains why when I dropped some beacons to earth during Christmas, they never reached the ground, despite being in the pull of gravity. They exited the render distance, despawning and thus no longer moved in real space. However, the beacons remained active in the location where they last were. AFAIK this is a server-only issue to help with performance. Of course this now makes me wonder how automated drones are affected. I'll have to perform some experiments.

 

[Darkfyre99]

While waiting for a pre-supper opening on the server this afternoon, I took the opportunity to prototype a wheeled surface transport, since I was moving a lot of steel plates from point A to point B.

Behold! The Ant Surface Transport

Spoiler: the Ant

Weighing in at 7.1 tons, it can handle about over five times its own weight in cargo without breaking a sweat. Like the Dragonfly, it also carries a projector for easier repairs.

Since I'm not quite at the point of "3D Printing" small ships yet (I'm waiting to establish a permanent base in space), I whipped up this little contraption to aid me in building my small grid vehicles. While working on assembling the Ant, I got to listen in on @Old Duck as he helped move another player's ship.

Spoiler: Workstation

I'm currently waiting for another opening on the server, in the vague hopes of finishing up my first mining station before bed. I've spent the time prototyping my future small space ship.

Behold! The Hummingbird Space Surveyor

Spoiler: Hummingbird

Weighing in at 12.5 tons, carefully managing my thrust will consume one of the three small hydrogen tanks it carries, leaving plenty of fuel for searching nearby asteroids. It carries a cryo-pod, an oxygen tank that will provide oxygen for over a week, and by shutting down most of its systems, the onboard battery should last that long as well... though the solar panels are there for insurance. It also has a parachute for the return journey, as well as two atmo thrusters that will hopefully allow it to return to base under its own power. A projector is included free of charge.

I'd originally planned on using probes for this purpose, but early tests proved to be too unwieldy... if I wanted to stay stealthy, that is.

Looks like I won't be logging in tonight... but tomorrow morning is another day.

 

[Old Duck]

Hey @Darkfyre99, how would you like to help with my science experiments?

 

[Darkfyre99]

Hey @Darkfyre99, how would you like to help with my science experiments?

Why sure, I'd love to.

<<< Replies, ironically, after having done so.

Thankfully, I remembered to take some pictures this time.

edit: I'll post my point of view after you've finished with yours.

 

[Darkfyre99]

The day started well... for a while. I got up a little earlier than usual, and as luck would have it, the rest of the household decided to sleep in. I had an actual, honest to goodness weekend for a change, and nowhere to go. So I spent some quality time working on the next phase of my facade, turning my silver mine from a hole in the ground, to a fully functional mine. Sadly, while the morning started well, a series of crashes on the server rendered my last hour of work null and void.

In that time, though, I'd managed to up my efficiency with the projector block.

Spoiler: Remote Control Added

I've known intellectually that the advanced rotor allows you to add a small grid head. I only learned recently, thanks to @Old Duck, that you could do the same with hinge blocks. So rather than installing a massive antenna to my mining platform, with a massive remote control block, I got away with this (relatively) tiny bit of electronics instead.

Spoiler: Lining things up for excavation... with the power of remote control!

Fun fact... if you have a radio link, you can actually add blocks from other ships, bases, and stations to a vehicle's controls. For example, I could put an "open hanger door" button to my ships, and it would open. And with a remote control installed, you can even control them remotely. Which is what I've done with the projector block. The antenna's only set to 50 meters, but that's all I need for what I'm doing.

When I had a chance to log in while waiting for lunch to cook, I found out, much to my dismay, exactly how much work I'd lost this morning. I wasn't looking forward to moving both of my vehicles to my Silver Mine, separately, again, then a solution occurred to me.

Spoiler: Piggyback

Things weren't looking very stable on the server at the time, so after delivering my vehicles, I "Ironmanned" back to base, hopped into a cryopod, and logged out. I then spent what remained of my short window sketching out a prototype of the work I'd been doing organically that morning.

When next I had an opportunity log in this afternoon, while waiting for my sister to know if she'd be called into work that evening (both her and her husband are nurses), I projected my prototype unloading platform, and used the Dragonfly to clear enough stone for me to work on it. Once that was done, I built the bare minimum necessary to unload my machine. With that accomplished, I could then clear away the valuable silver ore, while expanding its unloading platform.

Spoiler: Silver Mine

It was at this time I was contacted by a certain aged mallard about an opportunity to participate in an experiment... FOR SCIENCE!!!!

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ljFaKRTrI&ab_channel=OTG


To be continued...

 

[Old Duck]

edit: I'll post my point of view after you've finished with yours.

I'm feeling somewhat terse today, so here's my POV:

That's you!

 

[Darkfyre99]

I'm feeling somewhat terse today, so here's my POV:

LOL.

I’m at work, so I have time to be verbose while on break.

I was at my main base, getting a last batch of steel plates and other parts assembled to finish my silver mine, when I got the call from @Old Duck. He was experimenting with remote probes, a concept that I'd looked into recently. Among other things, he wanted to know how visible things were. He’d originally tried to do this over the Earthlike planet, and bad actors had quickly honed in on his signals. He was hoping that the alien planet wasn’t nearly as popular, due to its inhospitable reputation.

I was still waiting on word from my sister, so I didn't know how long I'd be able to observe his experiment from the ground. Thankfully, the deadline came and went, so I didn't have to worry about dealing with my four year old niece until her dad could pick her up. This turned out to be a good thing.

