Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[Agony_Aunt]

Speaking for myself and a lot of people I know.
CIG is the only company trying to deliver (and already delivering some parts of) what I want in a space game : beautiful visuals in space and on planets with weather, no loading, ship interior, EVA, a leg first universe and FPS. So no choice if you want all of that. And the funding will not dry up as the alpha is more and more enjoyable patch after patch. The more CIG is funded, the more the alpha deliver. It's only in your mind that you don't see delivery, and a lot of recent ED players switching to SC sudenly realise that. They try the SC alpha because of EDO, thinking they will only find jpg/no gameplay/crash every 5 min after reading tread like this one and have a blast.

If i were to say i was trying to make the ultimate game, the one that would be the game to end all games for you. You'd never play another game again, would you give me money just because i'm trying to do it?

I mean, normally when someone tries to make an everything game, either it is a scam or its someone trying to bite off more than they can chew.

Of course you wouldn't give me any money because you have no reason to believe I could deliver on your everything game.

Just like some people here do not believe CIG can deliver on their everything game.

I mean, did you watch the latest ISC? Actually listen to what they are saying. So much work still to be done on Orison itself. And yet some backers think this game can be made for less than billions and in our lifetimes.

"No compromises" is the rallying cry. Make the game you want to make CIG. Make the game i've always wanted. And fill it with chocolate and unicorns and it will be wonderful.

And that is how you never actually get a released product.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

My trust is not misplaced.

Dude, its fine to have a little faith, but you're talking about the guy who has repeatedly failed to deliver on his promises, not only throughout the lifetime to Star Citizen but also with earlier games, most notably Freelancer. Overpromised, underdelivered. He did the same with an earlier game as well.

Only this time there is nobody to bail him out, nobody to keep control of him.

CR is not a man to wholeheartedly believe in.

A healthy dose of skepticism is a good thing. (not suggesting you need to be a full on skeptic like some of us here are).

What will you do if CIG crashes and burns? As CR walks off into the sunset saying "We tried, the backers just didn't have enough faith. If we'd just had a few more years and a few hundred more million we could have done it"

Will you then parrot CR's words? Blame yourself for your lack of faith? Cursing yourself for not giving CR more money? Or perhaps, just perhaps, at that point you might think "My trust was misplaced"

 

[Agony_Aunt]

So where should I go if I want my daily dose of beautiful visuals in space and on planets with weather, ship interior, EVA, a leg first universe and FPS ? Which game can I play now for this experience ? Or which company can I trust for it now ?

Play SC. Nobody is suggesting you shouldn't. You already gave CIG money.

You might want to think twice about giving them any more money though.

But trust them? LOL. Its like someone saying "Trust EA!" or "Trust Ubisoft!"... although at least you can generally trust them to actually deliver on what they charge you for.

 

[VR Golgot]

And the funding will not dry up as the alpha is more and more enjoyable patch after patch. The more CIG is funded, the more the alpha deliver.

It's a lovely 'just so' story. Life doesn't tend to level up in such a neat and organised way though

Some examples would be:

• The alpha isn't always 'more enjoyable patch after patch': Many patches over the years have been seen as less enjoyable than prior ones due to the technical issues they've introduced. 3.14 seems to be one of them due to the desynch issues, for players such as Mole at any rate (as he eloquently put it).

• More funding ≠ more engineering output: CIG have taken on some absurd technical challenges. If 'Server Meshing' is not technically possible for SC's use case, for example, throwing infinite funds and monkeys at it won't make a difference or guarantee an end product. But it will certainly eat through a lot of funds in the process. (Around $1/4mil a month at the moment).

The pattern of the last few years has been pretty clear. The majority of the technical advances they've roadmapped and hoped for have failed to emerge. (The Looking Into 2020 talk by the production leads is a good recent example). As such additions have heavily favoured the 'cosmetic' instead. (Output which can scale with funding, it's worth noting ).

