Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Wait over 3 years? People were saying each major patch your in-game currency UEC resets - was that not true?
Previous to the 3.8 baby persistence patch it was indeed true...all in game assets were wiped at every point patch. Since 3.8, we've not had a persistence database wipe so everything accrued in game since 3.8 has stayed (mostly) persistent....that's earned aUEC, in game bought ships, upgrades and equipment.

All that will be wiped at some unspecified point in time leaving you with whatever you've paid for with real money from the RSi store that's tied to your account. Barring a few bucks here and there for purely cosmetic items like ship skins, I haven't bought anything from Ci¬G for quite some time...I ship shuffle using store credit gained through melting a ship or do Cross Chassis Upgrades. (ie) Melting is exchanging or cashing in a ship for the equivalent $ value in store credit... usually something I've got bored with, and buy some newer shinier ship with those store credits.... CCU is trading in an older ship plus some store credit (or cash) to get a bigger, better or shinier ship rather than paying the full $ value of the new ship.

Most backers since 3.8 have bought 90% of their ships in game after earning the aUEC to buy them...not all, obviously or Ci¬G would be skint. There's still a thing about ownership since those ships and other items bought from the store are tied to your account and won't be wiped with the persistence database when that happens.

It's a little more complicated than that...but you get the gist of it :)
 
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This. I own Odyssey, and I don't play it right now because while the first week or so wasn't too bad, it actually started borking real bad for me soon after, and so I uninstalled for a while. I currently have SC installed, as there are few options that I own.

I like Odyssey when it's working right, and I'm steamed (no pun intended) about the lack of VR support in foot mode.
I like Star Citizen when it's working right, and I am highly critical of it because it's a 9 year old alpha that plays like a 2 year old alpha.

I have bought every expansion of ED. I'm sure at some point Odyssey will be worth its price. Honestly, with more than 830 hours in ED, I've got my money's worth out of it.
I have a Constellation Phoenix in Star Citizen. Those do not come cheap. Yeah, it was over the course of buying and melting for 3 years, but I have invested enough to buy one, and I did. Unfortunately, right now it's only purpose is to look pretty and not explode. One of those two things it does fairly well, the other... not so much.

I want ED to be better. I want space legs and ship interiors that offer a smoother, more immersive experience.
I want SC to be better. Actually, I want SC to be done. Tier 1 the crap out of the core mechanics and release it, and work on it as you go. This working on the roof while the basement collapses isn't smart.

I can be critical of both, I can enjoy both. I like Star Trek AND Star Wars. I like peanut butter AND chocolate. I like the Captain AND Tennille.
Fighting over which rich CEO of a game studio is the worst lying liar just really chafes my panties. They've both lied to satisfy their immediate financial deficits. That doesn't make them good or bad, but it does make them flawed and fallible, like other humans. We can do better than that.

Now, let's continue the petty debating. I'm going to go get a Coke.

I like the fps. But at the end of the day it feels more like an arcade cabinet dropped into Elite than anything else.

Buy Idri.
 
Lovely videos by Kate showing clearly that there's much more of a game there to have fun with and with features that many scold or said Frontier would be better ignoring and following their own path...

Attention to details and immersion are valued by many players and something that Frontier shouldn't neglect with weak excuses of "it gets boring after a while". It doesn't! It makes you appreciate the work they put in the game even more and leaves you eager for more.

Well... didn't turned out that well now did and Kate's videos and all the other Elite content creators having fun in SC and having no problem to acknowledge just how much better a lot of it's features are when compared with ED.

It is clear and decisive unbiased proof that even those who've been challenging anyone who stated as much all these years can't deny or ignore leaving them with a huge egg on their faces. (maybe why some usual posters have gone missing suddenly).

Look at the comments in Kate's videos or in DtEA's tutorial for SC (I've noticed some have a thing for random coments here):
Or in the latest EliteWeek rantcast praising SC and how the dev's interact with their community.

Frontier very much needs that, the community wants some of that passion from the first years when Braben was seen as totally committed into making Elite: Dangerous the game he pitched us in the kickstarter.

