Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12
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Yes SC's monetizing model would never work with foundation tech first basis. What could perhaps work out, is to do it Fdevs way, publish game with smaller pieces and keep adding stuff in DLC's. So something okay, we make pretty basic PvP shooter first. Next installment adds capability for more players, some basic game loops and so on. But the way it is currently done, will quite likely never give viable product that is actual playeably published game. But well if we take position that game company's purpose is not primarily to make games and earn money, but it is to make money and possibly publish game eventually, CiG's way really works. Though not for customers.
I asked what people though of the game, not Sandi Gardiner or Chris Roberts, i'm no fan of either. The internet is already full of criticism of those two, none of it is new to me, i was hoping to get your perspectives on the game, perhaps i'm asking for too much.
Is there a game? Or is there eternal alpha tech demo? I will say my opinion of SC the game when it becomes published game. As long as it is just project one really cannot review it as a game.
I have thousands of hours in it, people do play it so i guess yes.
I see a lot of [CMDR] prefixes in peoples names in the in game general chat so i figured there are ED players who also play SC, perhaps they just wouldn't post in here.
So you would not object if say some games magazine makes review of SC and uses same standards as is used for published games? Likely end results is one star and "not recommended".
Not at all, i have seen reviews at both ends of the spectrum, they all make good points.
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Elite Dangerous fan, and long time Star Citizen fan here, backed in Feb 2013.
Without wanting to throw a grenade into this, what do people here actually think of Star Citizen? i like both these games, i don't see them as competitors, they are different enough that there is room for both.
I'll give an explanation of what i think of it laterit has its good points and its bad points.
Star Citizen is a nice idea. I, like many others, backed this thing right off the bat, when it wasn't just an idea, but what looked to be a tenuable game, lead by someone capable of making it. Over time, you get a bit weary, and wow, info on this someone comes up. Turns out maybe not so capable after all. But maybe the game is still doable. Then after a couple years past promised dates, that were given, and which I'll come back to, you see roadmaps, etc, which seem good at first, but ultimately lead to issues. First year of a roadmap, all looks good. Second year, you see things missed. Third, now you see patterns. Then you realize maybe this thing isn't going to be made and whether or not it's doable, it's apparent it wont be this group that does it. And so while this started with it being a possible game, Star Citizen has reverted to just being a nice idea which was a good point at the start, but everyone has nice ideas, so thats no big deal.
This may be the only gaming forum where stating you've logged thousands of hours in a game, is sooo 2 years ago. Although, we've spent thousands of hours in a game, not just a rodamap to an alpha. What is the actual state of this thing you've spent thousands of hours in, by the way? Any idea? You realize that usually games tested in some form of pre-release get wiped, as if none of that mattered, yes? If SC ever goes to Alpha, or whatever the next state they're going to, those thousands of hours are nothing. Speaking of thousands of hours, Im sure many in here, even though we seem to slight SC or be at odds with it, have spent hundreds of hours trying to get the f*ing thing to work, you know? Next you're going to suggest why dont we just try it, for f*ck sakes.
You're already enjoying SC as it is. Have you met Little Ant? Are you Little Ant? He stated he is happy with it as it is too, which is great. That's actually not the issue, for me, anyways. If it runs for you, and is good enough for you, then it's probably good enough for a lot of people, myself included if I could get it to run longer than 5 minutes. But where is it then? Whyt not release whats playable, and then add to it?
Remember I said I'd come back to the promised dates? Some things we'll never know, but I've always had the feeling ED was released a bit too early, but it was definitively released before the date SC was 'supposed' to be released. There was DB and FDev, just like any of us, buying into the notion that SC is going to release within 2 years. DB and FDev realize that that isnt doable for everything, so they break their game up...but, they released it. Only seated in a ship but something you can buy and, though many gripes and complaints, is a playable game. So after all this time, the only thing CR was able to do was make DB flinch. But instead of flinch and run away, DB is not doing too bad with ED as it is, and that was under the notion that we'd always ever only be seated in that ship. But now with Odyssey, you realize they've been working towards completing all the goals from their kickstarter, and are. And now there's less things needed to complete their kickstarter, actually. I have no doubt now that they will obviously release ship interiors, have full planets we can fly down to, and you can go hunting or animal sight seeing as DB mentioned he'd like to be able to do, many years ago.
But alas, there's only one thing that'll please those folks who hold onto this one item as the "thing". Being able to stand up from your seat. Hilarious, that that is considered neccessary gameplay, but it is.
