We have a lot of the same modules and enhancements for which a long journey needs to go through more than a dozen times.
I think this makes these same modules even more necessary.
Stop the grind, please!
- Thread starter Gaffa
- Start date
I think this makes these same modules even more necessary.
Just remember to add the qualifier, "to me," or, "to us," to these claims. Otherwise we'd be making the same mistake as they have, claiming that something is fun or not fun for everyone. These things are largely subjective.
Grind* IS fun... for a small minority of people.
Twitch action IS fun... for the vast majority of gamers.
*Not everyone's prefrontal cortex has reached the same level of maturity.
Yes, I think gamers call the removal of modifications from an object "un-enchanting". The only solution is to either keep lots of different suits with different mod combinations, or make one you're happy with and sell the rest. Thanks to being able to name the loadouts, it's easy to have ones for different tasks be easily recognisable when choosing from the loadouts screen.
Now calculate how much material is needed for this.
Mostly G3 suits can be used with a specific mod (like the backpack capacity).
How many of the mods are really necessary anyway? They just make things a little bit easier.
Steve
I'd remove a fair bit of the grind..... especially the daft requirements for things like the latest anti-xeno tech.... took me ages to get 1 caustic sample.... need another 4 just for ONE caustic sink... I want more sinks... more caustic samples.....
And as for the suit requirements for mods/upgrades/ accessing 15 settlement defence plan....... ..... sheesh I aint got time for that
Bill
<<another oldie still playing
And as for the suit requirements for mods/upgrades/ accessing 15 settlement defence plan....... ..... sheesh I aint got time for that
Bill
<<another oldie still playing
You do need SDPs for just only one mod and it is an headshot damage mod ... all other are in Bubble accessible from other engineers. Personally I did not unlocked Wellington Beck and Uma Laszlo despite have fully upgraded all suits and weapons and recently I'm slowly gathering mats for specialised versions. I do not rush, but in SPDs case I decided that it is not worth my time. It very likely can be taken by raiding certain sort of settlements again and again and hope for lucky rng, but this exactly is what I hate to do in this game ... so I don't. I would rather do journey into Colonia to open access to engineers there if I really needed to have that above mentioned mod. Imo SDPs are only one requirement which FDEv really poorly choosed for on foot engineering.
btw: it seems SDPs are regularly "mission data" for newly added missions (from secondary objective) in Thargoids conquered systems ... however I do not like idea to abandon missions just for keep those data
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It's impossible to make a game that's "fun" to every single person in existence.
Many people play online multiplayer first-person shooters several hours every day. I can't stand them. They bore and frustrate me to death.
Nah, just make the suits as you go. Thinking about the stack of mats doesn't make it any faster or more enjoyable. Besides, you don't really need that "I wonder if it'd be fun to try a jumping, punching, plant scanner", it's a thing you do just because you can.
Cool - a reason to do missions!
Caustic sinks are fortunately a one-time unlock then you can buy them with cash.
I kind of liked that one because it was actually a bit challenging compared to most of the grinds in Elite.
I've never made a Maverick over level 3. But after the mission with the Revenants it seemed to me that it is quite difficult and I decided to make a Maverick 5 with the right mods.Nah, just make the suits as you go. Thinking about the stack of mats doesn't make it any faster or more enjoyable. Besides, you don't really need that "I wonder if it'd be fun to try a jumping, punching, plant scanner", it's a thing you do just because you can.
Now I'm agonizing and making it to go to Revenants again.
I will add my two cents in as well to this post coming from a different perspective.
.
I will start by saying that i have put a decent amount of time into this game for someone who plays it more casually. I started playing this game a while ago and back then it was a lot of fun to work your way up, upgrading as you go and discovering the systems at play and how to do all the quest types. Unfortunately, at some point you have to make goals and when you do that you find out just what is required to achive those goals and unfortunately how long it will actually take by doing the various tasks in the game that make money.
.
