Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[n4p0l3on]

Yes my tolerance and the tolerance of a lot of backers are insanely high for this project. That's the main thing you don't understand from us : we have no other choice offered. The main reason why I am insanely tolerant is because there is no other project like SC that I can buy/fund in the gaming industry atm that try to do such a game. If I want to fund now another project with such a scope, I can't, there is not one with : space+planets+beautiful graphics+ships with walkable interiors+dogfight+flight in space+flight atmo+EVA+FPS+FPS combats+Trade+Delivery+Roleplay (and some more). This list is the SOLE reason why I am insanely patient and funding CIG. I am 50 years old and will be still able to game perhaps for the 20 next years. What can I do if I want to play such a game ? Wait the next 20 years to see if EA or Epic will make such a game ? Not one chance to see it coming in near future from the AAA game industry when a project of the scope of SC can only be done by the AAA game industry.
Just give me a link to another project with this scope and I will give it the double I gave to SC just to have a good competitor to SC.
It's one of the reason I bought Elite with the Odyssey's announcement. Having a good competitor to CIG is good for both CIG and FDev. I know FDev will not check all points in my list of features but I dream they will check enough of them for me to enjoy Odyssey like I enjoy the actual SC alpha.

here's what really happened...

Crobber conned you with the promise of heaven, that's simply cannot exist because all signs and evidences point out that he couldn't make one despite his claim that he could.

but no, you drank the kool aid instead, proven by nonsense like what you and/or others said that such bartender AI is something of a news worthy thing for this project here in 2020, 8 years after the original false gospel... we already have space game AI that allowed "living universe" in games like X series since the 2000s, and it's not limited to space game AI either, games like Mount and Blade have such AI, so does many grand strategy/4x games.

that bartender AI is a joke for 2020 no matter what games you're talking about, it's ludicrous to use it as proof and hope that Crobber is going to deliver even just on AI/simulated universe aspect of the game somehow despite already getting 8 years to work on it.

the expectation should be that Crobber can demonstrate AI in his game that can compete with something like X4 today in 2020, this is not even remotely unfair of sort, he and his team have been touting Subsumption whatever since what... 2014 or something, and also he's supposedly also needed the AI to make Squadron works, something that supposedly out in 2014 in the first place. that he and his team could only demonstrate bartender AI today is beyond absurd to be taken as a positive sign that everything about the project is going well.

and what's more, that bartender AI? if I had to bet, that's something even amateurs and garage indie game developers could do in a month or something relatively short time working with stock Cryengine.

and as for your heavenly dream game? there are valid technical reasons why it cannot be done because the overall technology level is not there yet, you're basically dreaming of a game that need technology level close to star trek holodeck.

and once more, the game in your dream is far more viable as a single player game, but guess what again? evidently Crobber himself couldn't deliver it, such a game is totally Freelancer 2, well within reachable target for the Squadron game, yet it also does NOT exist, despite all the money, efforts, also all the smokes and mirros and the theatricals that have been shown in 8 years.

 

[sovapid]

Pretty sure the person who did it said as part of CIGs argument (that may not have been in court, it may have been part of their letters between lawyers) that they claimed they had released a product.

I'll poke firefly on reddit, i think it was him.

It was firefly.

Well, fireflyXXX. Where the XXX are numbers, he uses different numbers in different places.

 

[Ed02349]

Guys, it sounds like you're trying to convert LittleAnt over.

1. If SQ42 is a complete failure proving that CIG doesn't know how to release a full working game.
2. If CIG stop completely to develop the game for several patch.
3. If SC give me less and less fun after several patchs to the point that I prefer playing to another game.
4. If a new game is better than the current SC alpha (Odyssey for instance). I'm sure I will not play SC when Cyberpunk will be out until I finish this game.
5. Some others I don't think atm.

I don't see me as an evangelist. If I am at the evangelist level here, several people here would be considered at the hater level. But I don't see haters here.
To become a skeptic, the points 1 to 3 above.
I just own an Aurora, nothing to sell.

1. You wouldn't be tested there because chances are SQ 42 will be canceled before they show anything significant progress.
2. By that point the scam is already over and he's ran away with your money. nothing you can do about it.
3. Possible, but by qualifying 'fun' you gave yourself a galaxy wide get out of jail free card because it's subjective, and can only ever be measured by you.
4. Same subjectivity as SC but the question what your breaking point, if a new game that looks better than SC is all that would break your faithin SC then you're not being honest here or haven't thought about it properly.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I don't see me as an evangelist. If I am at the evangelist level here, several people here would be considered at the hater level. But I don't see haters here.
To become a skeptic, the points 1 to 3 above.
I just own an Aurora, nothing to sell.