[sarcasm time] Being able to sit down, is the only thing that makes a game a game. Fade to black? What? Thats not a game. For an example of a real game, when I play GTA, that is a real driving game because I can get in and out of the car. Asseto Corsa? You cant even open the door! LOLOLOL thats not a game! Thats not a driving simulator! Can you even turn on the wiper blades? Oh lol, nice try! Farming Simulator? Amazeballs! I can get in and out of the tractor. MSFS? You have to cheat to make it seem like your camera is walking along the ground. Thats not a simulator! Train World, lol thats not a simlulator, you cant even get out of the train. Oh...wait, you can on that one? Best train simulator out there!
[/sarcasm time]
Is SC good for making cinematic stuffs? Indeed! Is it good for chat and socializing? I'd bet a lot of your fun times in there were, in part, to the ease of communication. When I was able to run SC, a few years ago, that's one thing I liked, so a big yes.
Do I like the idea of SC? Yes. Do I think it's doable? Yes, but not by CIG or at least not the direction it's currently in/under.
Do I get entertainment from SC? Only through this thread, and I do like to say a thanks for all these good years of actually really quality stuff
My prediction? In about 2 years, you'll realize you're one of us, as every fan of SC should be. The hopeful, yet weary and stop giving them money for nothing, so they have to release the game, or just go away. My hope is for the first option!
Star Citizen is a nice idea. I, like many others, backed this thing right off the bat, when it wasn't just an idea, but what looked to be a tenuable game, lead by someone capable of making it. Over time, you get a bit weary, and wow, info on this someone comes up. Turns out maybe not so capable after all. But maybe the game is still doable. Then after a couple years past promised dates, that were given, and which I'll come back to, you see roadmaps, etc, which seem good at first, but ultimately lead to issues. First year of a roadmap, all looks good. Second year, you see things missed. Third, now you see patterns. Then you realize maybe this thing isn't going to be made and whether or not it's doable, it's apparent it wont be this group that does it. And so while this started with it being a possible game, Star Citizen has reverted to just being a nice idea which was a good point at the start, but everyone has nice ideas, so thats no big deal.
This may be the only gaming forum where stating you've logged thousands of hours in a game, is sooo 2 years ago. Although, we've spent thousands of hours in a game, not just a rodamap to an alpha. What is the actual state of this thing you've spent thousands of hours in, by the way? Any idea? You realize that usually games tested in some form of pre-release get wiped, as if none of that mattered, yes? If SC ever goes to Alpha, or whatever the next state they're going to, those thousands of hours are nothing. Speaking of thousands of hours, Im sure many in here, even though we seem to slight SC or be at odds with it, have spent hundreds of hours trying to get the f*ing thing to work, you know? Next you're going to suggest why dont we just try it, for f*ck sakes.
You're already enjoying SC as it is. Have you met Little Ant? Are you Little Ant? He stated he is happy with it as it is too, which is great. That's actually not the issue, for me, anyways. If it runs for you, and is good enough for you, then it's probably good enough for a lot of people, myself included if I could get it to run longer than 5 minutes. But where is it then? Whyt not release whats playable, and then add to it?
Remember I said I'd come back to the promised dates? Some things we'll never know, but I've always had the feeling ED was released a bit too early, but it was definitively released before the date SC was 'supposed' to be released. There was DB and FDev, just like any of us, buying into the notion that SC is going to release within 2 years. DB and FDev realize that that isnt doable for everything, so they break their game up...but, they released it. Only seated in a ship but something you can buy and, though many gripes and complaints, is a playable game. So after all this time, the only thing CR was able to do was make DB flinch. But instead of flinch and run away, DB is not doing too bad with ED as it is, and that was under the notion that we'd always ever only be seated in that ship. But now with Odyssey, you realize they've been working towards completing all the goals from their kickstarter, and are. And now there's less things needed to complete their kickstarter, actually. I have no doubt now that they will obviously release ship interiors, have full planets we can fly down to, and you can go hunting or animal sight seeing as DB mentioned he'd like to be able to do, many years ago.
But alas, there's only one thing that'll please those folks who hold onto this one item as the "thing". Being able to stand up from your seat. Hilarious, that that is considered neccessary gameplay, but it is.
[sarcasm time] Being able to sit down, is the only thing that makes a game a game. Fade to black? What? Thats not a game. For an example of a real game, when I play GTA, that is a real driving game because I can get in and out of the car. Asseto Corsa? You cant even open the door! LOLOLOL thats not a game! Thats not a driving simulator! Can you even turn on the wiper blades? Oh lol, nice try! Farming Simulator? Amazeballs! I can get in and out of the tractor. MSFS? You have to cheat to make it seem like your camera is walking along the ground. Thats not a simulator! Train World, lol thats not a simlulator, you cant even get out of the train. Oh...wait, you can on that one? Best train simulator out there!