My goal was getting a really good ship for exploration and outfitting it. It was to engineer it fully just so it will perform better outside the bubble but after getting one thing done i would rather hang myself then do that again. Its not that the tasks of engineering were bad its that the time it took to do it turned something that should be fun, since you are playing a game, into something thats actually quite the opposite. The problem lies in how long it takes to complete. There is nothing exciting doing the same task over and over again when you know nothing will change. The fun comes in variation and surprise. To top it all off, thats just one upgrade among many many others. Any excitment of doing it is washed away and leaves you feeling empty. There is no sense of accomplishment for geting the thing you want, its more a sense of, holy , im never doing that again, and imo, thats bad game design. This is after all a game. Not a way of life, not a job, not a chore, its supposed to be a game. I dont know if somewhre along the way the devs just stopped playing their game but if you pick it up and play it for yourself you will want to hang yourself too once that grind really sets in. There is no way there is someone who enjoys that kind of torture. Its like an element that exists in pay to win games that forces you to buy something with your own money to skip the grind except you cant, there is no boosters, there is no way to finish it any other way other then to drag your face along gravel from a moving vehicle. I would legit pay to never have to do that again, so again, bad game design. I would even pay in game credits for the mats needed to finish that crap even if they were expensive becasue the credit grind isnt even that bad but im sure they would make the costs outragious anyway for the mats so no point there either.
.
Engineering aside there are moments in the game when players discover ways to really make bank. A gold rush so to speak. That is until the devs realise that they exist and nerf the hell out of it so nobody can enjoy a moment of relief and earn a decent living per time invested. They are great when they pop up and honestly moments that the game suddenly becomes quite alot of fun to play. It forces you to play the game differently then you would normally do if you want to take advantage of that gold rush and make that $$$. Goals suddenly become a lot more achieveable, you are getting a larger payout for a much smaller investment of your time. It really got me thinking, why isnt that a normal system in the game? Elite dangerous can easily implement a system where certain activities become very much in demand. This would push people to diversify who normally wouldnt and switch things up while also giving you a much higher then normal payout per time invested. This is afterall, my main gripe with this game. Its a time sink. Real life is short and at some point i want to be done with a game. If my goals are blocked by an arbitrary time allotment that is quite massive to begin with then i have to look at whether this game is even worth putting the time into. That makes this game a deturant for many people who pick this game up for the first time and realize the same thing. The player count would be much larger if this didnt exist. If this game actually bumped up demand for areas per faction whether it be combat, mining, trading, looting, transporting and actually switched it up to where some factions just have a boom for those quests or tasks more people would engage in it just to take advantage of the significantly higher profits. Thats how awful the money making grind is currently, people would do anything to have that increase even if its for a short burst. There is plenty of things that can be done to make it natural, new terraforming efforts require more mining, high demand for so and so faction. Increased pirate activity so a high need for combat. Right now people just find something that makes a lot and they just do it over and over and over again because its the best thing and everything is just static and never changes unless its something that makes too much money and actually adds a bit of fun to the game for the simple reason that its removing a lot of the grind, then its nerfed to the point its just like everything else and everything else sucks because it requires too much time. Kind of sad when players find happiness in having to play a game less and it shouldnt have to boil down to that to begin with.
.
I love the concepts and ideas of this game but a lot of the time i find myself just traveling around doing the same thing way too many times. Its not even the thing that im doing thats the problem, granted i wish there were more surprises and variations that would make things feel a little more unique, but its really the amount of time that im pouring into doing it. It just feels like id rather not do it at all. Credits feels like the hurdle to the rest of the game, once you have billions and you no longer have to worry about credits again then the game can really open up for you and you can finally start forging your own path as the game suggests. Its like its a two parter game. The first part is being the work horse and slaving away for money and then the second is like retirment where you get to go on vacations and spend all your wealth enjoyign the rest of your time for once free of restrictions. Until then you are stuck on a monotonous grind without end until you to decide that its either wasting your time or you have all the time in the world to waste.
.
Older players have taken advantage of many gold rushes throught the games history but newer players dont have that luxury. Because of nerfs, the ability to make money fast to do all the cool stuff in this game is a grind and honesly one that eats way too much time. Any sense of acomplishment is weighed by how much time it takes to get it. As a more responsible adult who has a life, this is not worth it and i cant even recommend this game to anybody who values their time, which i have tried to do and im now voicing these complaints. Elite dangerous just boils down to one giant fetch quest after another and if your lucky you can get enough money to break the chains of slavery that is the credit grind and finally forge your own destiny because as it is, this game feels increadibly linear until you are rich enough to not need it.
