Well it should be affected since the tripple hotspots themselves might be worse. But it is hard to say yet how much worse.
Subsurface mining builds
- Thread starter [VR] Orodruin
- Start date
Well it should be affected since the tripple hotspots themselves might be worse. But it is hard to say yet how much worse.
![[VR] Orodruin](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/237/237188.jpg?1614840532){kind=avatar}
It is not 100% clear. The peripherals of the hotspots have diminishing effect as compared to the center. The patch notes indicate that this effect has been increased so I would expect it to affect all types of mining, not only sub-surface. It remains to be seen exactly how this affects Kirre's Icebox in terms of LTD content.
This is not a nerf. This is just a sane adjustment.
This is not true. Any change that makes an activity less profitable is a nerf regardless of whether it was insanely profitable or not. A sane adjustment can still be a nerf.
That's a question of Terminology. "Nerf" often comes with a negative association though.
So let's see:
Urban Dictionary: nerf
nerf: To make worse or weaken, usually in the [context] of [weakening] something in order to [balance] out a game.
www.urbandictionary.com
I guess you're right and it's indeed a neutral term.
But since I think the effect of increasing sanity is much more important than the decrease, I still won't call it that.
Something you have not mentioned, is number of seats available for multicrew.
This can be a very useful way for a miner to share some of their sales profit to squad members or friends.
This makes the Alliance Crusader a very useful ship to consider for a subsurface mining role.
64t of cargo easily available, agile and small for a medium ship, and can fit a large amount of mining tools in good locations for aiming.
And two spare seats for multicrew.
Overlooked vessel that shines in this role.
This can be a very useful way for a miner to share some of their sales profit to squad members or friends.
This makes the Alliance Crusader a very useful ship to consider for a subsurface mining role.
64t of cargo easily available, agile and small for a medium ship, and can fit a large amount of mining tools in good locations for aiming.
And two spare seats for multicrew.
Overlooked vessel that shines in this role.
A lot of folks are probably going to whine and moan about this whole LTD issue, but the update changes seem reasonable on first glance. I personally enjoy mining but it's supposed to be a game mechanic, not a golden ticket to a FC. I'll still be able to afford to do the things I like doing in ED - flying, buying, killing and dying. LOL
Perhaps better tagging @john willi than quoting my post.
It is reasonable and covers the most basic stuff. Not sure I would call it "Advanced", but it will get you going just fine and the advice is generally sound.
This is a nice collection of builds, thanks for compiling it.
I was disappointed not to see a Type-10 build mentioned though - it's an interesting blend of strengths. The huge variety of hardpoints is quite nice for mining: for subsurface I recommend SSDs in the forward C1s and the lower C2 (all nearly on the centerline), mining lasers in the upper C2s for topping off, and offensive weaponry in the four C3s for Corvette-grade NPC elimination. It's a viable option for long range mining, although it doesn't support as many collectors as one might like, but also works well as a heavily armed carrier-based mining platform.
I was disappointed not to see a Type-10 build mentioned though - it's an interesting blend of strengths. The huge variety of hardpoints is quite nice for mining: for subsurface I recommend SSDs in the forward C1s and the lower C2 (all nearly on the centerline), mining lasers in the upper C2s for topping off, and offensive weaponry in the four C3s for Corvette-grade NPC elimination. It's a viable option for long range mining, although it doesn't support as many collectors as one might like, but also works well as a heavily armed carrier-based mining platform.
I use a similar Python build /w the class 4 shield, but I swap the size 3 collector /w a Cargo bay for 6 collectors & 200 cargo. 6 keep up with my mining just fine. While they're cleaning up after the last couple pops I'm lining up to prospect another rock. I also equip it for Core/Surface /w a seismic & Abrasion and do away with the lasers. I don't pass up LTD surface deposits or LTD/vOpal cores.
IMO Jump range isn't as huge a thing /w sub-surface & Core since you just need a suitable hotspot near your selling station. No need for longer trips from overlaps.
I was surprised the first time trying SSD for LTD and it spitting out 6 chunks at a time. I've done SSD for other deposits for missions (more fun use of my time than finding selling stations on some database) and those typically only spit out 2 or so chunks per pop. LTD are definitely on the generous side.
I like to let the drill scroll through relatively deep, letting 6 or so "bands" pass, or roughly 3/4 depth and work the rock from back to front. This gives you a preview of where the drill speeds up and slows down so when you get to that spot you have a better chance of hitting it. The different size bands don't provide more chunks, each gives 6. I don't know if they give "heavier" chunks or not. Spinning rocks are probably the most annoying thing for SSD as you have to lead the rocket and can only get 1 or 2 rockets in before the deposit moves out of LoS. For slow rotation it's pretty easy to keep maneuvering between/during shots. When dealing with rotators, I find it helps if your missile is on a off-centre pylon to rotate so that it is on the trailing side of the rotation. I.e. if the missile is on the left side, have the rock rotating right to left. Having it on the leading side seemed to lead to more bounces with shots a tad too early.
IMO Jump range isn't as huge a thing /w sub-surface & Core since you just need a suitable hotspot near your selling station. No need for longer trips from overlaps.
I was surprised the first time trying SSD for LTD and it spitting out 6 chunks at a time. I've done SSD for other deposits for missions (more fun use of my time than finding selling stations on some database) and those typically only spit out 2 or so chunks per pop. LTD are definitely on the generous side.
