Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[sovapid]

There should be an interesting community reaction if the Agent's starter non-PvP area rumor is true.

That'd be fine and I think the game should do it. I want SC to have safe areas where pvp is next to impossible.

Hopefully CIG can do the starter area better than ED did.

I'd be fine with going the Eve way and if you suicide gank in the starting areas you can get banned from the game.

 

[Mole HD]

I'm curious about this. If Vulkan can do this wonderous thing, why can't DX? Have MS been sleeping on this for years while Vulkan overtook DX? Its not like MS to allow a competitor to gain an advantage like this without a fight.

There's not much to pick between either of them...from a performance viewpoint or technical use. DX12/Vulkan perform much the same. I can see why Ci¬G would chose Vulkan over Microsoft's propriety API though

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Well I'd say Chris would do nice if they released Linux client. I mean it is not so stupid idea when you think about it. Some Linux guys buy about any game published because "hey they support Linux community"

 

[Mole HD]

This isn't an ED thread.

You don't seem to mind that much when you're posting Odyssey screenshots or decide for yourself to compare two completely dissimilar space games...just sayin'

 

[StuartGT]

Seems like Frontier care immensely about PvP balance, to the detriment of weapon and equipment variety and versatility in PvE - just about everything cool and fun gets nerfed and insanely ammo limited (or more dishearteningly never added to the game at all) in the name of PvP balance - it’s just that despite PvE fun being held hostage to the premise of PvP balance, they never actually put in enough work to achieve PvP balance.

It's amazing how someone could say the PvE weapon and equipment in Elite Dangerous isn't varied or versatile, almost to the point where one would have to question whether they've even played it (or if they have, whether they can be objective about it).

Weapons

elite-dangerous.fandom.com

Engineers

The Engineers are secretive, eccentric individuals who can modify the weapons and modules of ships to exceed baseline performance standards. As they reside in Workshops on planetary surfaces, they are only accessible to ships equipped with a Planetary Approach Suite. The modifications that...

elite-dangerous.fandom.com

Experimental Effect

An Experimental Effect, formerly known as a Special Effect, is a bonus modification that an Engineer can apply to a weapon or module that already has an Engineering modification of any quality grade. Depending on which Experimental Effect is chosen, they can be used to further enhance the...

elite-dangerous.fandom.com

As this is the SC thread, I too am looking forward to the day that SC offers the depth of gameplay customisation offered by Elite's combat model.

 

[Mole HD]

Well I'd say Chris would do nice if they released Linux client. I mean it is not so stupid idea when you think about it. Some Linux guys buy about any game published because "hey they support Linux community"

That'd be fine and I think the game should do it. I want SC to have safe areas where pvp is next to impossible.

Hopefully CIG can do the starter area better than ED did.

I'd be fine with going the Eve way and if you suicide gank in the starting areas you can get banned from the game.

Why do I always get the feeling that 'the Linux community' and 'the Eve community' are one and the same people?

 

[Ed02349]

You know someone new is defending SC when the forum gains 2 pages in a a few hours.

I've been away for a while how is SQq42 coming along? Still a secret so not to spoil the campaign?

 

[StuartGT]

I know we laugh about it in this thread a lot, but it still amazes me how many people think it's a good idea to "I'm gonna say a definitive opinion about something that's incredibly easy to disprove via minimal research" in this thread.

Is it a Star Citizen thing?

Seriously, we joke about CIG marketing targeting "easy marks" or whatever, but it's kinda unreal seeing it happen in real time.

 

[Mole HD]

You know someone new is defending SC when the forum gains 2 pages in a a few hours.

I've been away for a while how is SQq42 coming along? Still a secret so not to spoil the campaign?

We all know exactly what the Sqn42 story campaign will be like, Chris Roberts wrote the script in crayon on the same cigarette packet he used for the rest of his magnificent contributions to the film and game industries.... you'll know exactly how it'll play out especially if you've ever played any of the wing commander games or were unfortunate enough to have seen the movie during the 90's...all exactly the same...some have giant cats, some have giant hairless cats, Sqn42 has strangely alien cats...Cats attack earth... old guy who hates cats patronises young wingman mercilessly and doesn't get a slap for it...old guy dies, young guy decides he hates cats as well and very strangely, has the early onset of dementia, forgets he should have given the old guy a slap and instead remembers the grumpy pensioner as actually being really nice, flies off and saves the Earth

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Why do I always get the feeling that 'the Linux community' and 'the Eve community' are one and the same people?

