Star Citizen Thread v6

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As you know English is not my first language so if I have used any rude words, I apologize please let me know which words cause you distress. The mods seem ok with my post

I understand quite well as my first language is not English either ... but rather the American version of it .... ;) .... As for Pros and cons of SC, I believe earnestly that we need both. Yes many of us have our doubts and we have our opinions (ya think?). But whether we have doubts or not most of us recognize how SC could be, if and when it's launched in it's completeness. This thread is about the whole ball of wax that is SC. The good, the bad, the question marks. I want the Freelancer Max, I think it is. But having invested $65 I will not invest another $140 to have it when I do not have a game to play it in. And I'm not referring to the Alpha or Pre Alpha, what ever we are calling it.

I do not hate SC nor do I drool over it either. We need those white Knights, as you call them to help all the nay sayers find balance. Star Citizen is what it is. At the least a quite ambitious and controversial project. Perhaps not the first of it's kind nor the last most likely.

I don't normally buy into a game before it hits the shelf. In fact I usually shop the bargain shelf's a year or so after they release. But I invested in SC after some thought so I could try it and both see what IT was about and to have a say about it. If you haven't tried it I don't see how you can be objective about what it is or isn't. But that's just me.

And comparing SC to ED is kind of silly. It's like comparing the old True Grit movie to the new one. Both have merit but only one has John Wayne. Still I enjoyed both simply because they are TWO different movies from the same book ...

Enough of my prattle ...

Chief
 
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Viajero

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would you apply the same razor to frontier, viajero? :D

Well, we can have our own ideas of what "buggy" means and a different tolerance to it, so be my guest of course! :D I was simply echoing Wind own statement about it.

In the case of Elite and FDEV I can at least see a game that is released in 3 platforms, that people play with the best concurrency levels since it was launched in Steam and that has contributed to the best financial records in the history of its company this very year. I will leave it up to you to decide how "buggy" it is.
 
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One more funny thing regarding the discussion about how long CIG is already developing the game. On the kickstarter page of Star Citizen they said this 2011: “Even with our very limited self-funding we have been able to do already a lot of work which is why we can show you not just concept art and a cinematic trailer, but an extensive demo of actual game play. So, we are confident that even with limited means we will be able to deliver an amazing experience.” https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen [bottom of the page]

It definitely is suggested here ("Even with our very limited self-funding we have been able to do already a lot of work") that a playable base game does exist and full version will follow within the 2 years Chris Roberts was talking about in this other interview.
The comment section of the Kickstarter page is pretty sad btw :(
 
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It definitely is suggested here that a playable base game does exist and full version will follow within the 2 years...

Sad indeed... Bottom line: I can't ever see this game ever being released in any form even remotely close to what everyone hoped for. It's sad as I'm sure we all would have loved to play it but Chris Roberts clearly doesn't have a clue how to make this game and no-one in CIG seems able or willing to take over and get it done. And - unlike the Freelancer debacle - there's no "evil" publisher about to swoop in, inject some cash and common sense, and get this done and onto our hard drives. It's over; it's just taking a really, really, really long time to die. Until then, the whales can buy more JPGs and speculate as to how cool FOIP will be in the 'Verse.
 
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FOIP was already a tech that was created and put into games years ago. It flopped for obvious reasons. CIG have yet to develop anything new.

Its splitting hairs I know but it does lead onto a point.
CIG have not developed FOIP, they asked have another company to provide it for them.
Listening to the other companies CEO or whatever he was on the live demo, he was clearly trying to sell the special webcam.

So I asked myself if you bought one would you be buying it from CIG or the other company?
That led me to think ask has CIG paid this company for the tech or just promised to promote its special webcam in exchange?
I have always wanted IR tracker for my none VR games but never got around to it so will this webcam work as an IR tracker for other games?

I suspect none of us know the answers to this at this point, but if you do please let me know. In less that 5000 words this time please Fritz[heart]
 
would you apply the same razor to frontier, viajero? :D

I think I know what Znort means- it's easy, really...

Frontier released a space game and keeps on improving by adding features, CIG is just making up features in the hope it'll sum up to a game. A space game. Eventually.
 