Shame that it took a troubled (and deceitful) release by Frontier for this thread to come to realisation to just how wrong those negating the game's virtues have been all these years. Even more shameful is the double standards and hypocrisy about the deceitful nature of odyssey's release but that's whole other story.

Did you mean to send this to:

David Braben,
Liar Tower,
Nasty Man Land

?
 
Lovely videos by Kate showing clearly that there's much more of a game there to have fun with and with features that many scold or said Frontier would be better ignoring and following their own path...

Attention to details and immersion are valued by many players and something that Frontier shouldn't neglect with weak excuses of "it gets boring after a while". It doesn't! It makes you appreciate the work they put in the game even more and leaves you eager for more.

Well... didn't turned out that well now did and Kate's videos and all the other Elite content creators having fun in SC and having no problem to acknowledge just how much better a lot of it's features are when compared with ED.

It is clear and decisive unbiased proof that even those who've been challenging anyone who stated as much all these years can't deny or ignore leaving them with a huge egg on their faces. (maybe why some usual posters have gone missing suddenly).

Look at the comments in Kate's videos or in DtEA's tutorial for SC (I've noticed some have a thing for random coments here):
Or in the latest EliteWeek rantcast praising SC and how the dev's interact with their community.

Frontier very much needs that, the community wants some of that passion from the first years when Braben was seen as totally committed into making Elite: Dangerous the game he pitched us in the kickstarter.

Shame that it took a troubled (and deceitful) release by Frontier for this thread to come to realisation to just how wrong those negating the game's virtues have been all these years. Even more shameful is the double standards and hypocrisy about the deceitful nature of odyssey's release but that's whole other story.
Dang it, the barely-contained bitterness just oozes from this post 🧂
 
Got to love the level of delusion

Most people don't realize that if SQ42 is even half good, it will be an instant multi-billion dollar juggernaut.

You will have ten+ million SC players probably paying $50 plus a year in the PU ($500 million in annual revenue). Plus, merchandising, SQ42 sales, sponsorships, a spinoff mobile game, etc. And if the story is even halfway good, there an animated series, and the CR dreamed movie or TV series.

All this doesn't even mention that CIG can license out their developed technologies to other games and reap a huge yearly profit.

Disney, Microsoft, Amazon, etc. will foam at the mouth to buy it. I am not mentioning EA ($143 bil), Ubisoft ($14.46 bil) won't be able to afford to acquire it.

MULTI BILLION JUGGERNAUT IF SQ42 IS EVEN HALF GOOD!!!!
 
Miribot delivering the goods again

I think you think too small :)

Let's just state simultaneous facts:

  1. SC has a massive audience. Evidence: WORLD RECORD crowd funding. The most "pre orders" in gaming history. FULL, HARD STOP. Not arguable, not debatable, absolute fact.
  2. The PC gaming population overall is MASSIVE. There are several BILLION gamers. While SC has a HUGE population already, the potential population is several magnitudes bigger. FULL, HARD STOP. Not arguable, not debatable, absolute fact.
  3. No game in history had more pre-orders than they did post-release sales. Not one. Not even close. There is no evidence that the same will not be true for SC. Once the game releases and traditional marketing begins to reach the balance of those BILLIONS of potential customers, SC will EXPLODE. I urge you to RemindMe! this post - I'll take one coffee, on you, when I've been proven 1000% right.
But you can define niche in your own personal dictionary all you want. The game is NOT niche just because it hasn't reached CoD levels (which is niche compared to Minecraft, if that's how you want to play it). The game also, while not being niche, while having a huge player base and group of supporters, is ALSO just getting started.

We're going to have to agree to disagree, if you can't see this :)

Fly safe! Or not - I'm not your mother.

Last time i checked, SC still had less than 1 million unique backers. Meanwhile other AAA games exceed that by huge margins.

Cyberpunk had 8 million preorders, and look at how that turned out.

Star Citizen: FULL, HARD STOP!
 