Probably not, but well I have seen some Linux guys praising absolutely garbage games to heaven just because, well they were released on Linux (Not me though, and I'm member of said community, I do run Linux on all of my somewhat modern computers, though some more purist members would disagree because well I do run also Windows 10...)

 

[StuartGT]

Well I'd say Chris would do nice if they released Linux client. I mean it is not so stupid idea when you think about it. Some Linux guys buy about any game published because "hey they support Linux community"

Linux support is one of the things Chris promised way back in the day

Star Citizen Will Be Coming To Linux - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

I bet he's forgotten about that now, whoops.

 

[Red Martian]

I am slowly getting lost in the argument you are making. I think plenty of people here will understand what streaming or culling means. There are reasons for those techniques -memory management in various forms has been with us since the dawn of computer entertainment and it is a fascinating technical area on its own.

But that is not the point. And before you read the rest, please be assured it is not an attack on your person, it is an attempt at accuracy. And if you find anything I said lacking it - please go ahead and point it out.

CIG sold something with the promise they can implement it in the future. Over the years they have kept earning tens of millions of dollars each year riding mostly on these promises (let's not fool ourselves, most of CIG's income comes from dream.txt, not from the actual game as it is). Are you saying what they were selling for years is impossible?

And, if they knowingly sold something they knew they could not deliver (that would not be the first time), what would you call such practice?

This is why so many people became so bitter about CIG and SC. And this is why some people's detectors are turning red at a smallest whiff of someone channeling the way they communicate. There is no reason to talk about "as it is intended" or "flyable" or any kind of "it is planned". This will make people call you out pretty fast. The amount of dishonesty and mistrust CIG generated around themselves over the last decade is only on them. Not on you, not on the person who is asking you to be accurate.

On them.

No need to help them spread the creep even further.

This. I want them to succeed, but I think they're going at it from the wrong direction with the wrong engine, to be honest. They've hacked the heck out of the CryEngine/Lumberyard to the point where its former ability to be an FPS has been hampered and they have to actively work to make it work as an FPS again along with everything else. Quite frankly, Elite Dangerous is on track to do close to the same thing SC has promised, and they already have functioning game loops. SC has become a dream simulator, and the poor programmers, artists, and engineers working their tails off to make it happen probably know half the stuff that has been sold to backers cannot happen the way CR wants it.

In a little over a week, I'll have a Hercules C2 sitting in my hangar. I will likely love it. The problem? There will be nothing for me to do with it. I can fly around with it, do what little borked trading can be done, and then have a 30K wipe that progress, and then I'll spend 3 hours waiting to reclaim my ship because as I said before, CiG is building the house from the attic down, and so we have prison "gameplay" and all of these protocols to prevent just burning a ship and reclaiming, when there are so many bugs you might have to reclaim your ship several times a week at least. They're putting all of the punishments in while the game is punishing enough.

People tell me "you should get an SSD, that's the real problem," and when I tell them I have an NVMe M.2 drive, suddenly it must be something else causing all of those bugs. There are people who will never be reached, and it's because this is a dream simulator. Look, I love space sims, I bought Elite and was in love right away. Yeah, I couldn't get out of my ship, and so many things were menu based, but look where they are now, and they're still progressing! That's why I said that ED will do in a few more years what SC has spent their entire existence promising and not delivering.

I don't have to have Second Life in Space, I don't have to have a real time simulator where I shower, shave my legs, grab a bite to eat, hop into my spacesuit and take my Freelancer down to the planet surface to pick up some widgets from the mining colony, drop my coffee cup on the table, leave, come back a week later and it's still there, and it has grown the proper amount of dust and detritus on the surface, so I can take it back to the ship, wash it out and put it in the cupboard. I mean, that's Second Life in Space, and while it would be very impressive as an option, at what point does it stop being a game? In Elite, I can log out wherever I am, come back later, and pick up where I left off because Elite is a game, it's a game, not a life simulator.

SC is too big for its britches. Now they're talking about pets, and sheet physics, and it's like, have you people forgotten it's supposed to be about the life of a spacer? Games aren't supposed to recreate everything in life, just the highlights, the fun stuff, the interesting parts. The plot has been lost, it's just lost.

