Stuff that makes us come back

[Darkfyre99]

Actually, in this case, it does.
Combat is the ONLY game mechanic where XP is used. Depending on what you are killing, you get a small amount of XP, which is then added to your combat rank. Once you hit enough XP, you level up/Go up a rank.
And unlike trading, where every credit counts, Killing a novice as a deadly won't reward you with any XP. Where as even as a Tycoon, trading for 200cr profit will still count towards your goal of becoming Elite.

Combat

Combat is one of the three archetypal pilot roles recognized by the Pilots Federation. Combat encompasses multiple sub-roles, such as Assassin, Bounty Hunter, Mercenary, and Pirate. Increasing Combat rank requires destroying other ships, and defeating pilots with higher Combat ranks rewards a...

elite-dangerous.fandom.com

But in this case, "XP" doesn't actually make you more powerful. It doesn't make you hit harder. It doesn't increase your defense. It doesn't add new skills. It doesn't even unlock access to new missions, that can only be done by gaining reputation with a faction.

What it does, at best, is open up access to a few engineers, none of which have modifications that are exclusive to them. At worst, it makes NPCs more difficult to kill, especially if you cheesed your way up to that rank using an internet approved farming method.

 

[Caelum Incola]

I'm a little late to this thread, but FWIW and after some of the conversations at Lavecon last weekend here are my thoughts on what keeps me playing most.

1) Spaceships!! I get to fly spaceships that all have different characters, strengths and weaknesses and behaviours in a believably dynamic way, in a believably dynamic GALAXY.

2) The galaxy. I mean, a 1:1 scale version of the Milky Way is a mind blowing achievement which still fills me with wonder after over 4000 hours and well over a million light years travelled. (I know, I know...rookie numbers )

3) There is sooooo much to do once you really get into it. When I first heard of ED, I researched and researched it, finding that reading about just one particular subject took me down an ever deepening, baffling rabbit hole. I remember being utterly bewildered at the complexity of it all, but ultimately it meant that there was always something I wanted to do next. There still is, and now I can also leave footprints on a planet too?!?!?

4) It's beautiful. There aren't enough words for me to express how jaw droppingly gorgeous most of the things we look at through our canopies are, and how quickly we take many of them for granted. In VR too it's simply mind blowing. So much so, we actually celebrate taking screenshots for their own beautiful sake and award prizes for them!

5) If you're anything like me and grew up on a diet of Star Wars movies, Heinlein, Bradbury, , Asimov, Hubbard, Herbert et al., Space Shuttles, 'We really went to the moon just before I was born!?!', and you've ever gazed longingly up at the stars feeling like you just had to KNOW what was out there, then this game scratches so many itches like nothing else I've ever experienced.

6) The Community. This is possibly the biggest reason I keep coming back. Doing alone what I've mentioned above can be an amazing experience, but getting involved with other players, experiencing fantastic organised expeditions, participating in player driven emergent gameplay such as being a Fuel Rat or careering around the galaxy as a Buckyball racer, or just getting a small group of friends together and messing about launching your SRVs into orbit from a geyser or taking on a Haz Res makes the whole experience so much richer. That and the welcoming nature of most players and forums who are always willing to help those less experienced and share their passion makes this for me, in over 40 years of it, the best gaming experience I've ever had, or are probably ever likely to have.

Thank you Elite. o7

 

[Riverside]

But in this case, "XP" doesn't actually make you more powerful. It doesn't make you hit harder. It doesn't increase your defense. It doesn't add new skills. It doesn't even unlock access to new missions, that can only be done by gaining reputation with a faction.

What it does, at best, is open up access to a few engineers, none of which have modifications that are exclusive to them. At worst, it makes NPCs more difficult to kill, especially if you cheesed your way up to that rank using an internet approved farming method.

I believe V'larr is describing gated content. An example would be Xeno combat, where there are many layers of gates to unlock to be able to participate successfully.

Please note that I am not expressing a preference one way or another.

 

[Old Duck]

I think one of the biggest issues we are already facing is the generic blend of homogeneous galaxy.
Everything looks exactly the same. The only thing that varies is the planet the station is next to.

With this I agree. This is why I'm more excited about Starfield's small number of (I'm not sure how many, but not many compared to Elite) planets than Elite's 400 billion systems that people will always use to say Elite is better. Give me a dozen utterly unique, distinct, living, breathing, and iconic systems over 100,000 generic look-alike systems any day!

On the other hand, the unique iconic McDonalds that was in my town for like 50 years was recently torn down and replaced with the cookie-cutter "seen on every city block" McDonalds design, so I guess in our dystopian future, a lack of variety is quite plausible... Add this to my list of reasons why installation defense is my current favorite gameloop in Elite - more variety!

 

[Darkfyre99]

I believe V'larr is describing gated content. An example would be Xeno combat, where there are many layers of gates to unlock to be able to participate successfully.

Please note that I am not expressing a preference one way or another.

But you actually don't need to do combat to participate in Xeno combat. Which begs the question on if you're not interested in combat in the first place, then why are you interested in combat. Never mind, I'm missing the forest for the trees with that statement.

