The power the ED forum holds over others is unspeakable. It can literally prevent people from doing things.
Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12
- Thread starter Yaffle
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Ship interiors, proper multi crew gameplay.
They promised ship interiors for EDO? Could you point me to marketing material mentioning it? Because the official stance was pretty clear:
ANNOUNCEMENT - Odyssey: Update on VR and Ship Interiors
Greetings Commanders! We hope you enjoyed our first dev diary release and stream. It was our pleasure to bring you the latest news on Odyssey and needless to say we can't wait to share more info around further locations, missions, combat and more in further episodes over the coming months. We...
What is "proper multi crew gameplay" BTW, and when exactly were they promising it for EDO?
Ah, right, so its all because of people highlighting issues with the game instead of singing CR's praises that have stopped people playing it?
Damn those Goons!!!
Perhaps its those who are saying you can't play it simply act as a counter to those who claim that they can play for hours without bugs. If it wasn't for the detractors then those trying SC would experience something vastly worse than what the faithful tell them to expect!
So we are actually doing something good for SC by lowering expectations!
I should buy an Idris!
I get that, i do. i can't afford a new GPU either.
But your criticism for CR, most of which i agree with is not the be all and end all for all CIG staff and the game they made, we are all individuals here making our own choices.
You seem to have caught LTNTDan’s disease.
Where has anyone actually said that?
Lol.
'Stop criticising the dubiously monetised perpetual alpha infamous for its untrustworthy dream pitches. Just buy it and do your best to enjoy it.'
You do you Intrepid. £350 well spent and all that. You don’t get to gatekeep who can critique SC’s broader issues though
You say it ironically while in fact that's exactly what an ED player said in the SC reddit when he discovered that SC was not crap
They promised ship interiors for EDO? Could you point me to marketing material mentioning it? Because the official stance was pretty clear:
ANNOUNCEMENT - Odyssey: Update on VR and Ship Interiors
Greetings Commanders! We hope you enjoyed our first dev diary release and stream. It was our pleasure to bring you the latest news on Odyssey and needless to say we can't wait to share more info around further locations, missions, combat and more in further episodes over the coming months. We...forums.frontier.co.uk
What is "proper multi crew gameplay" BTW, and when exactly were they promising it for EDO?
Are you really going to make me dig up the promises Braben made? You know a lot about the promises CR failed to deliver on but nothing about Braben.
Indeed we are and i've made my decision. Others can also make their decisions. But a decision is best made when you are properly informed, and those looking at SC will never hear the criticisms of CR/CIG from the faithful not the real history of what happened. Instead they will hear only the excuses like "they had to build a company first" and "development only really started in 2016". Nothing about the things CR has promised over the years, nothing about his statements saying the game was almost ready, that backers would get everything promised by the end of 2016.
Either because the faithful themselves are ignorant of these things or the dismiss them or, perhaps even in some cases, are aware, know it happened, but would rather perpetuate lies in order to rope more people into the game than be honest.
So, by hearing both the praise and the criticism and being informed of the full history of CIG/CR/SC/SQ42 then people are able to do their own research as well and make their own informed decisions.
If we skeptics were quiet, and only the faithful had a voice, then the lies would be perpetuated without counter.
If after hearing all the arguments someone is still willing to give CIG money, then that's on them. Just hope they don't get dissapointed with the end result.
it is not the game, it is that SC community watch streamers more than playing the game. They have a lot more view, hence more money.
Most people just play the game, they don't concern themselves with the politics of CR, they judge the game on how they experience it not by how big of a ######### CR is.
The short story there is that they never put a time frame, or a DLC delivery order, on any of the expansion aims they pre-sold.
It’s an aspect that’s more than worthy of criticism. But it means that your claim of EDO being 'advertised' as delivering ship interiors is wrong.
(They did handle expectations poorly with the 'not at launch' phrasing though, for EDO. And that too is very worthy of criticism).
If it helps, they are getting slammed on all of these aspects
(Hence the flow of refugees to SC
)Of course, CR is the rout of all that's evil and Braben is just misunderstood.The short story there is that they never put a time frame, or a DLC delivery order, on any of the expansion aims they pre-sold.
It’s an aspect that’s more than worthy of criticism. But it means that your claim of EDO being 'advertised' as delivering ship interiors is wrong.
(They did handle expectations poorly with the 'not at launch' phrasing though, for EDO. And that too is very worthy of criticism).
If it helps, they are getting slammed on all of these aspects
(Hence the flow of refugees to SC
Braben categorically said ED would have ship interiours, crititcs of him have those clips in their videos, if you like i can dig one up and copy the exact time here. I would rather not as this persons videos have had me sanctioned before. They don't like him.
This isn't about politics, its about whether CR/CIG are good stewards of the money people are giving to them.
I'm pretty certain many faithful backers have on more than one occasion decried companies like EA and other AAA publishers for their bad practices and declared how they would never give them money.
In fact, we know they have, because we've seen it. And the whole project started with the rallying cry of CIG not being like those big bad publishers.
And yet, here we are, CIG acting not just like the big bad publishers, but worse. Because the big bad publishers release their games, or at least an EA which clearly represents what the final product will be like, whereas CIG asked for a lot of money upfront and we still don't have any clue as to when a releasable product might be ready or what it will actually be like.
