Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[VR Golgot]

Traditional reminder that ToW is a wee bit late...

Original announcement:

"Early next year I want to go to evocati. And early next year I want to get it out... So I want to get you guys into it early next year." [Nov 2019]

Later back-pedalling:

"Firstly when Sean T mentioned at CitCon that is was coming in 6 months – and I totally understand the confusion – he meant coming to Evo/PTU audience as we always planned to give it a longer runway"

 

[Mole HD]

So, is there any sort of atmospheric flight model (at the very least, drag), or is it just simplistic handwavium ignore the atmosphere everything is like space model?

All I would say is that the ships fly kinda 'different' in atmo, I'll leave the interpretation of that description up to you...

Rather old Terada video...can't find any Hard flying vids from 3.16 or 3.17 with the newer flight model since he's been kinda quiet of late...still love the techno track on this

Ooo!...And there's nice flames n' stuff on atmo entry

 

[metatheurgist]

So, is there any sort of atmospheric flight model (at the very least, drag), or is it just simplistic handwavium ignore the atmosphere everything is like space model?

Your ship might get blown away by a strong breeze.

 

[StuartGT]

Your ship might get blown away by a strong breeze.

While you stand next to it and watch

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Oh, bye Firesprite...

Roadmap Roundup April 27 2022



Holy christ the poor vehicle team. Now they have to do boats and ToW?

Arena Commander Feature Team

How is a 'tech' team suddenly a 'feature' team? And designing a Battlefield clone?

EDIT:

Confirmation that Firesprite collaborate no more. And that all the above are now the "Vehicle Tech Team"'s babies...

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/ude385/_/i6ge0ds

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/ude385/roadmap_roundup_april_27_2022/i6ge0ds/

The work with Firesprite has wrapped up and we have transitioned future work to the newly formed Arena Commander Feature Team internally at CIG.

That's a very carefully worded statement to explain that Firesprite dumped them when they got bought out.

Speculation: Sony looked at it, laughed, and said ditch it.

But don't worry, ToW is just a small module that won't take much resources, its practically ready!

And another partnership with a third party bites the dust.

Also, boats, lol. We knew it was going to happen eventually. There was no way Chris was going to let boats not be done.

Buy a submarine!

 

[varonica]

So, is there any sort of atmospheric flight model (at the very least, drag), or is it just simplistic handwavium ignore the atmosphere everything is like space model?

The fact that ship weighting hundreds of tons can get blown around while on the ground I am surprised that a stiff breeze while they are flying doesn't just blow them wherever it want to! That's a flight model right?

 

[VR Golgot]

That's a very carefully worded statement to explain that Firesprite dumped them when they got bought out.

Speculation: Sony looked at it, laughed, and said ditch it.

But don't worry, ToW is just a small module that won't take much resources, its practically ready!

And another partnership with a third party bites the dust.

Yeah definitely trying to make it sound nice and normal. Sounds like the contract ran out and wasn't renewed either way. (Pretty suggestive that ToW was either meant to be out by now, or Firesprite was meant to keep plugging away but Sony have pulled the plug).

Also, boats, lol. We knew it was going to happen eventually. There was no way Chris was going to let boats not be done.

Buy a submarine!

Yeah that was kinda the joke entry

The vehicle tech guys do have a load of much delayed, much desired stuff on their slate though. The Hull C, ship modularity, life support 'room tech', stuff like that.

I hope they're getting a big old injection of new devs...

 

[VR Golgot]

Illfonic and guess Firesprite is highly probable to follow the same path

Ahhh, early prediction awards!

(That was quick )

I'd love an extensive summary of what she said (and the accompanying fact-checking).

Found the whole thing too painful to drill through, but SA have dragged out the key beats:

I particularly enjoyed the retcon of the development start date. Apparently 2015 no less according to her.

These presentation at the Bafta awards in Jan 2015, and all the previous development work leading to it, never happened oc:

Then the awkward silence when the guy on the left says that SQ42 must be about to drop, expecting Sandi to nod or confirm. Cringe even. Also the non committal answer to the question about who came up with the idea of selling ship jpgs, rofl. She could not say it was her because that is too obvious a lie for CIG peers, but she won´t admit it was Ben either.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sth_Rfygkbc&t=876s

EDIT:

Here are some time stamps for the bits they mean. The key thing is the 2015 one though:

• The 'real' start of development: 2015 [14m39s]

So a really common misconception that I think you could probably clear up for people is every time you look at something in the media they'll go this game's in been in development for 10 years. To your recollection when do you think development actually really started? Because I know how few people you were the next day after Kickstarter. How long did it really kind of take to get you guys to get stuff the ball rolling essentially?

I mean, you know, if you consider, if you call just Chris development, that's one, you know, that's one timeline. If you call a handful of people development for, for a game as big as Star Citizen, you know, I don't know if that really aligns. I think the actual real alignment of what we're developing today didn't really start until we had the UK office

What year was that?

