Star Citizen Thread v6

[Zyll Goliat]

Well, even if it is awesome it will never survive the amount of HYPE buildup.

Exactly.....anyway I just can´t see that SQ42 will be such a good game after seeing what I seeing so far,I mean do you expect some U-turn in Flight mechanics and overall game play?I simply can´t see things that will change everything upside down that is wrong with this game....anyway there is a still chance to be maybe an OK game(like MEA) but even then it will be one of the biggest FLOP in gaming industry........

 

[Cobra1984]

You are correct abou SQ42 dev only starting in 2016. That's absolutely right. The bit you are missing is that it did not continue in 2017.

I disagree about backers being unhappy at release, this will continue to be funded regardless of how bad a release is - and CR has said...

"There will be no version 1.0“

 

[Agony_Aunt]

They did not have full performance capture material until the latter half of 2015 for SQ42 and definitely not the STAFF in 2013 right after the kickstarter.

So at most 2016-2017 so far.

Dude, you said animations. They had animations straight out of the box with the cryengine, and they definitely showed off animations back in 2013. If you meant mocap animations, then i'm fairly sure they started with all that quite some time ago... not 2016-2017. Just in case you didn't notice, its 2017 right now.

 

[Memnoch]

So presumably Foundry 42 in Manchester are doing more than sitting around on their hands and still getting paid. What are those guys up to there? If they really haven't done anything for a year, which I sincerely doubt, what have they been working on in the meantime. Even CR wouldn't let them sit around and get paid for nothing, surely.

 

[Cobra1984]

So presumably Foundry 42 in Manchester are doing more than sitting around on their hands and still getting paid. What are those guys up to there? If they really haven't done anything for a year, which I sincerely doubt, what have they been working on in the meantime. Even CR wouldn't let them sit around and get paid for nothing, surely.

Carrying the team in LA

 

[n4p0l3on]

They want to merge mocap data with scripted actions so they can create interactive cut-scenes similar to those in HL2, where the player can move around during the scene and the NPC's will still interact with both player and environment as they complete the script (turn their heads, turn to face the player, eye tracking, walk around the player), but they haven't figured out how to do it. Turns out when you have entire scenes that are motion captured, blending them with scripted and interactive tasks is not straight forward without venturing into the uncanny valley (fluid natural motions that are suddenly blended with scripted animations, or other mocap data in ways that will look unnatural)

Basically all full body mocap involving a person walking a path are completely useless once you allow the player into the mix, because you then have to deal with the player getting in the captured path. So if they have capped entire scenes with several people in them, and these people have been walking around during the scene, they are pretty much all junk and close to unusable.

valid speculation but as I said, they could easily replace such with forced on rails walking simulator scenes like in many other AAA games... with every resources CIG have, they should be able to improvise and cut corners like I speculated.

 

[Skizomeuh]

why, what really happened with sqd42?

My most pessimistic me thinks the story still sucks, they're in constant loop script, LD and technical refactors to fix the "suckness" AND stick to the additions to SC long list of technical debts and features, and also most of the Hollywood cast don't want to re(re)shoot (some may have even requested not to be tied to the project anymore so voice and physical performances can't be used)

 

[n4p0l3on]

I'm past caring about posting some stuff I was holding back on because I don't see anyone talking after gamescon, it was that big of a disaster.

Mocap for squadron was rumoured at "$13 million and counting"

None of it worked in their pre-made scenes, and because the character models in the engine are all the same height it looked weird and caused clipping problems when they pulled in mocap from actors of varying heights. Yeah.

The devs on squadron just rolled with it and used tweening and oldschool techniques to get something up and running for last year. Then it was pulled and that's the last time anyone worked on it.

SQ42 is a storyboard and millions of dollars of performance capture. There is no game, it does not exist.

Sorry if that unsettles anyone.

the thing is, your insight completely doesn't make sense seeing there are other cryengine based games with mocap animation integration like kingdom come deliverance (medieval 1st person rpg that is also crowdfunded) and crysis series and they don't seem to have that issue?

 

[Cobra1984]

the thing is, your insight completely doesn't make sense seeing there are other cryengine based games with mocap animation integration like kingdom come deliverance (medieval 1st person rpg that is also crowdfunded) and crysis series and they don't seem to have that issue?

No, they don't seem to have that issue.

 

[Skizomeuh]

No, they don't seem to have that issue.

Because they're not doing it like "never done before"™?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Carrying the team in LA

As I recall, they effectively said that. Something about the Manchester team being used to help work on 3.0. Erin's team has probably got as far as they can and are waiting for tech to be finished by other locations before they can finish their work.