That's a great way to keep on attracting new players, and new funds. But whether it's a great way to build a game (and wrestle yourself out of perpetual alpha status), is still very much an open question

 

[LittleAnt]

If i were to say i was trying to make the ultimate game, the one that would be the game to end all games for you. You'd never play another game again, would you give me money just because i'm trying to do it?

I mean, did you watch the latest ISC? Actually listen to what they are saying. So much work still to be done on Orison itself.

Get me an alpha where I can land now on a flying city with all the features I can find in SC now but better and more stable than SC and I directly buy your alpha access for several hundred of euros, even if you say me that the release is in 10 years.

Since last year, I don't care anymore if SC will release or not because I already play it like a released product.
You see ? You talk about "trying" to deliver fun where I talk about my actual and instant fun. I don't dream about the future fun I will get, I just get it now. And that's also what experience now some long term ED players in the SC alpha currently.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Not a clue who or what Mojang are/is, or what on earth they/it has to do with folk who occasionally play or stream Star Citizen

As others have said, Mojang is the company that develops Minecraft, which is undoubtably the best $12(?) I ever spent on a video game. ECity is referrering to a couple of blocks that were teased before production of the “Caves and Cliffs” update began IIRC, but aren’t available in the game… except through cheat commands. He seems to be trying to compare this “lie” by Mojang, and another “lie” by another game developer that has some of its player base throwing their toys out the pram about, to CIGs many many many failures to deliver the actual promises it’s made over the years, which much of their fan base seem to be bizarrely sanguine about.

 

[VR Golgot]

You talk about "trying" to deliver fun

He didn't.

He talked about CIG trying to deliver what they've discussed and pre-sold. A different thing. And a common confusion with you for some reason

 

[Darkfyre99]

CIG is the only company trying to deliver (and already delivering some parts of) what I want in a space game : beautiful visuals in space and on planets with weather, no loading, ship interior, EVA, a leg first universe and FPS. So no choice if you want all of that.

It’s amazing how you continue to ignore the many games out there that fit that description. Empyrion Galactic Survival, Space Engineers, and Dual Universe* are just the ones I know about, because they also let me design my own ships and bases. Granted they’re all survival games of one type or another, but then SC had survival mechanics clumsily shoehorned into the game as well.

edit:
*I’m not sure if DU has weather implemented yet…

 

[LittleAnt]

It’s amazing how you continue to ignore the many games out there that fit that description.

I don't ignore them. I've played, tested or get a lot of info on them. None of them compete on the visual aspect of SC.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I don't ignore them. I've played, tested or get a lot of info on them. None of them compete on the visual aspect of SC.

Visual aspects are superficial. Gameplay is not.

 

[Darkfyre99]

I don't ignore them. I've played, tested or get a lot of info on them. None of them compete on the visual aspect of SC.

In what way? Because “beauty” is as subjective as “fun”, and only difference I see between these games and SC is CIG’s unnecessary obsession with minute details.., the kind of details that won’t be seen in normal play, but tank performance by their very presence.

 

[LittleAnt]

In what way? Because “beauty” is as subjective as “fun”, and only difference I see between these games and SC is CIG’s unnecessary obsession with minute details.., the kind of details that won’t be seen in normal play, but tank performance by their very presence.

I have pretty good performance and SC give me a huge sense of immersion that I can't find in those games. They are fun to play, but they are not immersive for me.

 

[Skizomeuh]

Hats off keeping engaging with petite fourmi. I can't anymore. Hats off to him too to inflict himself almost daily the answers he could easily predict. Though it's on par with SC: you have to be more or less masochist.

 

[cheesenbiscuits]

I have pretty good performance and SC give me a huge sense of immersion that I can't find in those games. They are fun to play, but they are not immersive for me.

I get your point,right now ignoring the bugs they have a space ship simulator and if they were to stop now and make it work as is I would drop £40 down and I think most space game fans would too.
What it isn't is the space game to end all space games,it's a collection of high quality assets that would do rather well commercially if CIG would just drop the grift.