I want to say 2015. I think it was around 2015.

My recollection, I thought it kind of kicked off when Frankfurt came in and i think they were 2014. I could be wrong.

Yeah like around that, at like the end of 2014, the start of 2015.

• SQ42 soon? [17m27s]
• Who came up with idea of selling ships? [13m16s]

Bonus bit:

"I don't like to promise things that I don't deliver.... In all the other things I've marketed I know how to call out problems in the manufacturing..." [12m45s]

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Ahhh, early prediction awards!

(That was quick )



Found the whole thing too painful to drill through, but SA have dragged out the key beats:



EDIT:

Here are some time stamps for the bits they mean. The key thing is the 2015 one though:

• The 'real' start of development: 2015 [14m39s]

• SQ42 soon? [17m27s]
• Who came up with idea of selling ships? [13m16s]

Bonus bit:

"I don't like to promise things that I don't deliver.... In all the other things I've marketed I know how to call out problems in the manufacturing..." [12m45s]

Sandi's utter non-reaction to SQ42 being released soon. Priceless.

 

[Cotic]

Ahhh, early prediction awards!

(That was quick )



Found the whole thing too painful to drill through, but SA have dragged out the key beats:



EDIT:

Here are some time stamps for the bits they mean. The key thing is the 2015 one though:

• The 'real' start of development: 2015 [14m39s]

• SQ42 soon? [17m27s]
• Who came up with idea of selling ships? [13m16s]

Bonus bit:

"I don't like to promise things that I don't deliver.... In all the other things I've marketed I know how to call out problems in the manufacturing..." [12m45s]

This is so funny. It's just a rewording of what the fanboys say, (building the company/changing the scope) and I swear that happens a lot. The fans defend something with some bizarro logic and then CIG spokespeople start using the same logic. I would not be surprised if there is some thought about this given their marketing tactics. It makes the fans feel like they are all on the same page and CIG do it because they know these kooks will pony up more money because of it.

All the things they had released and were working on and showing off cannot be retconned.
They had released the hangar, Arena Commander, Murray Cup, numerous ships, their components, the voyager store, and were working on various other things like Star Marine (v1), ArcCorp and all that stuff they were showing off in their daily videos. But none of that is relevant because Star Citizen today is different than what it was in 2014

So just change the scope next year and then say development didn't start until 2023 because the game now is different than 2022 and we needed to fill the studio at Manchester...

 

[Surefoot]

So, is there any sort of atmospheric flight model (at the very least, drag), or is it just simplistic handwavium ignore the atmosphere everything is like space model?

There's no real "drag" as a lot of ships would not be able to fly like they do, and some others would just flip around because of their shape. There are two effects only: an artificial speed limit that's lower in denser atmo, and some kind of turn resistance at speed. Air stream is not simulated nor is shape, compression effects, lift, or actual aero drag. So while atmo is not ignored entirely, it's just as basic as their space model. (edit) also actual aero parts (seen on some ships) do absolutely nothing - they are not moving (since shape does not affect drag) or not contributing to lift or drag reduction etc.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Oh dear....

Server performance doesn’t effect client performance at all. This myth has been around for so long purely because they tend to be correlated, i.e. if the server is dealing with 50 spaceships in an area then the clients are probably dealing with a good percentage of them too (depending on locality). But there’s no direct link, and if you had a “super“ computer the frame rate would be unlimited/unbound.

Spectrum - v7.17.1

RSI’s Spectrum is our integrated community and player interaction service, including chat, forums, game integration, and Player Organization facilities. Player Organizations (“Org”...

robertsspaceindustries.com

How many times have we been assured by the faithful that once server performance is sorted client performance will improve?

A cause of correlation not being equal to causation.

I'd love to see some backpedaling on excuses from certain parties... but they are on my block list.

He further clarifies.

I’m taking about frame rate. The client never waits on the server to proceed with the update/render of a frame.

It however is entirely plausible that some game code (like enabling QT) could be programmed to be server authorative and need to wait on the server confirming an action before proceeding with some other gameplay logic (eg starting QT) and exhibit a form of lag/delay, but at no point will execution of code or rendering slow down.

But wait, a faithful jumps in to save the day!

i'm sorry but you're wrong, i have tested with a server of 50 people on a server and test with 10 people and gotten better fps, regardless of where the players are on the server. as im being at 0,0,0 cord.... i have test even on the same servers when the server dies out over time. it stops people from joining said server and becomes more and more stable and higher FPS, so i would LOVE to see your proof on this matter with 50 real time players on the same server and 10 real time players on the same server. i would love to see your proof on this matter other then just (your word) its as if the CIG does not even play there own game to know this.

So, the amateur devs among the faithful are accusing the devs of spreading FUD!

That's a power play right there!