.
I will start by saying that i have put a decent amount of time into this game for someone who plays it more casually. I started playing this game a while ago and back then it was a lot of fun to work your way up, upgrading as you go and discovering the systems at play and how to do all the quest types. Unfortunately, at some point you have to make goals and when you do that you find out just what is required to achive those goals and unfortunately how long it will actually take by doing the various tasks in the game that make money.
.
My goal was getting a really good ship for exploration and outfitting it. It was to engineer it fully just so it will perform better outside the bubble but after getting one thing done i would rather hang myself then do that again. Its not that the tasks of engineering were bad its that the time it took to do it turned something that should be fun, since you are playing a game, into something thats actually quite the opposite. The problem lies in how long it takes to complete. There is nothing exciting doing the same task over and over again when you know nothing will change. The fun comes in variation and surprise. To top it all off, thats just one upgrade among many many others. Any excitment of doing it is washed away and leaves you feeling empty. There is no sense of accomplishment for geting the thing you want, its more a sense of, holy , im never doing that again, and imo, thats bad game design. This is after all a game. Not a way of life, not a job, not a chore, its supposed to be a game. I dont know if somewhre along the way the devs just stopped playing their game but if you pick it up and play it for yourself you will want to hang yourself too once that grind really sets in. There is no way there is someone who enjoys that kind of torture. Its like an element that exists in pay to win games that forces you to buy something with your own money to skip the grind except you cant, there is no boosters, there is no way to finish it any other way other then to drag your face along gravel from a moving vehicle. I would legit pay to never have to do that again, so again, bad game design. I would even pay in game credits for the mats needed to finish that crap even if they were expensive becasue the credit grind isnt even that bad but im sure they would make the costs outragious anyway for the mats so no point there either.
.
Engineering aside there are moments in the game when players discover ways to really make bank. A gold rush so to speak. That is until the devs realise that they exist and nerf the hell out of it so nobody can enjoy a moment of relief and earn a decent living per time invested. They are great when they pop up and honestly moments that the game suddenly becomes quite alot of fun to play. It forces you to play the game differently then you would normally do if you want to take advantage of that gold rush and make that $$$. Goals suddenly become a lot more achieveable, you are getting a larger payout for a much smaller investment of your time. It really got me thinking, why isnt that a normal system in the game? Elite dangerous can easily implement a system where certain activities become very much in demand. This would push people to diversify who normally wouldnt and switch things up while also giving you a much higher then normal payout per time invested. This is afterall, my main gripe with this game. Its a time sink. Real life is short and at some point i want to be done with a game. If my goals are blocked by an arbitrary time allotment that is quite massive to begin with then i have to look at whether this game is even worth putting the time into. That makes this game a deturant for many people who pick this game up for the first time and realize the same thing. The player count would be much larger if this didnt exist. If this game actually bumped up demand for areas per faction whether it be combat, mining, trading, looting, transporting and actually switched it up to where some factions just have a boom for those quests or tasks more people would engage in it just to take advantage of the significantly higher profits. Thats how awful the money making grind is currently, people would do anything to have that increase even if its for a short burst. There is plenty of things that can be done to make it natural, new terraforming efforts require more mining, high demand for so and so faction. Increased pirate activity so a high need for combat. Right now people just find something that makes a lot and they just do it over and over and over again because its the best thing and everything is just static and never changes unless its something that makes too much money and actually adds a bit of fun to the game for the simple reason that its removing a lot of the grind, then its nerfed to the point its just like everything else and everything else sucks because it requires too much time. Kind of sad when players find happiness in having to play a game less and it shouldnt have to boil down to that to begin with.
.