 

[govny]

I ridicule SC often enough, but I wish we had more believable space ships in E: D.

strange, to me ED ships are much more belieavable than SC ones!

 

[Vetinari]

Your problem is with crowd funding any project, the whole nature of it is to ask for funding to make something happen.

A funding model like this is not unusual, when you have an idea but lack the funds to turn that idea into reality what do you do?

OK, my area of expertise, all that tech talk goes over my head

Old days - You took your business plan to a bank or other official lender, depending on market conditions they either threw money at anything or said no to everything pretending they knew what the business plan actually was. Bank Managers were and are not business people but they liked to think they were. The other way was Angel Investors (rich investors like Caulder or 'Dragons Den' type who want a % but usually do Due Diligence or emply people to do so)

New ways - P2P & Crowdfunding - usually trusting on passing on Due Diligence to the platform providing the 'opportunity'. Now the important thing here is that the average person knows nothing about investing, doesnt know whats possible and whats a plain scam. Thats why scams work coz they promise high returns for little risk and people just fall headlong into the dream instead of knowing how to analyse the reality. Stock Market suffers from this too, few big players and millions of small investors of varying skills - often using companies who may know what theyre doing or not, hedge funds for Pension Providers for example.

Crowd funding is a way of basically making money off the least knowledgable person in the entire marketplace. The 'product' is usually a dream that taps into something missing / a gap in the market and as its only a small investment its a mindset of 'if it doesnt work it doesnt work, no major loss'. Some are genuine products with serious people in charge who have either failed the usual way to get money or dont want to give away their % or want to test the market for their product. A lot are just fanciful ideas that will never come to fruition. Some are outright scams. Crowdfunding today is the scammers dream and plenty are in on the act.

So its not unusual to use this funding model, but its also not unusual to see stories of 'I invested in 10 and 4 failed' - so 40% shouldn't have been given the money at all, it just wasnt realistic but because its a small investment its written off. People think and are given the idea they are playing the percentages in a clever way, they are not, they are being taken for a ride.

Its not unusual either for an outright scam to invent problems and hold-ups to extract more money from people either or say 'its just around the corner' or 'as soon as ABC happens youll get your returns and we just need this to get there'

Ive seen to many dreams pitches, too many scams and too many people who think they can do something they clearly cant to be anything but cynical about SC. Especially now in 2021 with not even a single player SQ42.

So pick my brains, no one can address double negative blanket statements, if you think you know something i don't, and you might, we can have a conversation about that, alternatively we can go round in circles. So unless you know something i don't i'm going to keep telling you i don't see anything in the game that existing technology cannot solve, if you do? Shoot.

The first thing in the game that technology cant solve is Chris Roberts and the clan around him, they arent doing this for the game or for the players, they are doing it because its an absolute gold-mine, the more they make people dream the more money they make. This can only last so long but the less they get held to account the more brazen they become. They now feel they can say 'Itll be done when its done' with impunity.

The second thing technology cant solve is that the moment its actually invented or available every other competitor will use it to do the same thing only better. If it was available now every other company would be using it. Theres enough money in a 'millions in one shard' game of any type whatsoever that a quick knock-off would make millions even if just a PVP Battle Royale and nothing else. Theres a reason that hasnt happened. If the ratio of engineers to artists at CIG was 4-1 they might have a chance and be believable that they are actually trying, with the actual ration of 1-4 it clearly shows what they can do and what they cant do and where they think the money is and what the priority is and its not in inventing tech, its inventing words to make it sound like something is happening or something hasnt been done before.

Having faith is fine but have faith in the one who tells you the truth regardless how obnoxious they might be not the one who repeatedly lies but pretends to be your friend. Thats not faith, thats an inability to spot a confidence trickster playing on your emotions who doesn't care about you at all and just sees you as easy money. Genuine people find it hard to spot confidence scams because they cant believe other people arent like them. They see mistakes instead of outright lies.

Dreaming for that is akin to dreaming CIG will release Sq42 within 9 years of the Kickstarter

Shhh, people almost forgotten that in all reality SQ 42 is due at least 2-5 years before SC and they dont want reminding that without the easier Single Player SQ 42 there will be no SC....and where is SQ42 right now? Or rather when is SQ 42 now?...'It'll be done when its done'. When SQ42 is released Ill believe SC might be possible.

