Space Scum

[Renegade Roach]

It wasn't griefing and it was not non-consensual either. By entering open you consent to pvp. That does not mean we have to like people who gank newbies in Sidewinders, or who kill traders with no attempt to pirate cargo, but people need to wind their necks in a bit.

OP, can understand you feeling put off but perhaps just relocate to a slightly less busy system (if you're somewhere well frequented). Playing in open and having to deal with this sort of thing will actually make you a better pilot in the long run. Going to solo might seem safer, but you won't learn the survival skills necessary. If you then come back to open at a later date in a much more expensive ship and get promptly murdered it will suck even more. Death is very easy to avoid once you know a little. For instance, knowing that masslock does not apply to hyperspace jumps will save you many many times.

 

[Max Torps]

It wasn't griefing and it was not non-consensual either. By entering open you consent to pvp. That does not mean we have to like people who gank newbies in Sidewinders, or who kill traders with no attempt to pirate cargo, but people need to wind their necks in a bit.

Just this really.

 

[Snakebite]

I only started playing about 4 days ago.
Game really started to pick up once I earned enough creds to buy a Viper and upgrade the Frameshift drive so I could explore some more of the galaxy.
Was having a great day today, even ranked up to Cadet in the Federation.

And then I get interdicted by a CMDR piloted Vulture.

Now I fly clean, pay of my fines, hell I don't even accept missions from bulletin if they look shady. So I have no bounty and no cargo when I'm interdicted.

Vulture doesn't seem to care and destroys me in seconds, forcing me to take a loan to re-buy my Viper since I had recently upgraded a component but would've been back above rebuy costs after completing the mission I was on.

Needless to say it left an awful taste in my mouth, so I doubt I'll be returning to open play anytime soon.
Griefers (or whatever other fun name we're going to call them instead) are a blight on the stars.

OP, join the Edge Syndicate, we look out for guys like you and go after guys like him... You can even place a bounty on him if you want and one of our registered bounty hunters will take him on.

 

[kingchub]

For instance, knowing that masslock does not apply to hyperspace jumps will save you many many times.

I did not know that. I'll give +1 when I get to my computer

 

[777Driver]

That is not what I said and you know it, thank you for the pointless rhetorical question.
"Permission" is warranted in my opinion when under the circumstances nothing indicates the player wants to fight you or others at the very moment. On the other hand I never chat before opening fire when:
1) Pirating;
2) In CZs as they are a kind of PvP areas and meant for fight;
2) The other guy is already engaged in a fight and I can reasonably assume he triggered it.

In other cases yes I ask players if they want to PvP . Apparently you don't agree and might prefer to impose you game style (ie. attacking for no apparent reason) to others. Then don't be surprised if they call it griefing.

Mate, if someone is flying a 'Combat' ship, it's safe to assume they expect Combat (for me at least). OP was not cruising around in a little hauler. Anyway, this discussion is just going around in circles, I'm not asking anyone for permission before engaging, I keep a simple rule, are they in a ship capable of defending themselves or running? If so they are fair game.

90% of my game time is trading and exploring, but if I want to engage ships (NPC or CMDR's) then it's a valid form of gameplay. Only issue I see is the penalties received, attacking any clean ship should make you a criminal in that system, no bribing security when you land at the nearest port.

 

[Knot2clever]

Sorry but joining Mobius will not work, as he'll still get griefed by NPC's.

 

[Nikonthenet]

Sorry this happened to you OP, its a dangerous game and while unfortunate, what happened to you is part of the Open game(tho hopefully the space scum will have greater penalty in future). Solo and Group offer you safer terrain, but stuck with it and you'll soon see your setback as less significant.

If, on the other hand, I bought myself a Vulture, loaded it with shield boosters and went on a ramming spree because I like seeing other CMDRs explode, or went out interdicting and killing random people just because I fancy myself as CMDR Bloadsoaked McMurderfiend... you get the idea. Not in the spirit of the game.