[/sarcasm time]
Is SC good for making cinematic stuffs? Indeed! Is it good for chat and socializing? I'd bet a lot of your fun times in there were, in part, to the ease of communication. When I was able to run SC, a few years ago, that's one thing I liked, so a big yes.
Do I like the idea of SC? Yes. Do I think it's doable? Yes, but not by CIG or at least not the direction it's currently in/under.
Do I get entertainment from SC? Only through this thread, and I do like to say a thanks for all these good years of actually really quality stuff
My prediction? In about 2 years, you'll realize you're one of us, as every fan of SC should be. The hopeful, yet weary and stop giving them money for nothing, so they have to release the game, or just go away. My hope is for the first option!
Already been playing it for 8 years so i don't think another 2 will make me one of you
I already am. I am hopeful, yet weary, and i haven't put any more of my own money into it for about 3 years.To me everything that gets added from here on is a bonus to me, and i am hoping for more, perhaps the best thing for it at this point is for Chris to give up his micro management of it, let one of the senior devs take over, Brian Chambers maybe?
Thank's for your thoughts.
Crowd funding always has been and continues to be a calculated risk in my opinion. It can be the spark that enables great things to happen but at the same time it can be just another example of throwing money into a pit.
I d like to believe that actual backers (talking about the people who backed throughout the 2012 kickstarter) knew the risks involved but thats them. Everybody who got into Star Citizen afterwards is at best a customer expecting a real return value on his purchase or at worst a sucker who doesnt understand the difference between backer and customer and claims to be something he isnt. Technically there is no difference between the two. Backers have no special or extra rights that suckers do. The only thing that differentiates them IMO is their acknowledgement that their initial investment is lost for no return value at all. It was a calculated risk and if its a duck they are/should be okay with it.
I cannot believe that whoever comes after them, spends thousands of dollars on SC only to have SC tank or not deliver whats expected is okay with all that and doesnt care. They might "say" it but I wouldnt believe it. Often enough the demonstrated behavior points out something more serious than blasé indifference to the whole topic.
That being said crowdfunding is a critical and important tool to enable projects that would otherwise be ignored and overlooked by the people who hold all the power but at the same time whoever participates should be aware of the dangers of crowdfunding. The thing that seperates a crowdfunding risk from a scam is the result. If theres a game or product at the end of the development its at best a failure and at worst a scam and both things are basically the same. Your invested money is gone, you are not getting what you wanted. End of story.
Which of those Star Citizen is we dont know yet as its still in development and shows no sign of ever getting finished based on whats missing and the demonstrated progress rate of development. What we see allows us to make predicitions and some predictions dont sound as outlandish as they were before (release in 2019??? lol preposterous!!!) and of course opinions and predictions change based on reality (90 days didnt happen but replace 90 days with 90 years and we are on the same page).
We have people who admittantly buy into Star Citizen knowing about its current state and find the projects state and playability "fair" for the 50 dollar pricetag. Thats their choice BUT these people dont really talk about the same things all the skeptics do.
Star Citizen is often named in the same breath as Elite Dangerous and IMO it doesnt deserve to make that comparison. Elite is an established, released and finished game available and playable whenever you want. Star Citizen is a tech demo that sometimes works and often does not, glitchy and barebones as it comes. The fact that some people assign graphics and space legs so much quality or attention that it outweights complete gameploops, content or complexity is on them and truth be told...I dont hold such peoples opinion in high regard. Too bad that there have been so many dishonest people over the years who tried to sell Star Citizen as somethings its not and never has been, often basing elite in the process.
Today Star Citizen still is a shadow of ED in any way and the fact that its space legs look and feel better is no argument to the contrary. Oh sorry, I let my SC-hate rage get the better of me again ^^
Crowdfunding yeah....
I think it ll continue to be a factor. If not for the fact that a lot of scams are taking advantage of private people the simple truth that "every second another sucker is born" will keep em going
And these people will NOT learn from past mistakes ^^ I can hope that future crowdfunding projects will be judged a little differently than Star Citizen was....which basically just showed a hype video that (as we now know) never reflected the games state then or now and pushed people into a spending frenzy. If all it takes are nice graphics and "fidelity" I fear that projects like Star Citizen (promising the world and never having any actual results) will become more widespread. Path of least resistance and all that. But I can hope that the people who got burned by Star Citizen (if they admit it or not....looks at SaltyMike and people like him) will be a little more "careful" with future crowdfunding projects they decide to back. More control isnt actually a bad thing.