The thing is, I don't see much gated content in this game. Players can, and have, do pretty much everything in the game with the starting Sidewinder. They may not be very effective at first, but there's no actual gate to doing it. When people speak of "gated content" in this game, what they really mean is that they feel that they won't be guaranteed success unless they do X,Y, and Z. Which isn't the game getting in their way, but their own fear of failure.

For example, once Odyssey was released, I immediately heard about Frontier introducing a new grind. That you have to G5 everything. I've found that as long as you use stealth, scout the area, and plan your actions, pretty much every mission can be done with the G1 gear. G2 gear simply lets you ignore one of those factors. G3 lets you ignore two. G5 is only necessary if you intend to Leeroy Jenkins your way through a mission. And I've found that G2 gear to be easy to acquire via Pioneer Supplies, as long as you enjoy a variety of activities, and G3 gear not that much harder. Deliberately setting out to acquire G4 and G5 gear before you do an activity is akin to driving an hour out of your way to save yourself 50 cents.

 

[Tikanderoga]

With this I agree. This is why I'm more excited about Starfield's small number of (I'm not sure how many, but not many compared to Elite) planets than Elite's 400 billion systems that people will always use to say Elite is better. Give me a dozen utterly unique, distinct, living, breathing, and iconic systems over 100,000 generic look-alike systems any day!

Absolutely.
Starfield is meant to have 1000 planets I think, but if Elite has shown me one thing, it's that Less is more!
I don't need 400billion planets and Stars. 0.1% of that would suffice and still offer a HUGE variety. And let's not forget to find that needle in a haystack everyone calls Raxxla. Don't care if it's out there or not. The odds of finding it is... well... 400b:1

 

[Greasetrap42]

Combat is the ONLY game mechanic where XP is used. Depending on what you are killing, you get a small amount of XP, which is then added to your combat rank. Once you hit enough XP, you level up/Go up a rank.

As per the discussion you are replying to please explain how combat rank "levels-up" a player's character in the traditional sense of a video game* and unlocks "End-Game Content". In what manner does "kill count" level-up a character in ED and increase a player character's innate abilities. Please explain.

* Character leveling-up: Progressive increase in innate abilities of the player's character through increased health, lives, HP, DPS, Output Power, Strength, Stamina, Endurance, Mana, etc.



At best a pretty weak argument that a few engineers can be unlocked early in the game or completely ignored. "Dangerous" is the highest rank required to unlock one engineer, a one-time event and although gives access to some equipment upgrade does not increase the innate abilities of the player's character. Technically true, but very weak argument and not relevant to the discussion you were replying to.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

As per the discussion you are replying to please explain how combat rank "levels-up" a player's character in the traditional sense of a video game* and unlocks "End-Game Content". In what manner does "kill count" level-up a character in ED and increase a player character's innate abilities. Please explain.

* Character leveling-up: Progressive increase in innate abilities of the player's character through increased health, lives, HP, DPS, Output Power, Strength, Stamina, Endurance, Mana, etc.



At best a pretty weak argument that a few engineers can be unlocked early in the game or completely ignored. "Dangerous" is the highest rank required to unlock one engineer, a one-time event and although gives access to some equipment upgrade does not increase the innate abilities of the player's character. Technically true, but very weak argument and not relevant to the discussion you were replying to.

Higher rank spawns higher ranked enemies. The toxibois of the bulletsponge brigade. So once you're levelled you are kindly incentivised to do the apecrap job of mat collection in order to keep the power level in a balance. It's a real bad "progression" system, I agree - but that's what we got. And I don't find it engaging in any form. It's rather the opposite, because it isn't actually encouraging to play but to just let it be. What's the point grinding stuff when all you'll be doing is what you were doing before anyway. With less effort, doodads and red tape.

 

[nemolomen]

... Xeno combat, where there are many layers of gates to unlock to be able to participate successfully....

A better example would be meaningful PvP...

One can get into successful, and fun, AX combat against scouts (solo) or interceptors (with friends) with nothing more than an unengineered Alliance Chieftain fitted with AX MultiCannons, lasers, repair/decon limpets, good shields, Xeno Scanner, Shutdown Field Neutralizer, and a bunch of hull reinforcements.

Sure Scouts do not pay much, and interceptors are very OP against this build.

It looks like this...

Source: https://youtu.be/L7ttjswp_NY


Yes, there are a LOT of mistakes in that video...I was learning...but still successful...

 

[Greasetrap42]

Higher rank spawns higher ranked enemies. The toxibois of the bulletsponge brigade. So once you're levelled you are kindly incentivised to do the apecrap job of mat collection in order to keep the power level in a balance.

Is there game content a player is gated (locked) from because of their combat rank?

I believe a cmdr ranked "Harmless" can engage in elite level missions, Haz Res, Combat Zones, and PvP.

Can a solo cmdr ranked "Harmless" engage in Xeno hunting? Will stuff spawn? I don't know.

Edit: Are there other activities a cmdr ranked "Harmless" can not participate in? (gated, locked, impossible to engage) I am curious.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Is there game content a player is gated (locked) from because of their combat rank?