It's enough when we see you as the fervent evangelist you are. There is no need for agreement by your side.

 

[LittleAnt]

It's enough when we see you as the fervent evangelist you are. There is no need for agreement by your side.

I understand. I'm alone here with a dissonant voice, that's enough to call me an evangelist. And I understand too that can be annoying for you, I am a bit "out of context" here.
I'll try to talk less about my feelings and opinions about SC and just give some descriptions of the improvements of the game. I will also reduce my interventions on this forum. I don't want to be seen as an evangelist.

 

[Sunyavadin]

From my point of view, Star Citizen is currently choking off any potential for a similar game to rise up and take its place. Anyone interested in trying to do so is going to look at its current market share, and think that there's no room for growth there. Only when this project is taken off life support, can another game try to take its place. It'll take time, but someone will be willing to try, given how Star Citizen has proven that there is a market for this kind of game. Hopefully, when the time comes, whoever makes the attempt will learn the right lessons from Star Citizen's failure, as well as the missteps from the other early pioneers in this genre, and make an awesome game.

But that won't happen until Star Citizen stops being the kudzu of this genre.

I dunno, right now I imagine there's enough blood in the water that I'm genuinely surprised no sharks have moved in already, all it'd take is for one AAA publisher to assign a project like this to a studio with a proven track record of delivering most of the systems CIG are promising, and then to dump a few million into the project, with a xmas 2022 deadline, and it'd STILL probably hit the market before SC delivers on all of this, and be able to hoover up money from folks who are so invested in playing something like this, mostly uncontested.

 

[Skizomeuh]

Better play dough with a Kg of semtex. The publisher stupid enough to take the project and put whatever effort into making it viable will be blamed by the faithful for any flaw, because of course "if Chris was kept in charge it'd have ended perfect!". No, succesful or dead this project must stay Chris' responsibility till the end. No way he should escape from this.

 

[govny]

they seem insistent on reinventing the round wheel as a square wheel and then making all the roads have 90 degee dips in them in order to let cars roll on them to achieve the same effect that you'd have by using a round wheel in the first place.

maybe CR have seen this:

 

[Tippis]

Sometimes in this forum, I feel like I am in the old meme "quit having fun"...

Oh for crying out loud. Do you have anything other than this trite old nonsense “oh woe is me I'm being victimised” shtick whenever you fail to come up with anything sensible or coherent to say in response to what people are saying to you?

You know full well that no-one has suggested anything of the kind, so no, you do not feel that way. I say that with absolute certainty.

How about this: every time you mention your “fun” as it were a factor in what's the other person was saying, we get to reinterpret that as you implicitly saying “ok, I can't argue with that but I refuse to acknowledge that you're right”. Deal?

I understand. I'm alone here with a dissonant voice,

Not even close. It's just that you have a very strong fondness for painting yourself as the poor oppressed victim, even if you have to ignore vast portions of what's actually being aid in the thread for that to make even the slightest bit of sense.

 

[sovapid]

I dunno, right now I imagine there's enough blood in the water that I'm genuinely surprised no sharks have moved in already, all it'd take is for one AAA publisher to assign a project like this to a studio with a proven track record of delivering most of the systems CIG are promising, and then to dump a few million into the project, with a xmas 2022 deadline, and it'd STILL probably hit the market before SC delivers on all of this, and be able to hoover up money from folks who are so invested in playing something like this, mostly uncontested.

Starbase and Dual Universe.

 

[EUS]

Haven't tryed the new system yet but it seems you can also select any target (front and behind) just by clicking on it on the radar.

A video where the bartender works well

Bartender Star Citizen - Create, Discover and Share Awesome GIFs on Gfycat

Watch and share Star Citizen GIFs and Bartender GIFs on Gfycat

gfycat.com

Jeebus, usage: 21gigs of ram, 90%GPU (card unknown), and 70% CPU usage (cpu unknown) just to play "give me a drink"?

 

[LittleAnt]

Oh for crying out loud. Do you have anything other than this trite old nonsense “oh woe is me I'm being victimised” shtick whenever you fail to come up with anything sensible or coherent to say in response to what people are saying to you?
...

I am not oppressed here and I don'f feel so. I will be most factual and constructive in my future posts. No more mention to my fun in the alpha.

 

[ZeeWolf]

I understand. I'm alone here with a dissonant voice, that's enough to call me an evangelist. And I understand too that can be annoying for you, I am a bit "out of context" here.
I'll try to talk less about my feelings and opinions about SC and just give some descriptions of the improvements of the game. I will also reduce my interventions on this forum. I don't want to be seen as an evangelist.