I like to let the drill scroll through relatively deep, letting 6 or so "bands" pass, or roughly 3/4 depth and work the rock from back to front. This gives you a preview of where the drill speeds up and slows down so when you get to that spot you have a better chance of hitting it. The different size bands don't provide more chunks, each gives 6. I don't know if they give "heavier" chunks or not. Spinning rocks are probably the most annoying thing for SSD as you have to lead the rocket and can only get 1 or 2 rockets in before the deposit moves out of LoS. For slow rotation it's pretty easy to keep maneuvering between/during shots. When dealing with rotators, I find it helps if your missile is on a off-centre pylon to rotate so that it is on the trailing side of the rotation. I.e. if the missile is on the left side, have the rock rotating right to left. Having it on the leading side seemed to lead to more bounces with shots a tad too early.
This is not correct. Thinner bands generally give more fragments. The number of fragments is also not fixed for each resource width. For example, while collecting data, I have seen 1-bar resources spit out anywhere between 5 and 8 fragments (post-patch, it was more before). Here is my reddit post regarding the pre-patch distributions (note how crazy it used to be, with up to 11 fragments per missile):
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteMiners/comments/h9n8yw/subsurface_mining_fragments_released_per_missile/
Edit: It should be mentioned that 6 fragments is by far the most common number of fragments from 1-bars and 2-bars post-patch from the data I have collected so far.
I haven't seen this at all with LTDs, 1, 2, and 3 bands have consistently pumped out 6 fragments each... Still I'm not being scientific, just observing the chunks as they pop out. The tonnage of each fragment does vary observed when watching the collectors bring them into the refinery.
I'll try a bit more patient run the next trip out and collect one pop at a time to see for sure. I have seen some variance on the # of "pops" you get from a deposit, the typical average is 6 missiles per deposit, lowest I've gotten so far is 4, and most is 8.
By comparison with water deposits I was only getting 2 chunks per missile on 1 & 2 band pops.
Unless something has changed very recently, this is not true. The number of chunks is randomized somewhat, but the average number is greater the narrower the blue band. In the Col 285 LTD3, this ranges from about 6-7 chunks for single-bar deposits, down to about 2 chunks for 4-bar deposits. Moreover, the average productivity appears to be dependent on the richness of the location, which is probably why you have seen more chunks per deposit in the LTD3 than in more normal hotspots elsewhere.
I have made dedicated research runs where I have popped one missile at a time, using a VoiceAttack command to screenshot where (at what depth and what the width of the resource was) I have detonated the missile and then screenshotting the yield afterwards. I have around 200 missiles worth of usable data from those runs (sometimes the VA script fails - not that often but it happens). Generally, it is very difficult to count the fragments that pop out just from visual inspection since they tend to overlap. I tried this when I started data collection and quickly moved on to other methods.
The deposit health (which determines the number of missiles it can support before collapsing) I have seen vary from 3 to 9.
I stand pleasantly corrected... I just finished a more carefully observed trip with the contacts and waiting for the collectors to sweep up between missiles. 1 and 2 bands were releasing 7 chunks reliably, occasionally I got 6 from a 2 band. 4 bands I got 2 & 3 chunks. Unfortunately I only found 4 subsurface deposits... When looking for them they're nowhere to be found... Did find 4 LTD and 2 vOpal Cores. During normal mining sessions I tend to prioritize 2 band shots. I will check more on 1 band to see how often it might yield more to justify the risk of missing it.
I don't know about missing, but this is a neglected dimension to consider - many of the large ships have hitboxes such that you need to be at a near standstill to fire a prospector and avoid it destroying itself by running into the hull. Much as I enjoy the T10 for mining, it sometimes manages to destroy prospector limpets even when it is standing still.
On a large ship you must consider and correct for the positioning of your hardpoints and your cargo scoop. When it comes to prospectors crashing into your ship it happens also in the Python and it is a matter of getting used to what you can and cannot do in terms of speed and positioning to successfully fire off a prospector. I can see how this can be a serious problem with flight assist on. I fly FA off and for each ship you can learn the best angles to fire prospectors at in order to avoid them crashing into your ship. I would assume similar effects could be achieved in FA on by use of the directional thrusters (but one of the advantages of FA off is that it naturally decouples your velocity vector from your firing direction).
That being said, I have now had the opportunity to do some testing post-patch and I realised I did not post updates here regarding the viability of some of the builds.
With the patch, both the frequency at which you encounter sub-surface deposits as well as the yield from each successful missile were decreased. This has two main effects to consider when making mining builds (I am considering builds for the intended gameplay - If you want can slap a fighter bay in an Anaconda, put on a few sub-surface missile launchers, and respawn deposits to your heart's delight, but it is not what I want to focus on):
- It takes longer to locate new deposits. This means that speed and agility becomes more of a premium quality as ratio of the time spent on the hunt for new deposits and the time spent mining the deposits increases.
- Collection of extracted fragments is not as intense as pre-patch. This generally means that fewer active collectors will be necessary to keep up with the fragment extraction.
I still want to do some more Corvette mining in order to get more statistics to ensure I am not just on a bad streak when it comes to proximity of deposits, but this is my initial post-patch analysis.
I'm sticking with my Vette build.... I built a T-9 and the outer medium hard points did my head in. That and the fact when I went to the other side of a roid I hit a extracted rock and the ship folded like a cheap deckchair, losing 200 diamonds. (despite having 6A engineered shields)