 

[Old Duck]

There's no real "drag" as a lot of ships would not be able to fly like they do, and some others would just flip around because of their shape. There are two effects only: an artificial speed limit that's lower in denser atmo, and some kind of turn resistance at speed. Air stream is not simulated nor is shape, compression effects, lift, or actual aero drag. So while atmo is not ignored entirely, it's just as basic as their space model. (edit) also actual aero parts (seen on some ships) do absolutely nothing - they are not moving (since shape does not affect drag) or not contributing to lift or drag reduction etc.

I definitely don't expect Flight Simulator style aerodynamics (not sure how that would work on oddly-shaped spaceships anyway), but it would be nice to feel like there is an atmosphere there, perhaps with turbulence and occasional winds, updrafts, etc. Maybe that is coming later once weather is fully flushed out.

Though I suppose one can handwavium away things like wind. Modern drones use advanced tech to stay surprisingly still in wind gusts IRL, so it isn't that much of a stretch to assume futuristic spaceships do the same.

 

[Xink]

So, is there any sort of atmospheric flight model (at the very least, drag), or is it just simplistic handwavium ignore the atmosphere everything is like space model?

Noclip mode, in space. Some forward momentum thrown in to simulate inertia.

 

[Old Duck]

Your ship might get blown away by a strong breeze.

I remember seeing some video showing this. Is it still a thing?

The fact that ship weighting hundreds of tons can get blown around while on the ground I am surprised that a stiff breeze while they are flying doesn't just blow them wherever it want to! That's a flight model right?

In Space Engineers, the landing gear "lock" to whatever surface you dock on, using magnets or some other "grabby tech". If you turn off this locking feature, a ship can take tumble if parked on an uneven surface, but it's not the dramatic flip over like a cardboard box as seen in the video I reference above.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

So, is there any sort of atmospheric flight model (at the very least, drag), or is it just simplistic handwavium ignore the atmosphere everything is like space model?

From my experience of plodding around in the back of my friends ships as gunner or what not, there is definitely at least a difference in fuel consumption and the way the 'craft feels as a passenger when you're in atmos or vacuum.

 

[VR Golgot]

Your ship might get blown away by a strong breeze.

I remember seeing some video showing this. Is it still a thing?

Sure, here's one from the other day...

And * poof *, it appears...

 

[Surefoot]

I remember seeing some video showing this. Is it still a thing?

Yes, that's integral to the core game engine.

I definitely don't expect Flight Simulator style aerodynamics (not sure how that would work on oddly-shaped spaceships anyway), but it would be nice to feel like there is an atmosphere there, perhaps with turbulence and occasional winds, updrafts, etc. Maybe that is coming later once weather is fully flushed out.

Oh there are winds but they affect your ship only a little when in flight, you'll see a bit of drifting when landing. Nothing special there though, it's mostly faked as again whichever direction you face is not really important. And while I would certainly not expect MSFS level of simulation, having a KSP-like model with proper drag for example would be neat. Brick shaped ships would then fly as expected, and properly aero ships would get an advantage (higher top speeds, tighter turns, aero braking..). That's not the case at all, as of today.

Though I suppose one can handwavium away things like wind. Modern drones use advanced tech to stay surprisingly still in wind gusts IRL, so it isn't that much of a stretch to assume futuristic spaceships do the same.

Even really heavy ships get affected by the wind (on Microtech), even tough their small manoeuver thrusters are able to provide infinitely sharp accelerations - so that's a baked in effect (= faked) not a proper physics reaction.

 

[Intrepid3D]

All I would say is that the ships fly kinda 'different' in atmo, I'll leave the interpretation of that description up to you...

Rather old Terada video...can't find any Hard flying vids from 3.16 or 3.17 with the newer flight model since he's been kinda quiet of late...still love the techno track on this

Ooo!...And there's nice flames n' stuff on atmo entry

Desync, the last couple of builds had horrible desync, what you were seeing on your screen wasn't necessarily the same as what others were seeing, or the server, so it just wasn't possible to fly 5 meters off the deck 3 meters away from your mate at 200+ meters per second.

That Desync, for many different reasons is one of the most complained about things, they have put in a fix for it in 3.17 and it seems to be working.

Source: https://youtu.be/-Y18N3p41ss?t=163

 

[LTNTDan]

So, is there any sort of atmospheric flight model (at the very least, drag), or is it just simplistic handwavium ignore the atmosphere everything is like space model?

There is certainly a noticeable difference between flying in space and in atmosphere. Specially the more bulky the ships are.

BlackMaze (Former CMDR turned Citizen racing pilot) goes into great detail about the flight model (and other aspects of the game) in his "Why Play Elite" series:

He also runs a group dedicated to racing group similar like the one he had in Elite.

Meanwhile, if you want more feedback from an Elite players perspective I'd say Kate's "An Elite CMDR plays Star Citizen" series nicely:

Both those Youtubers alone have tons of videos with feedback and information of as "new players" joining Star Citizen.
Should be easy to find, they started more or less after Odyssey launched.