Supercruise Rework
- Thread starter CMDR DragonHorn
- Start date
You're not wasting 10 minutes because of slowing down. You waste 10 minutes because very rarely is a USS actually worth investigating, while most of them are dead content, not worth even spending 10 seconds on. But that's a completely different topic.
Edit: also, it's not like you decelerate for 5 minutes when selecting a USS. The process already now is much faster and indeed, when looking at the numbers, already completely impausible on how the pilot could ever survive it. But when not watching the numbers too closely, it gives a kind of believeable experience of slowing down and accelerating. If acceleration and deceleration values are increased so much to make this thread plausible, we'd be close to "throttle setting IS the speed", making things just even more arcade-style than before.
It just doesn't sound attractive to me.
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I'm curious about how Apex is going to work in Odyssey.
If it takes the same amount of time as current supercruise travels, all while the player is 100% a spectator, it will be a huge, unbelievable fail. On the other hand, if using Apex is significantly faster than using our own ships in supercruise, there will be an uproar (it would also be completely illogical, but that never stopped FD). So I suspect there will be some tweaking to supercruise travel in Odyssey.
Worst case scenario, if Apex is significantly faster than using our own ships but supercruise remains the same as now, I'll just use Apex
Worst case scenario, if Apex is significantly faster than using our own ships but supercruise remains the same as now, I'll just use Apex
In contrast, i'll still use my ship. This is what i play the game for: flying spaceships. Not walking around inside some space station...
I guess I have to comment on this thread. I have to say I was absolutely horrified to hear Obsidian Ant's recent comment about wanting the supercruise speeds, and in particular the deceleration affects around stellar bodies, to be radically changed (and for that to be his top request for Odyssey).
Brrrrr. Gives me chills just thinking about the possibility that someone at Frontier might listen to that.
So, what can I say, I like the fact that it takes time to get places and, unlike my good friend OA, do think it's an important factor in expressing the size and scale of space in general and the topology of individual systems in particular (it's also a very important factor in establishing the general pace of the game, something I think you change at your peril).
In theory I wouldn't be averse to increasing the SC acceleration rate a bit (maybe up to 1.5x) but in practice, since that would utterly invalidate every Elite: Dangerous inter-system speed record ever set (every Buckyball scoreboard, every Hutton Run scoreboard and every other other independent speed leaderboard centered around supercruise dynamics that's ever been recorded) I have to say ...
DEAR GOD PLEASE NO!
Brrrrr.
Gives me chills just thinking about the possibility that someone at Frontier might listen to that.So, what can I say, I like the fact that it takes time to get places and, unlike my good friend OA, do think it's an important factor in expressing the size and scale of space in general and the topology of individual systems in particular (it's also a very important factor in establishing the general pace of the game, something I think you change at your peril).
In theory I wouldn't be averse to increasing the SC acceleration rate a bit (maybe up to 1.5x) but in practice, since that would utterly invalidate every Elite: Dangerous inter-system speed record ever set (every Buckyball scoreboard, every Hutton Run scoreboard and every other other independent speed leaderboard centered around supercruise dynamics that's ever been recorded) I have to say ...
DEAR GOD PLEASE NO!
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It's already a splat situation, I assume the technology uses some method to stop that from happening already, and being as it's sci fi tech, the "realism" factor isn't very relevant.
So, yes, I do think it would help the game if we didn't need to spend as much time slowing down to get into a signal source, and speeding up back out of that signal source, so that we could check out various things along the way without it making the journey more arduous than it needs to be.
I have no real problem with the time between planets/stations etc. It's just that the current set up makes investigating things along the way a bit of a... crotch throb.
Not gonna read 7 pages but just wanted to say...
I wouldn't mind an in-system jump for hopping between large gravity wells. Like, not for jumping planet to planet or for avoiding interdictions, but to wipe out the multiple minutes of zero interaction when travelling to a station at a distant binary tens or hundreds of thousands of light second out from the drop-down point. Those long minutes where nothing ever happens and no input is needed.
It could work only on stars, and only when the body is over a certain distance from the primary. If we're too fond of the Hutton ordeal to give it up, make an exception, the population there have a sentimental attachment to their sense of isolation and don't take kindly to the new in-system jump tech, so they install an FSD jammer at Proxima Centauri. Or something.