Already been playing it for 8 years so i don't think another 2 will make me one of you
To me everything that gets added from here on is a bonus to me, and i am hoping for more, perhaps the best thing for it at this point is for Chris to give up his micro management of it, let one of the senior devs take over, Brian Chambers maybe?
Thank's for your thoughts.
Ah ok, good to know.
I recently upgraded to an i5, and once, was able to run around a bit. Since then, it crashes still. When you play it, Im guessing it must be more stable/runs? May I ask what you're running it on? And, what is a typical play session like? Do you last more than 5 minutes? Does it play till you exit, or does it usually get to a point where it crashes?
As to the game again, if fidelity is one of it's strong points, then it's paultry, in my view. I start out in a bed? No dream sequence before hand? No hitting of the snooze button? Can I change the sheets on the bed? All no. Time to raise the bar, CIG.
nice post, thank you man
Star Citizen and ED dont have to be competitors but they become ones as soon as somebody claims superiority of one over the other. In the case of ED being superior over Star Citizen, thats actually true simly because ED has more content, more complexity and a reliable and smooth performance. A lot of things both games have are drastically different in quality for example, physics flight model, planetary tech, procedural generation engine etc, For years Star Citizen held the prime example of space legs but it never really made anything of it IMO. Today space legs in SC are as bareboned and worthless as they were back in 2015. The project hasnt really evolved to take advantage of space legs. Missed opportunity or incompetence is just a different opinion as the result is the same.
A lot of arguments are born when Star Citizen is sold as something its not. That is when people claim qualities that dont exist or sell them in a form that doesnt reflect reality (aka lying). Too often comparisons, even when justified (ED has the superior flight model based on physics) are perceived as a personal attacks resulting in a knee-jerk white knight reaction which a LOT of pages in this thread showcase nicely.
You like Star Citizen and you dont deny its problems. I m perfectly fine with that. It "might" become a great game, you have decided that you can wait some more still seeing the potential even tho you follow this project since 2013....I have pretty much given up on it ever becoming a success but of course.....I m willing to accept reality in case Star Citizen indeed pulls it off.
Your post transports a naive or good-willed optimism which I find questionable. For example you predict two new star sytems at the end of 2021. You are following this project for quite a few years now. How often has CiG announced something that hasnt happen? Based on the answer to this question......how likely do you think are two new Star Systems by the end of 2021? And further....what if its not happening? Are you simply shurg it off and wait some more? Add another year to your prediction and hold the same optimism? I am following SC even longer than you do and I have learned to mistrust CIG on anything they say until it actually happens based on the companies track record.
If by "space nerd" you mean being fascinated by space games than yeah. Being a space nerd doesnt mean I have to like Star Citizen. Being a space nerd doesnt mean space legs are very high on my priority list if at all. We space nerds come in all shapes and forms. No doubt a lot of space nerds like ED and what it has to offer.....laughing about them or their preferred game of choice shouldnt be the right thing to do but it happens. Opinions about ED being "shallow" and "boring" might be right for one and wrong for another. But it happens all the time. I m okay with people who like Star Citizen. I dont have a problem with space nerds who prefer Star Citizen even if I cant understand it. I have a problem with people who try to sell Star Citizen as something its not.
No doubt Star Citizen has a lot of detail and looks really pretty. Its undeniable same as the fact that games coming out today leave Star Citizen behind in visual quality (after almost 10 years its no surprise that SC is falling behind really). Forgive me for not being amazed by SCs graphics for long. Same as in other games (Borderlands 3 for example) nice graphics are great to have but you dont really "see" them anymore after a while instead focusing on stuff that provides fun and entertainment. I am not the kind of person that can spend thousands of hours on walking around and oggling on graphical details. There is exactly ONE game in my library that I have more than 4000 hours in, I havent really counted them, steam tells me its that number and I can translate that into a timeframe and also know about the effort/time it took to accumulate them. Most people claiming such numbers do so based on an estimate or let their opinion affect the number. Who can check? Thousands of hours will make you a virtual "expert" if you want it or not so the answers and posts you provide will determine how "believable" that estimate is/was
I m not saying I dont believe you (I dont....) but I wonder what you did all those hours in a game like Star Citizen? I assume its the same game that we know about with the same content, the same limitations and same qualities. just because I find something hard to believe doesnt mean I m right of course. Please dont take this personal. I m actually interested in your answers ^^As you question if people have "actually walked through a SC spaceship".....does that disqualify watching such activities on a life stream in 4K? Because I cannot, for the life of me, see a dfifference in me walking through a space ship corridor myself or watching somebody else walking through a space ship corridor when the activity and result are exactly the same only the level of investment is different? We have talked about "investments making things perceptionally better" on this thread a lot, its also called "sunk cost fallacy". And tho my personal answer is "no" (I havent done this) a lot of people here actually have done it and mirror my view/opinion. I assume this answer doesnt change anything but you asked it so I guess you had some kind of expectation or conclusion you would draw from the answer. Care to share?