Star Citizen has only ever existed as a means for Roberts to make some money and reposition himself in what he believes is his rightful role as the godfather of space games, and to advance his writer/director ambitions now that his Hollywood career appears to be dead. And/or to reestablish that Hollywood career on the back of the crowdfunding success, because movie execs won't care whether SC/S42 ended up being failures as long as Roberts can show he made a ton of money out of it.

To what end would CIG be pioneering new technology that would benefit the whole games industry? There's this recurring myth that they'll be able to sell their marvelous, futuristic tech and survive off the royalties of a grateful industry when a) they are prohibited from selling their variant of Lumberyard by the license agreement and b) what little they've achieved so far has either been done before or could be done by other developers if they so desired and CIG's interpretation doesn't really have any "proprietary" features. And c) CIG haven't actually got most of it working properly in the first place. I doubt there were any AAA studios out there which were green with envy during the Gamescom presentation. Apart from when they consider how much money Roberts has been gifted.
 
Wasn't there talk of them licensing their 'crowdfunding platform' at one point, I wonder what happened to that idea? :rolleyes:
 
Wasn't there talk of them licensing their 'crowdfunding platform' at one point, I wonder what happened to that idea? :rolleyes:

That delightful little gem cropped up a few times a while back - but I don't think it's floated up recently. I'm not going to bother searching through the enormous pile of "content" that CIG have churned out over the years - we've all read it, watched it, and scratched our heads in bafflement.
 
Star Citizen has only ever existed as a means for Roberts to make some money and reposition himself in what he believes is his rightful role as the godfather of space games, and to advance his writer/director ambitions now that his Hollywood career appears to be dead. And/or to reestablish that Hollywood career on the back of the crowdfunding success, because movie execs won't care whether SC/S42 ended up being failures as long as Roberts can show he made a ton of money out of it.

To what end would CIG be pioneering new technology that would benefit the whole games industry? There's this recurring myth that they'll be able to sell their marvelous, futuristic tech and survive off the royalties of a grateful industry when a) they are prohibited from selling their variant of Lumberyard by the license agreement and b) what little they've achieved so far has either been done before or could be done by other developers if they so desired and CIG's interpretation doesn't really have any "proprietary" features. And c) CIG haven't actually got most of it working properly in the first place. I doubt there were any AAA studios out there which were green with envy during the Gamescom presentation. Apart from when they consider how much money Roberts has been gifted.

It is not even that much money in the grand scheme of things. FD are making about the same amount a year as SC, possibly more now that they released a 2nd IP, keep in mind that FD is a smaller studio. Games like Dota 2 make 80 million a year. The bigger phone app games make something like 30-50 million a month. Even Player Unknown Battle Ground (EA game) has made over 200 million or something (in far less time then CIG). When you factor in how large of a studio CIG is and how much their burn right has to be, and then look at how many contracting companies they payed and then through out work from. CIG are really not making all that much.
 
After the Gamescom reality bite, out of the 30 or so friends who had backed at similar levels to myself ($300 or so)...I'm the only one left. 22 of them asked for refunds within hours of Gamescom with no intention of buying back in with even a starter package.

As for me...I keep hovering over the figurative refund button then not doing it, no real idea why. Sure, I can afford to write the sum off without much thought...but should I be encouraging CR's directorial cinematic fantasies on the whim of ever landing my Cutlass Black on a planet/moon and actually completing a simple trade mission?

I can't keep extending my deadline to cut off my support much more without feeling like so many of the hopelessly and tragically emotionally invested drones... I'm not one of those...but wishful thinking is fast becoming a guilty passion [yesnod]
 
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Not only did they say they started in 2011, they kept showing updates in the following years of the real development they were doing. For the real game that would really launch in 2014 with the real money people really paid. Snarfbuckle knows it. He is intentionally revising history to make the development seems less troubled. There is a better word than 'nonsense' when people intentionally say stuff that isn't true, btw. :) Note how the 'realistic release date' is always 'conditionally next year'. The release date for Sq42 has been 'next year' for years now, its pathetic. Mark my words, if it doesnt release in 2018 Snarfie will come here telling us we'd all knew 2019 would be the realistic year all along. :)

It's always next year or the next patch because the donkey has to be able to see the carrot.
 