 

[Cobra1984]

Because they're not doing it like "never done before"™?

I've already said it, the engine is scrap. All they do is fight with it, in crunch mode, every day.

But it doesn't matter because the whales funding it every month don't care about a game, or a release date.

This is all fairly well known tbh

Isn't the reality of it, as it slithers into view, more fascinating than a mere *game*?

 

[Cobra1984]

As I recall, they effectively said that. Something about the Manchester team being used to help work on 3.0. Erin's team has probably got as far as they can and are waiting for tech to be finished by other locations before they can finish their work.

I did not see that but it lines up exactly with a personal exchange from a while back

 

[amigacooke]

the thing is, your insight completely doesn't make sense seeing there are other cryengine based games with mocap animation integration like kingdom come deliverance (medieval 1st person rpg that is also crowdfunded) and crysis series and they don't seem to have that issue?

They have a different issue. KickStarted for Windows, macOS and Linux platforms, being released (several years late of course) for Windows, XBox and PS4.

Sorry, way off topic

 

[n4p0l3on]

They have a different issue. KickStarted for Windows, macOS and Linux platforms, being released (several years late of course) for Windows, XBox and PS4.

Sorry, way off topic

Not really, it was known back then that kcd would release on consoles. And as for now kcd is definitely coming sooner than both sc and sqd42, assuming the later is still indeed being worked, which is increasingly more unlikely.

 

[Cobra1984]

They have a different issue. KickStarted for Windows, macOS and Linux platforms, being released (several years late of course) for Windows, XBox and PS4.

Sorry, way off topic

A positive thing that I hope comes from all of this is regulation and oversight for crowdfunded software projects. That's been in the back of my mind the whole way through gathering reams of stuff on Star Citizen.

Might be off topic but absolutely relevant to the discussion and way overdue.

 

[spacebum]

My most pessimistic me thinks the story still sucks, they're in constant loop script, LD and technical refactors to fix the "suckness" AND stick to the additions to SC long list of technical debts and features, and also most of the Hollywood cast don't want to re(re)shoot (some may have even requested not to be tied to the project anymore so voice and physical performances can't be used)

Of course the story sucks but that's not gonna stop them - have you seen Wing Commander??

The fact that they haven't talked about their Hollywood cast lately says a lot. They were never shy about hyping that, and would do anything at this point to get fans excited and buying more ships, but have now gone very quiet. For some reason they cannot use the footage they've already shot, and probably can't shoot more. What a fantastic waste of money.

Ah well, at least Sandi got to have pictures of her stood next to some real actors. Mission accomplished.

 

[n4p0l3on]

A positive thing that I hope comes from all of this is regulation and oversight for crowdfunded software projects. That's been in the back of my mind the whole way through gathering reams of stuff on Star Citizen.

Might be off topic but absolutely relevant to the discussion and way overdue.

Regulation? By whom and how?

 

[Snarfbuckle]

As I recall, they effectively said that. Something about the Manchester team being used to help work on 3.0. Erin's team has probably got as far as they can and are waiting for tech to be finished by other locations before they can finish their work.

Not surprising, would be a waste of wages if they did not.

let's say they are done with:

- Storyline & Mission chain
- Cleaning up and integrating Performance Capture
- Adding all Motion capture for SQ42
- Have all ships needed for SQ42 (I remember something about the Bengal not being part of the first part of SQ42)
- All textures, building and mission areas needed for SQ42

Then what is left is possible mechanics like:

- Escorts from 3.1 (for using Wingmen)
- Repair and salvage in 3.2 (making patch jobs on a mission perhaps)
- Rescue in 3.3 (Rescue mission of a pilot)
- Jump Points in 4.0 (Player travel independently to another system without carrier)

So until THOSE are done they can use the staff with the right skillset to help on other parts.

Which of course might not include other parts not yet done like:

- All Vanduul ships (might only need external shells for a start)

 

[Noctrach]

With regards to motion capture, people often think that a mocapped performance by an actor can simply be integrated into the game, but that's pretty far from the truth.
Mocap performances go through the same pipeline every other animation in the game does.

It's the same as with 2D animations, you need to over-exaggerate certain movements to make it come out with the right feel and emotions.
To this end, most motion capture data goes through very extensive modifications and cleanup, essentially making it just as much work as doing animations from scratch.
It simply provides artists with a near-perfect baseline to start from before they amp up and tweak the actual result.

This behind-the-scenes of The Last of Us provides some fantastic insight in how mocap works.
(Important bits at 34:48 but the entire video is well worth watching if you have an hour to spare)
[video=youtube;yH5MgEbBOps]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH5MgEbBOps&t=34m48s[/video]