Cinematic videos are great. I enjoy them a lot even tho I know they dont reflect the actual state of the game they are produced for. I have a problem enjoying cinematic videos in Star Citizen tho because they are often used to blindside people who dont know what they are getting and too many people in the past have claimed cinematic videos to showcase Star Citizen as it really is when thats simply false so I am automatically mistrustful (fool me once....) until proven wrong and if I m proven wrong I m not really mad about it (please Star Citizen....prove to be the BDSSE, we all want it to happen). Nowadays I hop into this thread to check on actual news about Star Citizen. Cinematic videos are really of no importance for that so I naturally disregard them. But I can watch them and enjoy them of course. I just dont think they are very important in this kind of discussion ^^
LOL I actually had the exact same thought ^^
I recently upgraded to a Ryzen 5800X.
The rest of the system is:
32GB System RAM
RTX 2070 Super
Installed on an NVMe Drive.
I run the game highest settings at 1440P, mostly its about 50 to 90 FPS tho in some places that can get as low as 40, during very heavy battles like the recent Xeno Threat event it can go as low as 30 in the heat of it at the battle, tho that was a big event.
95% of the time the game runs very well for me, its those few outliers that can be problematic but i don't think an level of hardware will cure that, this is a code / optimisation problem
Its not comparable with ED, at 1440P with everything set to the highest level i'm rock solid up against a 150 FPS limiter. absolutely stellar performance.
I m sorry but the only thing I could think to this was "hook....line and sinker". Nothing you say is news to any of us. These things have been preached/parroted dozens of times during this threads iterations by people who claim victim-hood or accusing anybody who disagres of "hating" the project. Needless to say these reasons havent swayed anybody I know of apart from the people who actually believed them from the start.
I could shoot you a PM explaining in detail how to manage such a salary if you are interested (no whining about walls of text tho....) but I fear we would simply enforce each others opinion resulting in a "hater echo chamber" so lets not ^^
Sandi Gardener as well as Chris Roberts are critical factors in SCs development and shouldnt be ignored. Additionally this question wasnt given as a reply to your own question but should be seen as a diversion attempt or maybe curiosity to learn about your own thoughts. If you dont care or dont know you could simply say so and be done with it. Trying to control the direction of this thread is as futile as Star Citizens development
Do I get entertainment from SC? Only through this thread, and I do like to say a thanks for all these good years of actually really quality stuff
Thats a lot of words to basically say "I hate Star Citizen". Still....upvote because I admire effort ^^
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Awww and you were doing so well....shameAlready been playing it for 8 years so i don't think another 2 will make me one of you
I m sorry but the only thing I could think to this was "hook....line and sinker". Nothing you say is news to any of us. These things have been preached/parroted dozens of times during this threads iterations by people who claim victim-hood or accusing anybody who disagres of "hating" the project. Needless to say these reasons havent swayed anybody I know of apart from the people who actually believed them from the start.
I could shoot you a PM explaining in detail how to manage such a salary if you are interested (no whining about walls of text tho....) but I fear we would simply enforce each others opinion resulting in a "hater echo chamber" so lets not ^^
Sandi Gardener as well as Chris Roberts are critical factors in SCs development and shouldnt be ignored. Additionally this question wasnt given as a reply to your own question but should be seen as a diversion attempt or maybe curiosity to learn about your own thoughts. If you dont care or dont know you could simply say so and be done with it. Trying to control the direction of this thread is as futile as Star Citizens development
Thats a lot of words to basically say "I hate Star Citizen". Still....upvote because I adm
I hope you're not suggesting that i'm claiming "victim hood" as far as i'm aware i have given you no reason to imprint something like that on me, how you feel about the project is of no consequence to me, and i have not the slightest desire to even attempt to change your mind, that's not why i'm here.