After the Gamescom reality bite, out of the 30 or so friends who had backed at similar levels to myself ($300 or so)...I'm the only one left. 22 of them asked for refunds within hours of Gamescom with no intention of buying back in with even a starter package.

As for me...I keep hovering over the figurative refund button then not doing it, no real idea why. Sure, I can afford to write the sum off without much thought...but should I be encouraging CR's directorial cinematic fantasies on the whim of ever landing my Cutlass Black on a planet/moon and actually completing a simple trade mission?

I can't keep extending my deadline to cut off my support much more without feeling like so many of the hopelessly and tragically emotionally invested drones... I'm not one of those...but wishful thinking is fast becoming a guilty passion [yesnod]

I feel with you but I m glad you are doubting because of your own conclusions and remain able to see things even if you dont want to. Many here stated before that they dont want SC to fail, but the way this project goes at the moment with CR at the helm its possible that there simply is no chance for it. Still, I feel a little sad to hear about your indecision /comfort
 
I ll bite :)

1. because its non-existing. With all the new features coming up and technological "break-throughs" discovered by CiG they would be forced to re-write the single player campaign every few months because the foundation and the possibilities change so often. So IF it exists I d say its nothing more then a skeleton without any meaty pieces attached to it. Mo-cap will be missing completely, if they had that integrated a lot of it would ve trickled down to the PU already. As CR always touts (repeated by the white knights) how closely connected PU and SQ42 are I think we can take a good hard look at the current PU and determine from that how far along SQ42 is. Being unable to show anything because of "spoilers" makes me think that they either A) have such a tiny campaign that a single 5 second snippet would probably reveal 50% of its content or B) it simply doesnt exist the PAARP speech aside.

2. SQ42 is all about space ships and your career in the navy which focuses again around ships and space warfare (think Top Gun in space). I am sure space legs and FPS elements can be integrated as well but it will be an addition at best and never the focus. Sadly thats exactly what seems to the current Magnus Opus tho. Everything is about walking, running, doing FPS things while the ship aspects (beside visuals) is pretty much ignored. If I imagine CiG releasing a full campaign with current dogfight mechanics SQ42 will be one of the biggest flops in history. As the 2017 Gamescom showed CiG will showcase and present half-finished stuff and even content that was never asked for in order to create an appearance. Do you really think that if SQ42 would be finished or mostly done CiG would just sit on it and not use it to leech more $$$ off the gullies?

3. again I believe SQ42 is pretty much non-existent so releasing a "simple" cinematic single player campaign in the spirit of Wing Commander would mean buckle down and start from pretty much zero. By now they dont have the manpower nor the financial means to undertake such a project and come out with anything that would even raise an eyebrow. I guess they sat on their dream too long and too careless expanding and bloating without working on any of the basics and now the hollow mountain starts to crumble and all they can do is to walk lightly in order to avoid a landslide. Everything about Star Citizen screams "maintenance mode" to me. We follow their "progress" for months with in-editor snippets of good-looking fragments but none of it ever makes it into the PU and even now....a full year after 2016 most of the things shown in 2016 are missing. I consider the 2017 presentation "smoke & mirror" until it makes an appearance on the PU. Chris Roberts proves time and time again that he is disconnected from reality and still lives in 1990 regarding technological capabilities. All the surrounding factors make the existence of SQ42 highly improbable.

We ll never hear the "real" story about SQ42 for sure but I hope that we ll get an insight into all the assets and work completed on this game and then realize that it was all an illusion from the start and never had a chance to take off.




Again, this is not how the real life works. You reserve this attitude for a childish dream of yours, yourself or maybe next of kin (children most likely, people tend to be less forgiving with their partners). You will always find it in yourself to forgive yourself or strike a compromise to keep on going. If this behavior is projectd on outside factors then something is seriously wrong. We are not talking about a child-time teddybear or your own toddler kid. This is a grown man with a company behind him taking money for promises without delivering anything in return. At this point the ultra/white knight behavior borders on a clinical condition. Even if you loan money to your best friend you ll do it a couple of times at best. But if you never see anything of it back and your friend keeps asking for more you will eventually change your relationship or make a hard cut.