More delusion

Actually they have been at a rip-roaring pace, getting faster an faster, there two reasons why this isn't apparent to players:

First. The tools to build the game are what consume the largest amount of time money and resources, these tools are the cutting edge and will allow content creation at speeds never seen before and in ways never dreamt of before by any other game developer (believe it or not, it doesn't matter). Stanton was chosen as a system to begin with because it has variety, the tools to create it can now create other planetary systems much more quickly.

Stanton is the first and only system that will be worked on iteratively, the other systems will arrive more or less complete.

Second. What we see in the game now is merely a test-bed and major features are either being held back or are not functioning as intended because the server architecture can't handle more than there is right now. The work that they have done on the AI NPC's is phenomenal, but you can't see it in the game yet because the servers can't handle all the NPC's and the object container streaming together.

Only those who can think in terms of Jesus Patches and finished releases worry about what is happening with Star Citizen, the rest of us know it is not a miracle tech patch that will change things, it is block by block by block being built steadily, but faster and faster as tools and skills improve.

When they have a system that will allow parts of the Stanton system to be held on meshed servers then things will improve markedly. However meshing depends upon the backend services and persistence being in place, the new name they have for this is the Entity Graph (formerly iCache, pCache, Global Persistence), they have been steadily working on those and if you go to the SC Youtube channel and watch Tony Zurovec's presentation you'll understand more what the eventual goal is meant to be.

What's the blow your mind experience of Star Citizen compared to other games? Go away for a few days, come back tomorrow and everything could look and feel completely different. No other game studio would even think to do such a thing in a non-narrative multiplayer game.

People ask what is the 'amazing new thing', unique selling point of Star Citizen? They laugh when we say, it will be a living breathing universe that would go on whether players are there to see it or not - players are the minority, you are going to have a level of agency and permanency you've never seen in a multiplayer game before. You will find yourself one day looking at a calendar of events, or posters around the verse suddenly appearing and you'll realise, this universe just keeps going on and on and on like none we've ever seen before, and there are just so many places and things to do you'll never get around all of them.

But the negativity is because people only see what is there now, this is nowhere near all the work that has been done - not even close, and of course there is also Squadron 42 Chapter One. This is not a Call of Duty first person game with multiplayer tacked on, both games will be intimately connected.

The thing that is going to blow people away is not the pretty sunsets, detailed planets and clouds, flora and fauna even though they are pretty spectacular - it is the population of characters that you will see and meet. The knock your socks off unique selling point of Star Citizen is not a competition with Unreal Engine 5 for eye-popping eye-candy, it is the 'would never be attempted' level of realism of the characters in the UEE universe and beyond, communities and events that players will immerse themselves in. The Murray Cup racing league takes place in the universe, it's not just Arena Commander.

The reason you have probably lost your enthusiasm is because you likely haven't really looked into the magnitude of what is to come. When you see people compare Star Citizen to another other game, you have to realise - Yeah.. but all the other games are in there too! Just about anything you can do in a game (of just about any type) you will be able to do in Star Citizen.

The places are not the big deal, the ships are not the big deal, the living breathing 'going on around you everywhere universe be there or miss it' is the blow your mind event to come. There are annual events and one off events even now and they are just the tasters for what is to come.

People watch the videos that CIG make and insist they are just promo videos usually for events and ships sales - they aren't just promo's, they are telling of what life is going to be like in the verse. The biggest most immersive sandbox - first person universe - MMO ever made.

The major technical challenge facing CIG is not server meshing - it's been done by other before, or full persistence, or even building planets and locations fast enough - they are doing that ever more efficiently but there is no point in dropping all of that into the game for sight-seeing rubber-neckers only, just to silence the naysayers. The real challenge is going to be how to populate that massive universe and they have things up their sleeve few barely realise yet (change the paradigm next level poo poo!) and Tony Zurovec has only scratched the surface of showing what he is planning.