There are, of course, many people who don't give two hoots about the spirit of anything. ^^

With respect JS, I don't think you quite realise the true nature of ED and therefore the spirit. Sure ramming is just stupid, but psychotic murder is part of the game and to tell new players otherwise is just to mislead them. Heres a quote to clarify:

Griefing:

So, we've said we don't mind bad guys. In fact, we go further; we have bad guy gameplay options (piracy, smuggling etc.) By default, this includes psychopathic behaviour - randomly attacking other player "because you can".

So there you have it. Open mode is designed to be "because you can" random psychopathic murder. Solo and Group cater for the times players don't want that and every play type gets what they want. Certainly I hope criminals have greater penalties in the future tho.

 

[vizvayu]

What I dont get in these Discussions:
So He dosent CARE what you think is griefing. AT ALL. He just thinks that was a bad experience. And i can totally understand him there.

Could you "THIS IS NO GRIEFING" dumb* get that in your head: nobody is interest in what it is called. We despise the action.
NOT the Name its given!

This is the best post of the thread and it, as usually, gets mostly ignored.
I agree with Cmdr. Loetmichel, and IMO regardless of the name it's given and if the game mechanics allow it or not, it's a despicable action and should be condemned both inside and outside any game.
The fact that the aggressor attacked a weaker ship which had no bounty or cargo at all, nor any chance of winning the combat means to me one two things: 1) The attacker wasn't smart enough to realize that there was a real person flying that ship, or 2) he felt satisfaction with the defender's misery. And IMO any person who feels joy because of another person's suffering is clinically insane. As simple as that. And I'll repeat just in case: I don't care at all on how you name this action, nor if it is allowed by the actual game mechanics or not. This is a purely ethic matter.

 

[Renegade Roach]

We have npc stations and police who will kill you for parking infractions and loitering and people talk about 'the spirit of the game' and some imagined chivalric code which Elite players are meant to conform to. Funny stuff.

- - - Updated - - -

This is the best post of the thread and it, as usually, gets mostly ignored.
I agree with Cmdr. Loetmichel, and IMO regardless of the name it's given and if the game mechanics allow it or not, it's a despicable action and should be condemned both inside and outside any game.
The fact that the aggressor attacked a weaker ship which had no bounty or cargo at all, nor any chance of winning the combat means to me one two things: 1) The attacker wasn't smart enough to realize that there was a real person flying that ship, or 2) he felt satisfaction with the defender's misery. And IMO any person who feels joy because of another person's suffering is clinically insane. As simple as that. And I'll repeat just in case: I don't care at all on how you name this action, nor if it is allowed by the actual game mechanics or not. This is a purely ethic matter.

No, really. Lets not bring ethics into this, please. Ethics relates to serious stuff, like , murder, genocide... things which have horrific consequences in the real world. Playing a game, entirely within the rules of said game, cannot in any circumstances be considered unethical by anybody clinically sane.

 

[Nikonthenet]

This is the best post of the thread and it, as usually, gets mostly ignored.
I agree with Cmdr. Loetmichel, and IMO regardless of the name it's given and if the game mechanics allow it or not, it's a despicable action and should be condemned both inside and outside any game.
The fact that the aggressor attacked a weaker ship which had no bounty or cargo at all, nor any chance of winning the combat means to me one two things: 1) The attacker wasn't smart enough to realize that there was a real person flying that ship, or 2) he felt satisfaction with the defender's misery. And IMO any person who feels joy because of another person's suffering is clinically insane. As simple as that. And I'll repeat just in case: I don't care at all on how you name this action, nor if it is allowed by the actual game mechanics or not. This is a purely ethic matter.

Its an interesting discussion sure. Need I point out its a computer game, none of this is real. Ethics don't come into it because its sold as a combat game.

By your suggestion, psycho pilots looking for a fight are only allowed to attack stronger ships where they are likely to loose? Thats not how combat works, people have to exploit weakness to win. Your seeing so much emotion here that doesn't exist, while neglecting the fact Open game mode was designed to include these scenarios.