Not with CiG which is extremely strange/funny. Instead of asking for results or trying to get value in return for your financial investment (notadonation) people try to avoid the subject at best they can instead bringing forth this "when its ready" crap. Tiny little things which are non-existent at this point are rewarded with 400$ purchases and a single word (for example "soon") is worth millions to the fans if the tracker can be trusted. Take a good hard look around yourself. Check every other released game and observe the complaints and critiques about the smallest things. And this goes for private people mostly. If you deal with business partners things become much more strict and harsh. Fail a deadline and you are looking at penalties, keep doing so and your contract gets adjusted until your own profit dwindles toward zero or puts you in debt. A "deal" entails conditions and responsibilities which need to be met else there will be consequences. Our world doesnt work on the principle of "when its ready". Chris Roberts could maintain that statement if he would develop Star Citizen on his own dime like....I dont know.....Derek Smart does with his games. But he does it with other peoples money and those people expect a return value which is pretty non-existent at this point. Kickstarter never was a donation. It was a token of trust at best. People who pledged expected something and I m pretty sure none of them was thinking "I ll pledge 2000$ and this game will be released when its done". No, Chris Roberts advertised proficiency he doesnt possess and claimed awards he never accomplished (Wing Commander) to gain the trust of people (me included) and projected a timeline which was very agreeable to all of us.

I believe the initial influx of money was used to purchase good looking videos and fluff stuff in order to make people part with yet more money making it the beginning of a scam. Once people were involved it was rather easy to look past delays and "problems" but nothing really comes forth expect yet another excuse or another delay or another broken promise. At some point a mature adult will take a good hard look at his business relation and make a call. Some will have a bigger financial pool to draw from so even 30.000 might not hurt all that much (hard to believe but I guess its possible, lots of the super rich have kids you know). But please dont try to sell this condition or apathy of yours as "take as much time as you need, its ready when its ready". I could ve been a backer as well if I didnt wait a few more months to see how it evolves and if I were whoever says this doesnt speak for me. Also I wouldnt be a smarty or goon or hater, I would simply be a disappointed backer whos expectations were not met. If other people are so shallow and easy to please....good for them, just dont try to talk me down because I expect actual value for my hard-earned money. And telling me to "get lost" or "get a refund" will not save the project either. It will simply reduce the pool of people to draw money from. Apart from the project turning into an echo chamber eventually.

But thank god people dont simply turn their back and walk away. I am not invested in Star Citizen and yet I keep speaking up. Freedom of speech and all that you know. Dont be mad at me if the results from CiG are laughable and reek of extortion and scam. Dont stalk me because I dare to point out obvious flaws and mistakes and even lies. Why would you hate on the messenger and not the one who actually creates the message?

There are countless people promising the world or the sky and often enough there are people who so desperately want that vision to become true that they will donate or give money to it. Most of these scams are short-lived tho because people stop caring if nothing ever comes to fruitation. A well managed scam lives from a carrot on a stick and this is something Chris Roberts and his family are pretty proficient in sad as it is. We are basically talking about extortion by now. CR lost my trust back in 2014 and everything he has done since then only confirms my initial impression. I am always amazed how people are willing and able to twist their own perception and willfully ignore obvious flaws and hints in order to "keep the dream alive". Due to the short attention span of todays population the frequent release of ATVs is an absolute MUST to keep the money-train going.

You always have to wake up eventually tho. A dream is just that, a dream and eventually even this one will come to an end.




I would give that scenario a 80%+ probability. Personal estimate of course. If anybody thinks its wrong and has an impression of success regarding SQ42 feel free to provide examples and facts which might support your opinion.