No other game has such a massive population and each one of those characters is unique and mortal, they will live and die, they will have jobs, they will have friends and favourite places to go and dreams - you will be able to individually recognise all NPC's by their faces. NPC's will not be fixed in place like Heimskr's they can move and migrate around the universe just like players (no other game studio has even thought of such a thing because the cost by traditional methods would be astronomical and it's too easy to fake it). The variety we will see is just staggering, but even more staggering is the capacity to change.

This post will get downvoted extremely fast in all likelihood (all I need to do is post a picture of kittens in r/awww if I wanted to farm karma or avoid loss of karma) because those who can't fathom such a thing and hate the idea of this project succeeding will do it, what they hate is the idea that anyone else coming along might dream bigger than they can, even though they have nothing to offer in it's place.

When you go into the game try to realise it was dreamers who built this universe - we came together to do better than the biggest and the best, not investors or cynics, and it's the dreamers who are still building it and will continue to build it for many more years to come, how many other games do you know will expand year after year after year without let up - and you don't get any extra charge for it? When the game is 'finished' as everyone insists it should be following the standard game development design that they can only envision is when the dreams die, we've seen that with Cyberpunk2077 and even Elite Dangerous Odyssey.

We didn't want the standard game development model, that's precisely why we had to go it alone without investors, no-one wanted to know about a huge sci-fi game back in 2012, if it didn't have swords and dragons with magic it didn't get a look in.

Did you know, Star Citizen is the only AAA game ever to be made with NPC's that are able to communicate with the deaf because they will use American Sign Language? The mocap has been done. Do you think EA, Ubisoft or Bethesda would do such a thing? We can, because we know we will pay for it and wait for it, time is the precious commodity few investors want to give in abundance.

If you want to buy a complete game experience for today, this project is really not for you. If you want to know that you contributed to something unique and beyond wildest dreams for years into the future, then yes - help us all make that dream a reality.

LOL

that's precisely why we had to go it alone without investors

Clive Calder has entered the chat with over 50 million dollars.
 
Did you know, Star Citizen is the only AAA game ever to be made with NPC's that are able to communicate with the deaf because they will use American Sign Language? The mocap has been done. Do you think EA, Ubisoft or Bethesda would do such a thing? We can, because we know we will pay for it and wait for it, time is the precious commodity few investors want to give in abundance.

Funnily enough I have played games that use speech bubbles, you just read what they say, sure you could go mocap and have the actual NPC use it which seems a lot of unnecessary work and trouble, or you could have optional speech bubbles.

Am I missing something here? Don't speech bubbles count as communicating with the deaf?
 
Funnily enough I have played games that use speech bubbles, you just read what they say, sure you could go mocap and have the actual NPC use it which seems a lot of unnecessary work and trouble, or you could have optional speech bubbles.

Am I missing something here? Don't speech bubbles count as communicating with the deaf?

Yes, but don't tell the faithful that, it might startle them to learn it.

Also, i'm not certain, but i don't think the NPCs can use ASL yet anyway. I think this is another case of a backer using future-as-present tense.
 
Previous to the 3.8 baby persistence patch it was indeed true...all in game assets were wiped at every point patch. Since 3.8, we've not had a persistence database wipe so everything accrued in game since 3.8 has stayed (mostly) persistent....that's earned aUEC, in game bought ships, upgrades and equipment.

All that will be wiped at some unspecified point in time leaving you with whatever you've paid for with real money from the RSi store that's tied to your account. Barring a few bucks here and there for purely cosmetic items like ship skins, I haven't bought anything from Ci¬G for quite some time...I ship shuffle using store credit gained through melting a ship or do Cross Chassis Upgrades. (ie) Melting is exchanging or cashing in a ship for the equivalent $ value in store credit... usually something I've got bored with, and buy some newer shinier ship with those store credits.... CCU is trading in an older ship plus some store credit (or cash) to get a bigger, better or shinier ship rather than paying the full $ value of the new ship.

Most backers since 3.8 have bought 90% of their ships in game after earning the aUEC to buy them...not all, obviously or Ci¬G would be skint. There's still a thing about ownership since those ships and other items bought from the store are tied to your account and won't be wiped with the persistence database when that happens.