I believe a cmdr ranked "Harmless" can engage in elite level missions, Haz Res, Combat Zones, and PvP.

Can a solo cmdr ranked "Harmless" engage in Xeno hunting? Will stuff spawn? I don't know.

Disingenious question. Can a player go to any place in Gothic as level 1 character. Of course they can. Most don't. And there is a reason for that everyone knows about, but you seem to just ignore it.

 

[Greasetrap42]

Disingenious question. Can a player go to any place in Gothic as level 1 character. Of course they can. Most don't. And there is a reason for that everyone knows about, but you seem to just ignore it.

? No its not. An experienced player can have an alt with 5 billion credits, a Fleet Carrier, a combat corvette, and have a combat rank of "Harmless".

The entire point of the mini-discussion you are responding to is whether End-Game Content is gated (locked) behind kill count or combat rank.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

? No its not. An experienced player can have an alt with 5 billion credits, a Fleet Carrier, a combat corvette, and have a combat rank of "Harmless".

The entire point of the mini-discussion you are responding to is whether End-Game Content is gated (locked) behind kill count or combat rank.

We were taling about levelled accounts, no? Not about harmless. Rank up, you get the bullet sponge. If you don't engineer, there is your gating. Have fun with your peashooters.

 

[Darkfyre99]

We were taling about levelled accounts, no? Not about harmless. Rank up, you get the bullet sponge. If you don't engineer, there is your gating. Have fun with your peashooters.

The whole conversation is starting to remind me of this:

12 Up a Level, Down a Level - Giant in the Playground Games

 

[Greasetrap42]

We were taling about levelled accounts, no?

There were some earlier posts I was responding to where people were claiming that "End-Game Content" is gated behind kill counts, and that players "level-up" based on combat rank. Eventually the discussion leveled-down like @Darkfyre99 's funny comic link.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

Is there game content a player is gated (locked) from because of their combat rank?

I believe a cmdr ranked "Harmless" can engage in elite level missions, Haz Res, Combat Zones, and PvP.

Can a solo cmdr ranked "Harmless" engage in Xeno hunting? Will stuff spawn? I don't know.

Edit: Are there other activities a cmdr ranked "Harmless" can not participate in? (gated, locked, impossible to engage) I am curious.

Yes

 

[Tikanderoga]

But in this case, "XP" doesn't actually make you more powerful. It doesn't make you hit harder. It doesn't increase your defense. It doesn't add new skills. It doesn't even unlock access to new missions, that can only be done by gaining reputation with a faction.

What it does, at best, is open up access to a few engineers, none of which have modifications that are exclusive to them. At worst, it makes NPCs more difficult to kill, especially if you cheesed your way up to that rank using an internet approved farming method.

That is true. From that point of view, you could engage in "end game" from day 1 if you wanted to (assuming you would call long range expedition or Xeno hunting end game).
Nothing is locked away (other than an engineer) and there are not levels. Which just adds to the homogeneous grue that is Elite.

 

[Riverside]

That is true. From that point of view, you could engage in "end game" from day 1 if you wanted to (assuming you would call long range expedition or Xeno hunting end game).
Nothing is locked away (other than an engineer) and there are not levels. Which just adds to the homogeneous grue that is Elite.

I have long believed that ED is designed around a player in a Cobra MkIII. NPC difficulty, cargo capacity, jump ranges, all that stuff.

The game can be done in a Sidewinder but it's a severely compromised long term multi-role ship. Most tasks can be done more optimally in a dedicated ship too.

But you can do it all (I'm sure there are exceptions, deliberately challenging stuff like Thargoids & CZs come to mind) in a Cobra MkIII.

So maybe not from day 1, but not long after that a player will find themselves in a position where they have everything they need even if they don't realise that yet.

 

[Tikanderoga]

So maybe not from day 1, but not long after that a player will find themselves in a position where they have everything they need even if they don't realise that yet.

People have reached triple elite in a sidewinder, without ever buying a ship.
So the statement that you can do everything in a sidewinder still stands. It will just take you longer than in a bigger or better, more dedicated ship. But it can be done. Personally, i wouldn't do it, but some people like or need this kind of challenge.
People have solo defeated a Hydra in a Sidewinder. Engineered of course, but still feasible.

 

[[VR] wi03016]

The question I ask myself is this - will I play for another 10 years without any major mechanical/storytelling updates, is Elite enough of a simulation at this stage? The answer is a reserved “Yeah”. Yeah, I’ll login once in a while for the latest thargoid brawl. Or, more often, if Frontier deems worthy to revive mining to the levels where it becomes interesting again. pvp with a capable opponent? I could lose myself in that for a couple evenings. Or, just gliding in SLF in VR in some godforsaken canyon for a couple hours, or tinkering under the hood of some unfinished ship. In the end of the day, I’ve accumulated presence in the game to keep coming back for small stuffs that make me happy.

What about you? In a hypothetical, which reads No new content in next 1000 years!! will you likely be checking back? And if Yes, for what?

no new content no come back. From time to time I check if something happen but after EDO the game seems to be end of life.