I love the concepts and ideas of this game but a lot of the time i find myself just traveling around doing the same thing way too many times. Its not even the thing that im doing thats the problem, granted i wish there were more surprises and variations that would make things feel a little more unique, but its really the amount of time that im pouring into doing it. It just feels like id rather not do it at all. Credits feels like the hurdle to the rest of the game, once you have billions and you no longer have to worry about credits again then the game can really open up for you and you can finally start forging your own path as the game suggests. Its like its a two parter game. The first part is being the work horse and slaving away for money and then the second is like retirment where you get to go on vacations and spend all your wealth enjoyign the rest of your time for once free of restrictions. Until then you are stuck on a monotonous grind without end until you to decide that its either wasting your time or you have all the time in the world to waste.
.
Older players have taken advantage of many gold rushes throught the games history but newer players dont have that luxury. Because of nerfs, the ability to make money fast to do all the cool stuff in this game is a grind and honesly one that eats way too much time. Any sense of acomplishment is weighed by how much time it takes to get it. As a more responsible adult who has a life, this is not worth it and i cant even recommend this game to anybody who values their time, which i have tried to do and im now voicing these complaints. Elite dangerous just boils down to one giant fetch quest after another and if your lucky you can get enough money to break the chains of slavery that is the credit grind and finally forge your own destiny because as it is, this game feels increadibly linear until you are rich enough to not need it.
a lot of good points and ideas in youre text, i agree with most as they say point taken. i thought i was reading a book at first,a lot of typing lol.
Just going back to the part where we were giving advice and hints... @Gaffa : when you return to your chosen Guardian site, keep in mind that there are multiple different types of Guardian sites, which will yield three different types of Blueprints:
We had a few occasions more or less recently where players complained that the altar (after activating all the pylons) wouldn't accept the Relic in exchange for the Blueprint. Usually, it turns out that they were at a Vessel Blueprint site and would have needed the Key from one of those space installations (quite apart from the fact that a Vessel Blueprint would have been usless for unlocking the FSD Booster...)
You can find lists of the sites for example at https://canonn.science/codex/guardian-structure/ or https://elitedangerousutilities.azurewebsites.net/customtable/display?id=guardianstructures
- Guardian Module Blueprints: this is the one you want for the FSD booster
- Guardian Weapon Blueprints: those you need for Guardian/hybrid weapons
- Guardian Vessel Blueprints: if you want to equip a Guardian/hybrid fighter in a fighter bay, you'll need one of these. And unlike the former two, you can't unlock them through an Ancient Relic (the blue prisms you can find on the sites), but you'll need an Ancient Key (which you can get from a Guardian Beacon, floating in space)
We had a few occasions more or less recently where players complained that the altar (after activating all the pylons) wouldn't accept the Relic in exchange for the Blueprint. Usually, it turns out that they were at a Vessel Blueprint site and would have needed the Key from one of those space installations (quite apart from the fact that a Vessel Blueprint would have been usless for unlocking the FSD Booster...)
You can find lists of the sites for example at https://canonn.science/codex/guardian-structure/ or https://elitedangerousutilities.azurewebsites.net/customtable/display?id=guardianstructures
No, it's now far too easy and quick to make cash. Cash has become meaningless, hence people with multiple fleet carrier accounts and still trillions in the bank, and also people getting the Big Three end game ships within days when it used to take months and months (it was 6 months before I could afford an Anaconda back in the mid-2010s).
You can make billions in a very short time doing Road To Riches or exobiology. Or sell Tritium at Colonia.
Getting materials especially on-foot data, that's the real currency.
Also, post too long.
Credits are not meaningless though. Not everyone is a x000 hours veteran with billions.
If you play the game as a new commander right now (something I am doing with someone else who never played the game before), you'd see tons of discrepancies and imbalance when it comes to earning credits. Sure, it's "easy" if you do "this list of things". And that is still a relevant issue in the game today as it has ever been. It shouldn't be "easy" at all but then it shouldn't be like it is in EDO, where earning credits is comparatively very slow unless (again) you do "this list of things". But I guess FD agree with you and think credits are now meaningless as they appear unwilling to do a proper pass on this.