If CIG were to release the game the backers/fans might feel less inclined to defend it where it really ought to be the develolpers job to make the product good enough to take critisim. It would/should stand on it's own merits.

It's one of my biggest bugbears with the project, the perpetual Alpha makes it consumer review proof and that's wrong

 

[Ed02349]

I dunno, right now I imagine there's enough blood in the water that I'm genuinely surprised no sharks have moved in already, all it'd take is for one AAA publisher to assign a project like this to a studio with a proven track record of delivering most of the systems CIG are promising, and then to dump a few million into the project, with a xmas 2022 deadline, and it'd STILL probably hit the market before SC delivers on all of this, and be able to hoover up money from folks who are so invested in playing something like this, mostly uncontested.

I think they saw how SC faithful react to anything similar to SC and figured it's not worth the tribal attacks.

 

[Surefoot]

Starbase and Dual Universe.

They're both being developed by very competent people, in the case of Dual Universe with a novel approach to MMO dynamic instancing. But they are not open beta (or alpha) in either case, so i'd reserve my judgement until i can test them on my own PC... Delays will happen, i would not hold my breath for a 2022 release. Infinity Battlescape though, this i have tested, and runs extremely well even with very high concurrent player counts, all in the same place, firing at each other.

As for the case of "AI" in SC: turns out i'm an AI engineer. We have a saying, "AI is tomorrow's dream, never what is implemented today". It's been true for the last 70 years or so since Turing founded the discipline. So what would i expect from CiG ? Basic path finding, workable pre-scripted NPC behaviours that give a hint of life to the universe, and that's it. Gothic 2 did it perfectly. Would i expect proper neural networks and genetic algorithms in SC ? never i didnt back that project for that. It's clearly out of scope even for the BDSSE... So everytime i see CiG obviously spending millions in "bartender AI" i cringe, both because the term is overblown in that particular case, and because it's highly unnecessary. It's also infuriating to see them spending so much on what turns out to be said basic scripting and path finding.

Side note: yes these newer chess AI (and go, even more so) are true AI in that they arent given any way to evaluate a solution path to the problem (that's called heuristics), but only the rules of the game and of course winning conditions. AlphaGo / AlphaZero / Leela / etc. are truly adaptative, as they could put the same engine on Starcraft or Mario and it would respectively beat the world champions and find those cheating map bypasses. Some matches from Leela or AlphaZero are quite impressive in that way, they wont even bother finding the "perfect" path to victory and allow themselves to troll their opponent (a few Leela matches exhibit that behaviour) as winning in chess or go is an absolute condition (there's no "points" given for a larger victory for instance, it's either win / lose / draw). It's so interesting to see these matches as they do exhibit human-like behaviours, that "classic" chess engines (entirely based on heuristics and tree branching predictions) do not, typically the engines will make very obscure moves that pay out 30 moves later, while the neural nets will have a more "intuitive" or "fluid" play. They also win over the engines by beating the heuristic functions that Stockfish et al. use to evaluate the board. Would i expect this kind of AI coming into video games ? Maybe in turn based games, but its way overkill for real time shooters for instance. On RTS games such as Starcraft, they do work but too well, that would be a really frustrating experience to try and play against them as a regular player.

 

[sovapid]

They're both being developed by very competent people, in the case of Dual Universe with a novel approach to MMO dynamic instancing. But they are not open beta (or alpha) in either case, so i'd reserve my judgement until i can test them on my own PC... Delays will happen, i would not hold my breath for a 2022 release. Infinity Battlescape though, this i have tested, and runs extremely well even with very high concurrent player counts, all in the same place, firing at each other.

close.........

although could always get delayed.

DU BETA ARRIVES AUGUST 27 AT $6.99 ACCESSIBLE SUBSCRIPTION
The Beta launches Aug 27th alongside the much-anticipated NDA drop!

Dual Universe

www.dualthegame.com

 

[LittleAnt]

Test of the new body dragging mechanics

Improved lightning engine

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/hstkk6

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/hstkk6/this_is_why_i_love_this_sim_310_lighting_check/

 

[Tippis]

Is nonsensical and looks like crap.
Yup, that's a SC attempt at something, alright.

 

[sovapid]

Test of the new body dragging mechanics

How do you plan on using this in game? What are you looking forward to doing with this in 3.10?

 

[LittleAnt]

New enter effect for big ship.
Effect seen from distance one another ship at 0:34. The occuling distance has been greatly increased for 3.10

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/hsgsin