 

[Mole HD]

This. I want them to succeed, but I think they're going at it from the wrong direction with the wrong engine, to be honest. They've hacked the heck out of the CryEngine/Lumberyard to the point where its former ability to be an FPS has been hampered and they have to actively work to make it work as an FPS again along with everything else. Quite frankly, Elite Dangerous is on track to do close to the same thing SC has promised, and they already have functioning game loops. SC has become a dream simulator, and the poor programmers, artists, and engineers working their tails off to make it happen probably know half the stuff that has been sold to backers cannot happen the way CR wants it.

In a little over a week, I'll have a Hercules C2 sitting in my hangar. I will likely love it. The problem? There will be nothing for me to do with it. I can fly around with it, do what little borked trading can be done, and then have a 30K wipe that progress, and then I'll spend 3 hours waiting to reclaim my ship because as I said before, CiG is building the house from the attic down, and so we have prison "gameplay" and all of these protocols to prevent just burning a ship and reclaiming, when there are so many bugs you might have to reclaim your ship several times a week at least. They're putting all of the punishments in while the game is punishing enough.

People tell me "you should get an SSD, that's the real problem," and when I tell them I have an NVMe M.2 drive, suddenly it must be something else causing all of those bugs. There are people who will never be reached, and it's because this is a dream simulator. Look, I love space sims, I bought Elite and was in love right away. Yeah, I couldn't get out of my ship, and so many things were menu based, but look where they are now, and they're still progressing! That's why I said that ED will do in a few more years what SC has spent their entire existence promising and not delivering.

I don't have to have Second Life in Space, I don't have to have a real time simulator where I shower, shave my legs, grab a bite to eat, hop into my spacesuit and take my Freelancer down to the planet surface to pick up some widgets from the mining colony, drop my coffee cup on the table, leave, come back a week later and it's still there, and it has grown the proper amount of dust and detritus on the surface, so I can take it back to the ship, wash it out and put it in the cupboard. I mean, that's Second Life in Space, and while it would be very impressive as an option, at what point does it stop being a game? In Elite, I can log out wherever I am, come back later, and pick up where I left off because Elite is a game, it's a game, not a life simulator.

SC is too big for its britches. Now they're talking about pets, and sheet physics, and it's like, have you people forgotten it's supposed to be about the life of a spacer? Games aren't supposed to recreate everything in life, just the highlights, the fun stuff, the interesting parts. The plot has been lost, it's just lost.

Amen

 

[Xink]

Chris is a ########################### but one ####################### does not make a team, i have faith CIG will get it done despite Chris.

Faith in CIG is like believing in Santa Claus at this point. Not like they have 10 years worth of history for not delivering or anything.

I'd put significant money on Mole's cows suddenly sprouting wings and flying away, forcing the RAF to scramble their jets to shoot them down before they spread methane all over UK inland before betting on CIG delivering.

 

[Mole HD]

strange, to me ED ships are much more belieavable than SC ones!

Horses for courses, I prefer the scale and attention to detail Ci¬G put into their ships, the interiors, the visuals...but that's strictly a personal preference. The ships in SC, however nice or industrial or aggressively designed they may be...all of them have absolutely zero realistic function or purpose in game. Nothing works, some are constantly being reworked or refactored, most are left in the semi broken state they were released in, all of them with no supporting gameplay to make them viable.

From a personal view again...I'd love the ships, interiors, visuals, personal armours, planetary tech and some of SC's actually working game mechanics (mining) set in the awe inspiring environment of Elite's galaxy...now there's a game I'd never leave.

Both games have done some things very right and a lot of things very wrong from a design sense...I love both for very different reasons...but there's nothing wrong with wishing the good bits of both were in the same imaginary game

 

[StuartGT]

strange, to me ED ships are much more belieavable than SC ones!

Clearly you don't understand believable space ship development

 

[ECity]

You don't seem to mind that much when you're posting Odyssey screenshots or decide for yourself to compare two completely dissimilar space games...just sayin'

Comparison of SC to other games is useful. It's not a thread for direct evaluation of those other games.

 

[Mole HD]

Comparison of SC to other games is useful. It's not a thread for direct evaluation of those other games.

Meh, I wasn't picking holes E...I've done it myself with Odyssey and Star Citizen... if only for having the lengthy experience of SC's space legs as a direct comparison