Star Citizen by now might as well be a still born project with no hope of revitalization. We have a thesis of a pool of roughly 2000 heavily invested people, called "whales" and I dont doubt that number really. Such a financial commitment would result in lots of community interaction (to keep up the hype and continue spreading the dream) and while the shills, ultras and white knights are still numerous on various comment sections and forums its nowhere as bad as it was in the first 2 years where you risked a tidal wave of crap beating you into the ground whenever you dared to show any sign of doubt. Things have changed and I m sure its because the pool of fanatics has become smaller over time. With a smaller pool of people to draw money from CiGs options have become less and I think thats what we see in the past 2 years or so. Videos have become less impressive and much shorter, its often in-editor snippets now instead of full-blown propaganda videos and the presentations have also lost a lot of glimmer and shine. I can credit CiG with a "good looking video" in 2017 but that doesnt change the fact that everything feels half-baked, unfinished and improvised. Yes, its an alpha, I never forgot that you know. Star Citizen reminds me in every moment that its "at best" an alpha and nothing more. But I am one of the people who remember what the original kickstarter amount was and I still see the list of stretch goals linked to monetary values before my eyes. CiG has been given time enough and also more then enough goodwill to materialize anything of those things and you know what.....I am still waiting for anything that will "blow my mind". The absolute BEST thing from Star Citizen so far for me was the original Kickstarter Trailer. We dont have that and if I take a look at the current game I see a game that doesnt resemble what was promised back then.

Anyway, if this thesis is true (less people who give money resulting in less impressive stuff coming from CiG) then we are talking about a downward spiral which will eventually result in a collapse. How long this will take depends on the remaining people who continue giving money for nothing in return. But if the current status is upheld and this is the best CiG can manage with the money from the die-hard fans who continue to believe then things will not improve. They will rather turn worse and every single backer going for a refund really hurts now further reducing CiGs movement.

CiG does NOT have all the time they need to make this work. They have a window and as far as I can tell that window is closing. And if the game finally dies it wont be because of the "haters" or "Derek Smart" its because Chris Roberts was unable to deliver what he promised. Simple truth folks.

People talk about the "future" of Star Citizen. About how content and quality needs to be "sufficient" in order to allow purchases and sales to reach a wider audience. This makes me LOL really. A final release resembling a functional game equals a wonder at the moment and people talk about as if thats a given.


As for the "future of crowdfunding" I dont really think a reveal of the scam that Star Citizen is or its collapse will "hurt" crowdfunding in general. It will make people more aware of the risks for sure (and only for those who followed the project really, so many people never heard about SC, a failure will not affect them or their decisions regarding crowdfunding). There are a few individuals who cannot be helped (I m talking about the remaining whales who keep giving hundreds each month) but the majority of people evaluates risk versus reward when backing a project. That wont change. Maybe people will look more into the background of the project managers. If that would happen with Chris Roberts back in 2012 Star Citizen probably wouldnt have blown past the 65 million so easily resulting in the mess we now have.




I believe that poll to be as bogus as the fundtracker of number of backers. It was used as a justification for a decision made by Chris Roberts. Neither were a sufficiant number of backers informed nor asked in order to justify turning the whole project around. The poll was for whoever managed to stumble across is in the time window it was up. I would ve expected emails to everybody but that never happened because then CRoberts couldnt control the outcome.




1. While I m sure thats exactly his plan he cannot do it because 3.0 doesnt exist to an extent that would allow him such a move. We only saw fragments of 3.0 and the presentation he gave himself wasnt 3.0 but "future patches" so of all the things 3.0 promised to deliver only a couple are checked.
2. I m sure their "exit strategy" is finetuned and maintained as we speak and discuss this trainwreck.
3. the whales and fanatics already do this and try to drive away anybody who isnt all-in. The problem is that they are unable to shut up skeptics and criticism but those things never were responsible for a projetcs failure.




No doubt but the simple and ugly truth is that all those shiny visuals dont make a game and the creator of those videos obviously thinks exactly the same way putting more focus and weight on shiny pictures then a solid foundation. Star Citizen reminds me of a delicate crystal statue. Its looks beautiful but touch it and it falls apart. Its meant to be watched, not played with. Wouldnt that be a shame for Star Citizen?

This is a fantastic, detailed and honest accounting of the project from the perspective of someone who bought into it and followed it. One of the best I have read.
 
