Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[Ebob]

What I mean is- the people who want SC have bought it. Unless it releases for consoles where there is new blood CiG are not going to make huge amounts from core sales of just the game alone.

I suppose that's debatable. There's people that love the vision but can't get behind the business practices or the alpha status. But even those that "wanted" SC and have bought "SC" have not gotten "SC" you know what I mean? It's not the grand vision that's playable yet, but they're working on it.

And this why people view CiG as they do- its taken 10 years so far, and in that time we have effectively had a fun S42 like game in the shape of CoD Infinite Warfare (and several others) that CR could have done if he had not gone crazy.

I mean, a lot of the sights from Squadron 42 probably won't be in the PU for a while, The Coil, for example. Seeing as a lot of the SC playerbase loves good graphics, people that have already bought into the Alpha will most likely get Squadron 42 aswell. Then there's people that like singleplayer games and don't like the "always Open" design of SC, so they're probably gonna get Squadron for the Singleplayer aspect of it.

Squadron 42 is probably gonna rake them in a lot of money if they do it right.

 

[Viajero]

Squadron 42 is probably gonna rake them in a lot of money if they do it right.

Based on CIG´s track record with regards to SQ42 so far (and the PU as benchmark), what do you think are the chances they actually do it right?

 

[Ebob]

Based on CIG´s track record with regards to SQ42 so far (and the PU as benchmark), what do you think are the chances they actually do it right?

Very high. They know this is make or break. They're not gonna ship a half baked product, I mean, technically speaking we don't have an estimate on in which state CIG releases things since they've not officially released anything. I am also 100% sure Squadron 42 will not get an Alpha as they've said before, since that's just gonna leak out and it would ruin everything about the story of it. Similar to that HL2 leak back in 2003, it would spell the end for Squadron and they'd have to redo the story again.

Internal testing and bug fixing until Squadron is absolutely pristine is my bet.

 

[varonica]

I mean, technically speaking we don't have an estimate on in which state CIG releases things since they've not officially released anything.

Strange response, I mean the question was;

Based on CIG´s track record with regards to SQ42 so far (and the PU as benchmark), what do you think are the chances they actually do it right?

CIG haven't released anything, the current project has gone on for 10 years with nothing released ever, squadron 42 has already been delayed several times, yet based on this track record you think chances of them releasing a finished product this time is very high?

Very high.

They know this is make or break.

How exactly is this "make or break"? They'll just sell more imaginary ships to ever more gullible backers, and new ones who are just starting out on the long wait, they probably will delay it and continue on exactly as they have been doing for the last ten years. I can't see any break point here, I mean it's just another delay more like it!

 

[Rubbernuke]

I suppose that's debatable. There's people that love the vision but can't get behind the business practices or the alpha status. But even those that "wanted" SC and have bought "SC" have not gotten "SC" you know what I mean? It's not the grand vision that's playable yet, but they're working on it.

And how many is that? I'd wager not many, because outside gaming forums (which are quite small) no-one cares. You also have to understand SC along with ED is a niche game genre that has only now really come back from death.

Consoles are where real fresh blood will come from, and be able to sell at premium prices. The other issue is that SC as it stands can never become mainstream because its system requirements are far too high- only via console will you break out of that. Games like Half Life were so popular because they were so flexible and worked on nearly everything going. SC (and EDO sadly, to a lesser extent) require really beefy hardware. If the requirements were lower, more people would play and less milking would be needed. But as it stands only a very niche group can really ever enjoy SC as it was meant to be.

I mean, a lot of the sights from Squadron 42 probably won't be in the PU for a while, The Coil, for example. Seeing as a lot of the SC playerbase loves good graphics, people that have already bought into the Alpha will most likely get Squadron 42 aswell. Then there's people that like singleplayer games and don't like the "always Open" design of SC, so they're probably gonna get Squadron for the Singleplayer aspect of it.

Squadron 42 is probably gonna rake them in a lot of money if they do it right.

But thats not good planning. S42 was supposed to be the main game and SC the offshoot based on S42 sales IIRC. It would validate why CiG went with CryEngine, because S42 would be in essence Crysis 42 and a CoD Infinite Warfare several years before IW.

Whats happened is CR has smelled the money and radically changed his plan to the point where SC is the game and S42 is some curio. I mean, if you can sell a ship for $1000 thats 50 base S42 game sales (that is 1000 / 20 Dollars). And bear in mind S42 would be one off payments (i.e. for ongoing stories) but even then how do you monetise that, when its going to be the most expensive due to CRs movie making habits?