 

[cigwatch]

So where should I go if I want my daily dose of beautiful visuals in space and on planets with weather, ship interior, EVA, a leg first universe and FPS ? Which game can I play now for this experience ? Or which company can I trust for it now ?

I am not saying you should go anywhere. You play what you enjoy playing. But the practice of conflating this enjoyment with "trust" towards an incompetent developer or absolving them from all the misinformation they broadcast to keep the money flowing is why you will never see that game even close to its promised state. Not only because they overpromised, which is part of the problem, but also because given the stance the fanbase is taking, they have no incentive to do it. As long as they mix new chapters in dream.txt with a bit of delivery, people will continue paying.

Unfortunately, that phenomenon does not come for free. The flip side to every person showering CIG with praise and money for their non-delivery is a person who will never see a coherent, promised experience, including Squadron 42. People like me. It is a cursed self-selection mechanism in which preferences of people who are unwilling to put up with this poo poo anymore and decide to wait, are drowned out by those who are gullible enough to continue paying, thinking that supporting the very process that brought us the current state of affairs is somehow also the way to escape it.

(Did I ever tell you what the definition of insanity is?)

The only scenario where people like me could finally see what they paid for coming to life, is the repeat of the Microsoft / Freelancer story. Only this time there is no Microsoft to rescue the project.

 

[VR Golgot]

Hats off keeping engaging with petite fourmi. I can't anymore. Hats off to him too to inflict himself almost daily the answers he could easily predict. Though it's on par with SC: you have to be more or less masochist.

Hey we're just killing time until Ant's slot at the Prediction Awards comes around

Thankfully Ant has already honoured us with a prediction timeframe for various other lesser items:

SQ42 beta end of 2021.
Vulkan late this year.
Second system late 2021, early 2022.
iCache a huge mess at start, good tech at the end of 2021.

Which we can compare with CIG's initial predictions:

SQ42 beta: Roadmapped for Q2 2020. Ant's Prediction: 1.5 years late.
SQ42: Roadmapped for 2014 release (and 2015, and 2016, and 2017...). Ant's Prediction: 7 years+ late.
Second system: Roadmapped for 2017. Ant's Prediction: 4 years+ late
iCache: A pre-requisite for server meshing, should have been in Q4 2018, last predicted for mid 2020. Ant's prediction: Approx 2.5 years late

Anyone wanna bet on Ant's cautious predictions being overly optimistic

He's played it cooler than prior candidates, with those dialled down expectations. This year's award ceremony may not be as raucous, or lead to him slinking out of the thread.

But given these are things Ant has been championing for almost his entire time in the thread (iCache, Server Meshing, Second System, SQ42 etc) I hope we're not put through a whole 2022 of the same identical dreamcrafting :/

Partially for you Ant. It's gotta start to burn at some point, seeing the years of missed deadlines pile up

Their are late on the beta (as usual).
I will say a closed beta starting in 3 months for a release at the end of 2021.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Hats off keeping engaging with petite fourmi. I can't anymore. Hats off to him too to inflict himself almost daily the answers he could easily predict. Though it's on par with SC: you have to be more or less masochist.

OMG, I totally forgot the word for "ant". This thread is pretty educational. From foreign languages down to cow science, if we poke Mole enough. Sometimes even some tech insights.

 

[cigwatch]

Perfection. Chris uttered this manure as they were running out of cash.

 

[ECity]

As others have said, Mojang is the company that develops Minecraft, which is undoubtably the best $12(?) I ever spent on a video game. ECity is referrering to a couple of blocks that were teased before production of the “Caves and Cliffs” update began IIRC, but aren’t available in the game… except through cheat commands.

Since @LTNTDan and @Old Duck have freaked out over minor issues with the other space game, I figured they'd like to track the troves of players abandoning the lying liars at Mojang for the good wholesome people at Cloud Imperium.

Instead they both keep ignoring the numerous serious complaints about SC from veteran players.

 

[ECity]

Are you genuinely just running out of relevant comments...

I'm responding to the intense nonsense in this thread.