It's a little more complicated than that...but you get the gist of it :)
Is that how long its been? That's 18 Months without a persistence reset. i think its time, i have a lot of junk cluttering up my inventory, i'm not a hoarder, i find it quite annoying having a mountain of stuff i don't use, what's the point of owning 3 different fighters? You're always going to have a favourite and with that the other two just sit in a barn slowly rusting away.
 
Is that how long its been? That's 18 Months without a persistence reset. i think its time, i have a lot of junk cluttering up my inventory, i'm not a hoarder, i find it quite annoying having a mountain of stuff i don't use, what's the point of owning 3 different fighters? You're always going to have a favourite and with that the other two just sit in a barn slowly rusting away.

True that. In ED i have one of every ship, but most hardly ever get flown.
 
Last time i checked, SC still had less than 1 million unique backers. Meanwhile other AAA games exceed that by huge margins.

According to the front page there are a little over 3.1m registered 'citizens', and currently total funding in the regions of $354m, meaning the average spend is just over $100.

Now, that 3.1m may include all the folk who registered for 'free fly events', and the $354m may include the secondary investment CIG gathered, so take those figures with a pinch of salt, but it's unlikely that there are under 1m backers who've paid at this point.

The ASL thing I hadn't heard of, but that's a bit strange / overkill to me. What's wrong with subtitles? How's that going to work in the situations where it shouldn't?

NPC Boss: "Here, watch my hands and lipread a bit, because it's an interesting gimmick while my henchmen sneak around in the periphery of your vision to attack you!"

NPC Commando <signs(at 50yds)>GRENADE.
 
The ASL thing I hadn't heard of, but that's a bit strange / overkill to me. What's wrong with subtitles? How's that going to work in the situations where it shouldn't?
Sign language are just emotes and CIG have a dedicated mocap team which can spend some times to do the capture.
If you just want to 'subtitle', simply use direct chat with the player. Real subtitle bubbles break immersion and come with a lot of technical complexities in a 3D game.
 
According to the front page there are a little over 3.1m registered 'citizens', and currently total funding in the regions of $354m, meaning the average spend is just over $100.

Now, that 3.1m may include all the folk who registered for 'free fly events', and the $354m may include the secondary investment CIG gathered, so take those figures with a pinch of salt, but it's unlikely that there are under 1m backers who've paid at this point.

The ASL thing I hadn't heard of, but that's a bit strange / overkill to me. What's wrong with subtitles? How's that going to work in the situations where it shouldn't?

NPC Boss: "Here, watch my hands and lipread a bit, because it's an interesting gimmick while my henchmen sneak around in the periphery of your vision to attack you!"

NPC Commando <signs(at 50yds)>GRENADE.

There have been various numbers over the years. The first indication that "citizens" != "backers" was many years ago, around the time they had 1 million citizens on the tracker. Turbulent let slip that only around half of them were paying backers (and no mention as i recall of whether they were unique accounts either).

More recently, a year or two ago, CIG released some figures, and i'd have to go digging, or maybe someone can provide the numbers, but again, there was a big disparity between citizens and paying backers, and again, IIRC, no mention of how many were unique backers (although its hard to tell unless you start doing some deep analysis based on IP addresses, etc, and even then you're going to be off by a margin).

But at best, its something like 1.5 million (although again, you might want to check CIG's figures - if you're willing to accept anything CIG actually say) without taking in consideration alt accounts.
 
Funnily enough I have played games that use speech bubbles, you just read what they say, sure you could go mocap and have the actual NPC use it which seems a lot of unnecessary work and trouble, or you could have optional speech bubbles.

Am I missing something here? Don't speech bubbles count as communicating with the deaf?
DeafVerse would also like to have a word…

 
DeafVerse would also like to have a word…

I nver understood the part when Rohan arrives at Gondor and they all shout "Deaf! DEAF!" and then charge but use lances and swords. Wouldn't it be better to use blunt stuff to give the orcs a good hammerin' for the deafening charge?
 
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