No progression reasons to engage in any form of PvP + Grind wall to fully engineered ships, along with trial and error = less players do PvP.
What is the actual cause here? And does this mean PvP should not get those problems fixed?
Modes Statement that "all game modes are equal" is naive and completely false at the moment.
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No progression reasons to engage in any form of PvP + Grind wall to fully engineered ships, along with trial and error = less players do PvP.
What is the actual cause here? And does this mean PvP should not get those problems fixed?
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It could be as simple as the fact that not all players enjoy PvP - and this game gives them options as to who they play with, so they don't need to play among those that do prefer PvP.
I don't think so. Why do you ask?
Maybe, why not. But - sources please.
I've also heard about this. Sounds like a really nasty exploit. Is this still a thing? I'm not sure though if that's even theoretically possible with UPnP off and no port forwarding. But then I'm no network wizard, I only know what I read about it here and there. When in doubt ask Dav.
BUT:
In my understanding, if everyone would keep UPnP off and don't set up any port forwarding (both recommended standard settings for security reasons BTW!) this would immediately kill Open cause each possible instance wouldn't find a host anymore. Unless FDev would use some unknown network voodoo of course...
Of course it will. But as long as "red hollow triangles" would continue to host connections, nothing will change. Just people would cease to see everyone but those players.
I'm not sure how effective the uPnP thing is anymore.
Frontier did do some tweaks to their networking when they sorted out IP6 and further tweaks for Multi-crew.
You'd still lose a few players no doubt, but I don't think you'd lose as many now - I may try it to find out, as it's only a tick box.
You can still set your router / firewall up to block all unknown IPs though.
So there is that way of being able to play open for any bonus and still not see anyone.
ED have all things necessary for any PvP gameplay, yet simply nothing is built on that foundation.
And that I belive it is the main reason PvP is unpopular and why many PvP players do not play ED despite buying it. Then add a grindgeneering wall. Then add submarine warfare in PP, no one to pirate in Open, and no reasons to haul anything in Open.
Same as Blizz turning WoW arena into competitive e-sport at recent xpacs, Fdev decided to create CQC. With similar results. In case of WoW, this brought down PvP admission to record lows by a huge margin.
What is the main drive for a lot of MMO is that your PvE efforts translate into PvP success and back and forth.
Dude with OP gear PWND you - you whine on forums a bit and then go get yourself some gear. Then PWN fresher newbies. Sure, you need skill but you need better gear as well. And this has little to do with actual competitiveness.
And there is no actual effort to get gear in ED. You work conveyor belt for a quite fixed amount of time to get standardized top-level gear, and you cannot fail in that. Standardized gear is just, do not get me wrong. But this adds more insult to this "grind" part, as well as the conveyor belt does.
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That's something I'm really curious about. I don't make friends in game and so I can't check this out by myself. If someone (you perhaps?) would be so kind? I'm not talking about actively blocking unknown IPs, just UPnP off and no port forwarding. The test setting would require all players in a given instance (no exceptions, no foreign players) using this very same setup. Then check out and tell me if you still can see and interact with each other. If that would work I would have to reconsider my worldview.
Depending on what my wife has planned for tomorrow, I'll run to Jameson and grab a Sidey and run around in Open at the CG with uPnP off and see what happens, for general testing.
I'm sure if 90s or Algo see me, I'll end up on a rebuy
Can do more specific tests with you when you're ready.
I also have my IP6 enabled, which the game uses. So that is another thing to look at, if I should disable IP6 for testing.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
For some, the basis of any PvP gameplay would be that it would be completely unaffected by those in game modes other than Open. That's not the way this game works. Every player both experiences and affects the single shared galaxy state.
As to "no one to pirate in Open, and no reasons to haul anything in Open." - maybe because being the unwilling target of an attacker (I'll not use the word "pirate" here, as few of them are, in my experience) isn't "fun". Frontier cannot provide live prey for those inclined to attack other players.
Other than rank locked ships and Power locked modules there isn't a level-lock on ships or equipment - if the CMDR can afford it they can buy it and use it - it's not that kind of game.
I wanted to be a willing target - but was nothing to be gained for that risk, so I had to chose boredom. I do not haul anything now, I am way past that in terms of progression. I want to hunt pirates though - yet there is none around aside from a couple of griefers which remain after CnP and are on my friend lists already. All I do is spam "PvP?" in the direction of everyone I meet, and that is all I can get from PvP in ED.
So what is there for a person who does like PvP but does not like ED and space games as much then?
Money here is used as an experience bar - nothing changes. And small amount of people actually care about single galaxy state.
By the way, I am not sure that current state of things is the intended and the best one. I am not sure that when you have to choose between efficiency and fun can be called a good gameplay.
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Question, if you don't like ED and space games as much? Why not play a different game to get your PVP fix?
And if you want PVP in ED, why not try to organize it? It has been suggested before.
I'm afraid that would be pretty futile. You'd need to make sure that *everyone* in your current instance has UPnP disabled *and* no port forwarding set up. That's a test that would require trustworthy friends with at least a minimal technical understanding. It's not rocket science but they should at least know how to check their router for these settings.
FWIW (I guess not much) I'm flying in Open the last couple of days with these settings and have not seen a single player yet. But I'm currently acting outside of the PP bubble which is very low traffic anyway, so... also, I'm still on an ironman game, so not sure if it's good advice to do these tests myself. I certainly would once I've lost its ironman state, but this commander simply refuse to die.
Well, the general fly about in open is still worth testing, to see if there is a drastic change in player numbers with just my own uPnP being tweaked.
If I go to the CG system with uPnP on, and see loads of folks then logout and toggle the settings and log back in. I can see if it makes a difference from just my own settings.
Will also have to test with IP6 enabled and disabled.
I think I'll need to make a chart.........
Was I talking about myself? And what am I doing rigth now?
You are that asked the question, I was just questioning why it even needed to be asked in the first place. As for what you are doing right now, don't care. If you found PVP good, if you are PVEing good, if your whining about the lack of PVP... use the forums to set up a battle royal or something. Maybe even get people into CQC>
join mobius, much more civilised, meet people with a vow that they won't attack each other, but still interact. This is 3304 after all
Not attack anyone and not getting attacked in not the point here really.
Network structure have nothing to do with this, I belive.
And by the way, they plan to add squadrons. So..
If network structure is sufficient to that, then how it is not so for adding any meaning to wPvP?
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Just seen a reply from an established player on another thread, who has a state of the art ship, who was attacked by a wing of four and destroyed. I bet they wonked up the High Street over that kill, 4 onto 1, reinforces my belief tha open is full of neanderthals, or for those old enogh 'knuckle dragging Hirojans'
So existance of opportunity cost for avoiding that hell and specifically engaging with those people would bother you too much?
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I am sorry but no. The only thing you have correct here is that ED was not built on a PVP game play foundation. Otherwise your "main drive" for a lot of MMOs is drivel... In every MMO I have played except for the original Ultima Online and Eve... PVP was ... keyword here... Optional. It was never the driving force in the game. Even in Ultima Online they created PVE shards because of the same crap that goes on in ED.
And one of your points... that your PVE efforts translate into PVP success and back and forth. Well your PVE efforts are the only way that you get PVP success in ED otherwise you will still be in a starting sidewinder.
As for no effort to get gear in ED? You have to put in effort, and by participating in engineering and PP you can go beyond "standardized gear"
I do find it interesting that you state that PVP has nothing to do with competitiveness, because I know many that prove you wrong on that... but sadly some try and prove you right and they are the "PVPers" who get the most airtime as it were...
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