 

[Knot2clever]

While the sanity of those who chose to behave in such a manner seems to be in question, surly the sanity of those that complain about such small trivial issues be in question.

"today I was griefed by another player, I know this can happen, but this commander was cheating. He was using a cheat that filled in his hollow shape AND removed the Cmdr in front of his name"

Honestly what difference can it possibly make.

 

[vizvayu]

No, really. Lets not bring ethics into this, please. Ethics relates to serious stuff, like , murder, genocide... things which have horrific consequences in the real world. Playing a game, entirely within the rules of said game, cannot in any circumstances be considered unethical by anybody clinically sane.

You may have a hard time trying to explain why people spend so much time in-game then, and why are there so many posts complaining about "griefers" (or whatever you want to call those). This is not real life, obviously, but for most players this game IS important. And what happens IN the game is important too. At a lesser degree than real life of course, but that doesn't change the fact that up to some point the game is important too. If it weren't they just wouldn't spend so much time playing it. The difference with real life and "bigger" problems is just quantity, but it's the same quality after all.
And I meant no offense calling people insane. I apologise if you felt it that way.

 

[Max Torps]

This is the best post of the thread and it, as usually, gets mostly ignored.
I agree with Cmdr. Loetmichel, and IMO regardless of the name it's given and if the game mechanics allow it or not, it's a despicable action and should be condemned both inside and outside any game.
The fact that the aggressor attacked a weaker ship which had no bounty or cargo at all, nor any chance of winning the combat means to me one two things: 1) The attacker wasn't smart enough to realize that there was a real person flying that ship, or 2) he felt satisfaction with the defender's misery. And IMO any person who feels joy because of another person's suffering is clinically insane. As simple as that. And I'll repeat just in case: I don't care at all on how you name this action, nor if it is allowed by the actual game mechanics or not. This is a purely ethic matter.

I have a confession.

I played in open as I do most of the time, the only other time I don't is to defeat docking blockades (as there are no queues).

This is game launch period, probably a couple of weeks in. So there I am in open, floating in space in an anarchy system, looking out for potential targets with a bounty. Sadly, there aren't any. It's full of clean players like me looking for players with a bounty so they can kill them "legitimately".

We all sit there for hours. Mainly because criminals can pay off so they don't have a bounty right? So here we all are waiting. I see players in all sorts of ships, we dance around the buoy and generally goof around. There is no "local chat" to speak of , at least none used, so there are no communications.

I see someone "witch-space in". Warp in sounds cooler. So does "jump in". Anyway.

This player jumps in. They are in a Cobra MkIII. I'm in a Sidewinder. Because there is no mechanic telling me otherwise and because I have been bored out of my skull for three hours I fire a few shots at him. He responds. We exchange more fire. They die. I feel bad.

Months later, I confess this to you.

Is this how a game should be?

 

[Backelaer]

Why? Why do people take the effort to open a new thread just to state their frustration with being attacked in open?

That's thegame! You go into open, you risk being attacked. Does there need to be a reason? No. Stuff happens. I don't randomly attack people by the way, but some people do.
I for one accept that. Besides, teh game gives you ample opportunities to evade a violent encounter. I just don't see what the big deal is. And I just don't see why people get so upset they feel the need to open a thread about it...

 

[Zeeman]

Oh dear, here we go again.... Being blown up ONCE by someone is not "griefing". Several times, yes, once, no. It's not nice, I agree, though. Still, the solution is don't play Open if it's a big issue to you.

I know where this thread is headed, so I'll leave it here.

Yup, pretty much this. Game working as intended.

Z...

 

[Renegade Roach]

You may have a hard time trying to explain why people spend so much time in-game then, and why are there so many posts complaining about "griefers" (or whatever you want to call those). This is not real life, obviously, but for most players this game IS important. And what happens IN the game is important too. At a lesser degree than real life of course, but that doesn't change the fact that up to some point the game is important too. If it weren't they just wouldn't spend so much time playing it. The difference with real life and "bigger" problems is just quantity, but it's the same quality after all.
And I meant no offense calling people insane. I apologise if you felt it that way.