And any rebuttal to that is white knighting.
What do you think about the Steam reviews this game has?
I just agreed that FDev dangling the giant carrots of the DLC, putting no timeframe on their delivery, and pre-selling the same is bad practice, and more than worthy of criticism. I criticise them plenty for it
What CIG have done is worse though, all the way down the line. Yes.
Promising a perpetually growing list of detailed functionality, funded via the perpetual pre-selling of macro items, while perpetually roadmapping big pillar feature additions (and perpetually failing to deliver many them) etc etc. They have dangled way more carrots, pre-sold them way more heavily, and they just… don’t… stop…
FDev gets near to the same foibles, but comparatively they are saved by: (A) only having pre-sold these deep-time items for two key periods (the £80 & £120 lifetime pass sales); (B) Having mainly held off from promising more and more detailed additions to their dream pitches, and (C) Having delivered products to market that fulfil on some of those pitches. (If less so on EDO performance to date
).That’s not an argument for FDev being fine, or merely misunderstood. It’s an argument for CIG’s behaviour being worse. It’s that simple.
Yes I’m fully aware of everything he’s said. None of those statements ever put a timeframe on delivery, other than 'in a future DLC' though.
If you look at the marketing material used to sell the LEPs (like the roadmap in the link I provided), and at the text from point of sale, this is particularly clear.
All of this means that they absolutely have pre-sold ship interiors. And they absolutely have to attempt them, for as long as ED is a going concern. And we all absolutely have the right to hold their feet to the fire over that.
But it all also still means you are wrong to state that they advertised this DLC as containing ship interiors. None of the lifetime pass pre-sales make that commitment (if anything, they do the opposite, in terms of not committing to a scheduling order). EDO itself wasn’t advertised as having those features.
Be angry about them still not being in the game, and at hints that they might be, for sure. Be more than that if ED folds and they never deliver them.
But while you’re at it, be thankful that you didn’t buy a Javelin for $3000. Or SQ42 in 2012
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FDev have put what was promised in the original pledge into 2 DLC's, the latter $40. some of it.
What you are talking about is post pledge promises as if the original pledge never happened.
What you are talking about is post pledge promises as if the original pledge never happened.
you seem to forghet that during original pledge campaign they clearly said this future contents would have been paid DLC.
Or maybe you know but like spreading some lies.
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
I just agreed that FDev dangling the giant carrots of the DLC, putting no timeframe on their delivery, and pre-selling the same is bad practice, and more than worthy of criticism. I criticise them plenty for it
What CIG have done is worse though, all the way down the line. Yes.
Promising a perpetually growing list of detailed functionality, funded via the perpetual pre-selling of macro items, while perpetually roadmapping big pillar feature additions (and perpetually failing to deliver many them) etc etc. They have dangled way more carrots, pre-sold them way more heavily, and they just… don’t… stop…
FDev gets near to the same foibles, but comparatively they are saved by: (A) only having pre-sold these deep-time items for two key periods (the £80 & £120 lifetime pass sales); (B) Having mainly held off from promising more and more detailed additions to their dream pitches, and (C) Having delivered products to market that fulfil on some of those pitches. (If less so on EDO performance to date
That’s not an argument for FDev being fine, or merely misunderstood. It’s an argument for CIG’s behaviour being worse. It’s that simple.
Yes I’m fully aware of everything he’s said. None of those statements ever put a timeframe on delivery, other than 'in a future DLC' though.
If you look at the marketing material used to sell the LEPs (like the roadmap in the link I provided), and at the text from point of sale, this is particularly clear.
All of this means that they absolutely have pre-sold ship interiors. And they absolutely have to attempt them, for as long as ED is a going concern. And we all absolutely have the right to hold their feet to the fire over that.
But it all also still means you are wrong to state that they advertised this DLC as containing ship interiors. None of the lifetime pass pre-sales make that commitment (if anything, they do the opposite, in terms of not committing to a scheduling order). EDO itself wasn’t advertised as having those features.
Be angry about them still not being in the game, and at hints that they might be, for sure. Be more than that if ED folds and they never deliver them.
But while you’re at it, be thankful that you didn’t buy a Javelin for $3000. Or SQ42 in 2012
Also, another key difference is that CIG has been charging for those promises since day 1, 9 years on so far, to the tune of 350 mil and counting. It hasn't even stopped. That has been reflected in a commercial commitment via Kickstarter and the Stretch Goals to start with. All of them fulfilled from the buyers side. Plus all the concept ships and contrent sold after that. And they represent a very real product debt by CIG to the buyers. All the risk is on the buyers as CIG can always simply decide to not deliver after all the money has been payed.
In the mean time FDEV is only charging for those original ideas if and when they make it to market in a DLC (unless we want to turn this conversation about the LEP limited tiny minority). Some of those original plans have even been delivered at no additional costs (Fleet Carriers). And the market will have those DLC reviewed and criticized almost instantaneously once released, for us to have all the info we need to decide if we buy or not. Until then no one has to worry about considering even paying up a cent. As we can see with EDO all the risk is on the developer.
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"Voices told me to do it". People are blaming their own, willingful, lack of agency on many things. ED forum cannot prevent anyone from doing anything.You say it ironically while in fact that's exactly what an ED player said in the SC reddit when he discovered that SC was not crap