 

[Ebob]

And how many is that? I'd wager not many, because outside gaming forums (which are quite small) no-one cares. You also have to understand SC along with ED is a niche game genre that has only now really come back from death.

Look at IGN videos on SC and you'll see most of the comments proclaiming scam scam scam never to be released. I mean I'd say it's quite a portion.

Consoles are where real fresh blood will come from, and be able to sell at premium prices. The other issue is that SC as it stands can never become mainstream because its system requirements are far too high- only via console will you break out of that. Games like Half Life were so popular because they were so flexible and worked on nearly everything going. SC (and EDO sadly, to a lesser extent) require really beefy hardware. If the requirements were lower, more people would play and less milking would be needed. But as it stands only a very niche group can really ever enjoy SC as it was meant to be.

These days most consoles have SSDs in them, honestly the only issue really would be with RAM. SC is currently an unoptimized mess but all in all System Requirements apart from the 32 gigs of RAM really aren't high at all. Playing at a consistant 25-30 fps on a 1050ti, R5 3600, and 16GB of RAM. The PS5 for example has a better CPU than me, Graphics most likely outclass my 1050TI aswell. But it does have an NVME SSD and 16GB of RAM. SC on consoles wouldn't be an issue if they'd optimize the rendering engine (which they are doing) and the RAM consumption.

But thats not good planning. S42 was supposed to be the main game and SC the offshoot based on S42 sales IIRC. It would validate why CiG went with CryEngine, because S42 would be in essence Crysis 42 and a CoD Infinite Warfare several years before IW.

It still is. Squadron is basically Chris' magnum opus, the PU is merely the testing grounds for Squadron features.

Whats happened is CR has smelled the money and radically changed his plan to the point where SC is the game and S42 is some curio. I mean, if you can sell a ship for $1000 thats 50 base S42 game sales (that is 1000 / 20 Dollars).

He did. And for the time being SC is the money making machine keeping the whole thing afloat, while he really only mostly cares about Squadron.

 

[Xink]

It's a pledge anyway so you're not "buying" the ship.

You've spelled "sale" incorrectly.

Ship sales are digital goods sales or pre-orders with VAT added on top. Stop perpetuating this "pledge" myth that has been debunked a million times over and in the courts no less. Donations do not carry VAT.

As an example, if you go to a certain website that lets you "support your favourite content creators" and "pledge" for supporting someone and get some digital content in return, you do not get charged VAT. Because you are not buying goods but making a donation to someone for creating content. On the CIG cash shop otoh you are buying goods and get charged VAT, have a statutory period during which you can return said goods no questions asked for a refund and so forth.

 

[Ebob]

CIG haven't released anything, the current project has gone on for 10 years with nothing released ever, squadron 42 has already been delayed several times, yet based on this track record you think chances of them releasing a finished product this time is very high?

Yes. Simply because Squadron was delayed because it sucked. If they're gonna release something, they're gonna do it right.

How exactly is this "make or break"? They'll just sell more imaginary ships to ever more gullible backers, and new ones who are just starting out on the long wait, they probably will delay it and continue on exactly as they have been doing for the last ten years. I can't see any break point here, I mean it's just another delay more like it!

Gullible whales don't last forever, good games do. Especially if they're gonna massively ramp up their running costs with that new manchester studio.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Look at IGN videos on SC and you'll see most of the comments proclaiming scam scam scam never to be released. I mean I'd say it's quite a portion.

I'm talking about potential new customers coming in cold and that forums / gaming websites are not as representative as people make out.

These days most consoles have SSDs in them, honestly the only issue really would be with RAM. SC is currently an unoptimized mess but all in all System Requirements apart from the 32 gigs of RAM really aren't high at all. Playing at a consistant 25-30 fps on a 1050ti, R5 3600, and 16GB of RAM. The PS1 for example has a better CPU than me, Graphics most likely outclass my 1050TI aswell. But it does have an NVME SSD and 16GB of RAM. SC on consoles wouldn't be an issue if they'd optimize the rendering engine (which they are doing) and the RAM consumption.

We will have to see if SC can ever get stable enough to go onto consoles- the updates (just as EDO is doing) prevent that, but the other question is how MS and Sony would react to such a heavily monetised game. Are there other games on consoles that allow such high purchases?

It still is. Squadron is basically Chris' magnum opus, the PU is merely the testing grounds for Squadron features.