I've never attacked another player outside of a conflict/warzone unless they were wanted (and properly wanted, not bothering for 200c), so your insult was meaningless to me. The fact that people spend a large amount of time on the game, or that loosing upsets them in no way makes it unethical for another player to attack entirely within the rules of the game. If people get upset it is unfortunate, but they are getting upset over a game. People get upset when they loose a football match, or if they get beaten in a race. That does not make it unethical for the winner to have beaten them. The 'non-consensual' argument holds no water when the rules specifically dictate that by entering the field of play you are consenting to such possibilities.

 

[Knot2clever]

You may have a hard time trying to explain why people spend so much time in-game then, and why are there so many posts complaining about "griefers" (or whatever you want to call those). This is not real life, obviously, but for most players this game IS important. And what happens IN the game is important too. At a lesser degree than real life of course, but that doesn't change the fact that up to some point the game is important too. If it weren't they just wouldn't spend so much time playing it. The difference with real life and "bigger" problems is just quantity, but it's the same quality after all.
And I meant no offense calling people insane. I apologise if you felt it that way.

I disagree with part of your other post. I think it was in fact your post that was the best post of the thread.

This post was same old, same old and I was just poking fun and being sarcastic until your post.

It raised some interesting points and generated interesting responses.

What baffles me, is something I do for fun and enjoyment is just that fun. If players are holding on so tight to feel the way they feel in this circumstance then it is hardly fun.
So why do they persist.

If people play games to somehow make up for other "issues" in real life then perhaps I could understand it. But its still a game, still not real. Just a bunch of pixels. How can it make any difference to anyone's life if computer controlled or human controlled. Only in their heads. Something must be set a bit wrong.

 

[Loetmichel]

Why? Why do people take the effort to open a new thread just to state their frustration with being attacked in open?

That's thegame! You go into open, you risk being attacked. Does there need to be a reason? No. Stuff happens. I don't randomly attack people by the way, but some people do.
I for one accept that. Besides, teh game gives you ample opportunities to evade a violent encounter. I just don't see what the big deal is. And I just don't see why people get so upset they feel the need to open a thread about it...

And you knew all that after 4 days?

 

[Renegade Roach]

And you knew all that after 4 days?

Personally it didn't take me 4 days to realise that I might get killed in open without somebody asking if I minded, and that there were ways to avoid it. Learning all the tricks takes longer but, please, let's stop pretending people can't think for themselves.

 

[Sidey]

This is the best post of the thread and it, as usually, gets mostly ignored.
I agree with Cmdr. Loetmichel, and IMO regardless of the name it's given and if the game mechanics allow it or not, it's a despicable action and should be condemned both inside and outside any game.
The fact that the aggressor attacked a weaker ship which had no bounty or cargo at all, nor any chance of winning the combat means to me one two things: 1) The attacker wasn't smart enough to realize that there was a real person flying that ship, or 2) he felt satisfaction with the defender's misery. And IMO any person who feels joy because of another person's suffering is clinically insane. As simple as that. And I'll repeat just in case: I don't care at all on how you name this action, nor if it is allowed by the actual game mechanics or not. This is a purely ethic matter.

Is this a joke? An ethical matter? This is a game.

There is no difference to being downed by an NPC and being downed by a player in terms of gameplay and the associated loss. None whatsoever. You lose the same ship, you lose the same equipment and you lose the same cargo. It can suck when it happens.

No-one complains when the AI decides to murder a pilot just for laughs, PvEers take that as part and parcel of the game, no problem. However, if it is a player who does the exact same act then the response is "griefer", "this person enjoys other's misery", "these actions should be shunned by the whole community" etc etc. Two completely different reactions for the same loss.

I do genuinely wonder what you guys would do if FD had kept the AI's hyper accurate aiming skills that they had in alpha, or if FD managed to actually write a real challenging 1-on-1 combat AI such that the difference in terms of difficulty between facing a human or AI opponent was generally negligible. Then everyone would be complaining about those horrible NPCs who like griefing innocent players.