I really, honestly, absolutely wish that the gamescom presentation wouldn't have been such a disaster. I don't mean this in a sarcastic way either, I'm absolutely serious. There's some absolutely fantastic modeling and texture work in that thing. It is however pretty late to suddenly realize this. Those people who didn't cotton on after the sudden switch from their "90% customized" fork of CE to the "90% identical" Lumberyard really have themselves to blame at this point. There's no way both of these statements by CIG were true. One of them was a flat out .
 
After the Gamescom reality bite, out of the 30 or so friends who had backed at similar levels to myself ($300 or so)...I'm the only one left. 22 of them asked for refunds within hours of Gamescom with no intention of buying back in with even a starter package.

As for me...I keep hovering over the figurative refund button then not doing it, no real idea why. Sure, I can afford to write the sum off without much thought...but should I be encouraging CR's directorial cinematic fantasies on the whim of ever landing my Cutlass Black on a planet/moon and actually completing a simple trade mission?

I can't keep extending my deadline to cut off my support much more without feeling like so many of the hopelessly and tragically emotionally invested drones... I'm not one of those...but wishful thinking is fast becoming a guilty passion [yesnod]

I can only say that it was a relief to get my refund (after last years citcon), even if it only was $70.
 
After the Gamescom reality bite, out of the 30 or so friends who had backed at similar levels to myself ($300 or so)...I'm the only one left. 22 of them asked for refunds within hours of Gamescom with no intention of buying back in with even a starter package.

As for me...I keep hovering over the figurative refund button then not doing it, no real idea why. Sure, I can afford to write the sum off without much thought...but should I be encouraging CR's directorial cinematic fantasies on the whim of ever landing my Cutlass Black on a planet/moon and actually completing a simple trade mission?

I can't keep extending my deadline to cut off my support much more without feeling like so many of the hopelessly and tragically emotionally invested drones... I'm not one of those...but wishful thinking is fast becoming a guilty passion [yesnod]

If money is no issue:
1) Get a refund.
2) Give the money to a small indie studio actually making games.
3) Give CR money again after he delivers the game as promised.

Win/win/lose, but who cares about CR at this point. ;)
 
After the Gamescom reality bite, out of the 30 or so friends who had backed at similar levels to myself ($300 or so)...I'm the only one left. 22 of them asked for refunds within hours of Gamescom with no intention of buying back in with even a starter package.
Are they really still giving out refunds? For some reason I thought that was a limited time thing.
Not that I really care, as I'm only in it for $35. I'm just curious.
 
SC is a pipe dream..and CIG already stated they have problems with several pipelines for certain things..

How long until people realize they play in a tarpit and not in a sandbox...
 
After the Gamescom reality bite, out of the 30 or so friends who had backed at similar levels to myself ($300 or so)...I'm the only one left. 22 of them asked for refunds within hours of Gamescom with no intention of buying back in with even a starter package.

As for me...I keep hovering over the figurative refund button then not doing it, no real idea why. Sure, I can afford to write the sum off without much thought...but should I be encouraging CR's directorial cinematic fantasies on the whim of ever landing my Cutlass Black on a planet/moon and actually completing a simple trade mission?

I can't keep extending my deadline to cut off my support much more without feeling like so many of the hopelessly and tragically emotionally invested drones... I'm not one of those...but wishful thinking is fast becoming a guilty passion [yesnod]

Look at what they've managed after 6 years and $150m...it's nothing. There are amateur mods which have made more progress in less time. Get your money back. What's the worst that can happen, it is released and worth playing and you buy it for a regular price like any other game?

All evidence so far is pointing to them bumbling along like they have been and making no tangible progress toward their (ludicrous and arguably impossible) goal until the money runs out, and then you get nothing.


Hahahaha

See this is a good example of why you should get a refund. They don't have an engine that can tell the difference between atmosphere and vacuum, doors that work, orbital mechanics, a clear plan of how trading and the economy will work, or even ONE SINGLE completed star system out of 100...and they're cramming in pointless face tracking that was already done by another game 5 years ago.
 
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