You are somewhat correct that materials are the currency of the game (still way tougher for said new players to obtain, particulalr in ship stuff - a lot of veterans here forget that they've got billions of credits worth of fully upgraded ships enabling them to "easily" get the mats they need to upgrade their next ship and forget just how frustrating the process is for new players).The vasty majority of materials you need in the game will require some form of repetition to obtain if you have any sort of wishlist. Even me, with my thousands of hours, fully upgraded ships and knowledge of how to get everything I need, when also using EDMH to sort it all out for me... I want to build a new ship right now, I need to go do certain things to do that. A lot of that is repeated as well. It all takes a ton of time and all I've done is mitigate the frustration by knowing how to do certain things more efficiently. I will not go and scan wakes for 2 hours for 10 data. I will instead take missions to get 5 MEF a time then trade across. As I do said missions I will take limpets and collect all the materials that drop from the ships I kill in said missions. Rather than do the tiresome HGE loop (literally a loop if you know what I'm talking about) I will take more missions that offer exquisites and so on, then trade them over. I'll take missions I don't mind doing but...
... ultimately I have to do dozens of these missions to fill bank so I can trade for what I need!
And I am still thinking that I need to go run 20-30 Dav's runs to fill out some of the lower end stuff, lest I need to do even more of said missions to fill out the huge (huge!) wishlist of materials I need to just build one ship. This is after me having run about 18+ assassination missions, with the additional time taken to wait around while my limpets gather everything after every kill (this adds a ton of time to the process as well) to get the G5 stuff to trade (which I've done already and now need to do again)
Here's that list:
Anyone who is experienced with this process will already be able to see I'm not that far off now, as I'll be able to trade over quite a lot of stuff. But they'll also know that those 43 exquisites I have will not go very far when I burn them into Core Dynamics, heat vanes, poly caps, proto lights and radiolics. We all know this to be the case yet we still have some here who think there's zero repetition in the process and that we can just "G3 everything and happily do it by accident as we play".
Well, I don't want to G3 stuff. And this will not be the last ship I want to engineer. And I stress that you need to engineer ships if you want to do any of the end game stuff it has to offer (unless you are a masochist, of course, and enjoy taking forever to kill stuff and needing to stop playing to repair all the time and enjoy jumping slower and so on).
And I should stress that the above list is typical no matter how small your ship, because they all need the same number of "rolls" no matter what, even a sidewinder. If I showed that to my girlfriend she'd just go "nope". Not to mention that she still hasn't even started the unlock process yet and well... yeh, that's going to be a fun ride. And that is just one ship to G5. It's absolutely insane that a game should have a wishlist of items this long for just one iteration. And there's no sensible way to break that down into smaller "game play" chunks. I mean, just think about how you'd process all of this in your head if we didn't have third party tools to help us. The only sensible way to do this is to plan ahead, list everything you want and do this process of "pot filling" until you've got what you need. The only alternative is to spend days randomly failing to complete many item upgrades and bombing about the galaxy aimlessly until you happen across the stuff you do need, then go back to try again until you hit the next roadblock. I think we can all agree that most players aren't going to enjoy that process, if they have a certain target they wish to achieve (and if you haven't then well done, you have somehow achieved the nirvana of being a gamer who doesn't want anything any more).
So yes, this (above) is the game's main currency and, given that, it's utter bonkers that said currency is split into so many dozens of types that are obtained in so many bonkers ways, almost all of which require extreme repetition to obtain in the quantities we need to do the basics. And that list above isn't even including the fact that we're going to want to do the on foot stuff, which is less bonkers (fewer currency buckets) but no less repetitive to obtain.
The overarching issue I have with this "currency" is that upgrading new ships, suits and weapons should be really fun! It should be the bit we all love telling our friends about! But it is, without doubt, the biggest part of the game that I don't want to introduce my girlfriend to because I know it'll put her off big time but, seriously... so many conversations go like this: "Oh that looks fun, can we do that?" and I have to say "sure, once we've upgraded" and then what I should be saying is "and that'll be so much fun, can't wait to do it with you" but I don't, I just leave it there because I know how frustrating it'll be and then it'll all be "so you'll need to install this software and bookark all these websites to make it even paletable..." when we finally get going with it.
Why is this something we've come to accept?
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Just play the game, the rest will happen by itself magically.