Sorry, I don't buy that at all. As I explained, IW was essentially what Crysis 42 should have been, and could have been done in CryEngine quite easily. Its only because scope creep has bloated things out of control, and that because of the time delay between production and release everything needs refactoring. For example, CE was the engine of the moment, but now is a niche player in an Unreal world.

He did. And for the time being SC is the money making machine keeping the whole thing afloat, while he really only mostly cares about Squadron.

That money making is back to why people have such a negative view. If S42 had been made in a realistic time and to an entertaining enough standard CiG could have funded SC from actual game sales and not jpegs / half functional ships.

 

[varonica]

Yes. Simply because Squadron was delayed because it sucked. If they're gonna release something, they're gonna do it right.

Gullible whales don't last forever, good games do. Especially if they're gonna massively ramp up their running costs with that new manchester studio.

Again, you're not addressing the question, it comes down to this, what makes you think this time it will be different? And no, good games don't last forever, good games last as long as they last, but gullible people will always exist!

 

[Ebob]

We will have to see if SC can ever get stable enough to go onto consoles- the updates (just as EDO is doing) prevent that, but the other question is how MS and Sony would react to such a heavily monetised game.

3.16 has been the most stable patch ever, no 30ks, no disconnects, no crashes. It certainly can get very stable.

Are there other games on consoles that allow such high purchases?

FIFA comes to mind, some of those player cards can set you back a thousand dollars

Sorry, I don't buy that at all. As I explained, IW was essentially what Crysis 42 should have been, and could have been done in CryEngine quite easily. Its only because scope creep has bloated things out of control, and that because of the time delay between production and release everything needs refactoring. For example, CE was the engine of the moment, but now is a niche player in an Unreal world.
That money making is back to why people have such a negative view. If S42 had been made in a realistic time and to an entertaining enough standard CiG could have funded SC from actual game sales and not jpegs / half functional ships.

Perhaps, then again there's the question how good does it need to be to make lots of money?

 

[Ebob]

Again, you're not addressing the question, it comes down to this, what makes you think this time it will be different? And no, good games don't last forever, good games last as long as they last, but gullible people will always exist!

They've not released anything, wether it's "this time" is totally irrelevant, i'm saying WHEN they release it, it will need to be absolutely perfect. The delays have a reason.

 

[thistle]

Gullible whales don't last forever, good games do.

Which is why they need to rely on the former as long as possible.

If SC wasn't a scam predatory and exploitative, they would stop the whale farming and just announce okay, we are going to finish the game, we have all this cash, we're not going to keep adding new features, lets get the game(s) out and prove we are to be trusted with all this cash.

But, you know.

 

[thistle]

i mean, of course that wouldn't work, they don't have the cash. Any more.

 

[LittleAnt]

Looks very pretty. Sounds like a total pain though:

Sick of the Atmospheric Bounties being 300km away - Star Citizen Spectrum

Sick of the Atmospheric Bounties being 300km away. When you accept a bounty that is on a planet there are no close QT travel points

robertsspaceindustries.com

... a pain perhaps when you don't know how to play the game.
QT and U key are your friends.
I guess you don't know it too.

 

[Ebob]

Which is why they need to rely on the former as long as possible.

If SC wasn't a scam predatory and exploitative

If you still think it's a scam now, then I don't think I can change your mind in any way, but, elaborate on the whole exploitative thing. I mean sure it's predatory with the FOMO tactics and "sale almost over" but how is it exploitative? You're not forced to buy anything to progress in the game as you can just earn everything with normal credits.

they would stop the whale farming and just announce okay, we are going to finish the game, we have all this cash

400 million raked in over a decade isn't all that much for sizeable gamedev studios.

we're not going to keep adding new features

What's the last completely new feature they've added that wasn't spoken about in some comm link back in the day?
Also, choose one:

SC has no content, there is nothing being developed!

Stop adding new features!

 

[Xink]

WHEN they release it

If.

 

[Ebob]

i mean, of course that wouldn't work, they don't have the cash. Any more.

Bankwupt soon I reckon?

 

[Ebob]

If.

There is no "if" to that question. They're gonna release something. Period. If it's the full game or a dumbed down version is the question, but there is absolutely no question that they're gonna release something eventually.

 

[Xink]

You have faith the re-incarnation of Digital Anvil, co-founded by Chris Roberts, Erin Roberts and Tony Zurovec among others, will release a game, any game, at any time this century.

Sure.