Once the plates had finished assembling, I loaded up the Ant and I returned to the iron mine, providing my observations along the way. Once there, I docked it at what I usually think of as the loading port. It's at this point that a temporary convenience decided to bite me in the proverbial behind.

At the bottom of the shaft, I’d set up a sorter that would send ore up to the Ant, along with ingots refined from raw stone that the attached the basic refinery would process. Another sorter was set up to drain parts loaded on the Ant, no send them below to the connector, saving me time as I built the lower structure. Unfortunately, the Dragonfly was attached to said connector, so many of the parts ended up in it. Heavy, heavy parts, that I didn’t realize I had.

Spoiler: To the Dragonfly!

And so I chased after the first of Old Duck’s probes, in a mining ship that was ill suited for this purpose, even if it was unloaded. It should’ve had enough power for 40 minutes of operation, but the extra weight was eating up that time precipitously.

Soon enough, I found his first probe, serenely parachuting down in a rare clear sky. I followed it down, blissfully unaware of my looming power supply issues. Fortunately for me, Old Duck was already delivering a solution to my power woes.

Spoiler: Why, hello there!

After conducting some remote control tests on his probe and my nearby Dragonfly, a dust storm overtook the test site. He kindly allowed me to salvage the probe, and use the attached nuclear reactor to recharge my Dragonfly. It was at this point, when I went to load the salvaged parts, that I noticed the extra weight.

The lone reactor wasn’t enough to move the Dragonfly, even with most systems turned off. I suppose I could’ve shed weight until it it could move, but I didn’t want to leave behind all those tasty parts. Plus there was a second probe 20+ km away, which also had a reactor. I had a mostly full hydrogen bottle, I decided to “Iron Man” over and salvage that probe as well..

In very rugged terrain.

During a sandstorm, with almost no visibility.

Spoiler: Stormy Weather

I smacked into a cliff face at 400 km/h. There were no survivors. Thankfully, I had remembered to leave a bookmark, so recovering the Dragonfly wasn’t a problem. I’d also set the the battery to recharge from the first reactor, just in case. After respawning, I grabbed two hydrogen bottles, and set off once again on my salvage and recovery mission.

The weather cleared briefly as I went to salvage probe #2. But as I approached my Dragonfly, a thick fog rolled in. Visibility is frequently limited on the Alien Planet, which is one reason why I chose to start there. By the time I’d installed the second reactor, visibility was down to almost nil.

Spoiler: Typical Weather on the Alien World

It was a very tense trip back to the Silvermine. I was traveling low and slow, just in case I lost battery power on the way back, and the twin reactors weren’t sufficient to keep me aloft. Thankfully, they proved to be sufficient, but only just.

Once I arrived at my Silver Mine, I installed the Cryopod, whose parts were in the Dragonfly, attached an atmospheric oxygen extractor to it, and ended up calling it a day.

 

[Old Duck]

and the twin reactors weren’t sufficient to keep me aloft. Thankfully, they proved to be sufficient, but only just.

Small reactors definitely do not replace batteries, but they will reduce the drain and increase the time, and they'll slowly recharge your batteries as you are doing other things. Remember back when I used to leave windmill campsites all over earth to recharge my jet? Dual reactors allowed me to forgo all that. Just be careful of the HUD, as it seems to lie when reactors and batteries are running in parallel. I got bit by this once, so you'll have to occasionally check your battery level using the K menu. I guess this is a bug. (BTW, this is why I miss scripting, because I used to measure and report these things directly using LCDs).

ps - I recommend turning your reactors off when parked for a long time at your connector. SE is supposed to be smart and not use the reactor if other power sources are available, but until you get a steady source of uranium, no sense taking any chances. You may even want to keep the reactors off for day-to-day short-range flights and keep them as a backup.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Last night, I returned from work late, so I didn’t get much done online. I did spend a little time prototyping as time permitted. I have to admit that the need to consider the effects of multi-player is making designing things a lot more interesting.

First up is my Dragonfly’s final evolution, into the scout/exploration role I’d originally envisioned. It includes a reactor for a stealthy backup, safely ensconced between the battery and the cryo-pod tail. In a fun bit of serendipity, the small cargo container, which I’d long considered practically useless, has just enough room to store the parts of a solar panel. They’re not connected to the conveyor system, so I don’t have to worry about them going anywhere by accident.

Spoiler: Dragonfly... Scout Mode

Next up is my remote mining vehicle (wheeled). Able to mine nearly 30 tons of ore before it needed to be unloaded, I was going to build one at each of my mines... until I remembered that there’s a five drill limit on the server. Which is a pity, because the drill is exactly the right height to operate on a level floor. Thankfully I hadn’t gotten much farther than its layout. Relabeling devices and setting up controls take far more time than roughing it out like this.

Spoiler: Remote Mining Vehicle (w)

This led to plan B, a flying remote mining vehicle. It can only mine 12 tons at a time, and it’s power hungry, but it can fly itself to whatever mine I plan on working... doing the math just now, I think add an additional nine-tons of ore capacity, without adding a second large battery pack. I will need to add four small batteries, though.

Spoiler: WIP Remote Mining Vehicle (f)

I have to admit that the projector block not only makes repairs easier, but it also makes repurposing an existing ship a breeze. No fiddling with toolbars or struggling to place a block just right. No worries about severing the wrong connection. No redoing your groups or controls. Just grind and weld.

Granted, I had to do this once already, but that was in creative, so making these changes was a lot faster.

Spoiler: Dragonfly Remodel in Progress