Or make it work with Nav Beacons. It only works where the system is populated and has installed a nav beacon at the outer star. Though that screws explorers a bit, that's a more leisurely activity anyway.
I wouldn't mind an in-system jump for hopping between large gravity wells. Like, not for jumping planet to planet or for avoiding interdictions, but to wipe out the multiple minutes of zero interaction when travelling to a station at a distant binary tens or hundreds of thousands of light second out from the drop-down point. Those long minutes where nothing ever happens and no input is needed.
It could work only on stars, and only when the body is over a certain distance from the primary. If we're too fond of the Hutton ordeal to give it up, make an exception, the population there have a sentimental attachment to their sense of isolation and don't take kindly to the new in-system jump tech, so they install an FSD jammer at Proxima Centauri. Or something.
Or make it work with Nav Beacons. It only works where the system is populated and has installed a nav beacon at the outer star. Though that screws explorers a bit, that's a more leisurely activity anyway.
"Frame shifting." We already accelerate/decelerate a lot faster out in the black away from things in supercruise, so from an inertia perspective, I don't think it matters much if at all.
I think around things it should be close to the same current rates, just maybe scale up faster the further you get out from or between things. Personally, I'm actually fine with the way it is now too, but having something like a gravity well grid overlay would be a nice bit of something to play around with.
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I think they feel like they did, by implementing the FSS.
Sandro talked about "making it so some of those long journeys aren't as necessary" FSS did that by allowing you to scan stuff from a long way away.
So, like with "Volcanism" Frontier implementation, and peoples expectations are... somewhat divergent. (people expect volcanos, they get little poofs from smoke holes)
Man, they sure showed us.
I know that the current rates are also above and beyond any "realistic" acceleration and deceleration. Yet i am glad we have those. While the values are highly unrealistic, they presence in my eyes really improves the "sim" feeling of the game. (As much a player controlled spaceship with faster than light capability ever can be a sim. )
Where i fully agree is the aspect of having some overlays, showing gravity wells and the likes. It would be great to have that. To avoid the "but i can't see anything any more, it's all overlay" problem, it would perhaps make sense to put these overlays into the analysis mode. It would immediately make that mode more useful, while not messing up the view in normal operations.
Parking in supercruise to go exploring is, in my opinion, one of the worst possible ideas that have been imposingly implemented. People say the ADS honk was bad game-play design, maybe, but at least it wasn't counterproductive and contrary to a spaceship flying game. The only thing the FSS game-play is good at is the meta game and maybe scratching an itch for people who like playing with bits and bobs in mini games, because that's the sort of game they were looking for when they got this game... apparently.
Don't make me dig out my old "Why the FSS is great!" letterParking in supercruise to go exploring is, in my opinion, one of the worst possible ideas that have been imposingly implemented. People say the ADS honk was bad game-play design, maybe, but at least it wasn't counterproductive and contrary to a spaceship flying game. The only thing the FSS game-play is good at is the meta game and maybe scratching an itch for people who like playing with bits and bobs in mini games, because that's the sort of game they were looking for when they got this game... apparently.
OK... but regarding the topic of this thread, I don't think parking in supercruise has been particularly beneficial. Just saying.Don't make me dig out my old "Why the FSS is great!" letter
If I had it my way, there would be no supercruise - just normal space and hyperspace (which exits a safe distance from your destination, any destination).OK... but regarding the topic of this thread, I don't think parking in supercruise has been particularly beneficial. Just saying.
Interdiction relies on supercruise ... the longer the supercruise, the more dangerous the journey can be;
Hyperdiction (by Thargoids) relies on the hyperjump sequence, specifically the gap before jumping out.
These could be shortened, especially jumps where no living thing (alien or human) exists to spoil the dangerous passage.
Hyperdiction (by Thargoids) relies on the hyperjump sequence, specifically the gap before jumping out.
These could be shortened, especially jumps where no living thing (alien or human) exists to spoil the dangerous passage.
Three options or 'suggestions'...
1) In-system FSD jumps to star-class bodies. This means certain systems become far easier to traverse, but far from a majority. Gas giants, for example, often make up the distant 'central' body. This sort of FSD ability wouldn't be of use. From a lore perspective, it would be hard to explain why an in-system jump works for some bodies and not others. Never the less, this is an old suggestion and one that is often liked.
2) FSD Engineering options for super-cruise. Providing an alternative to just longer ranges, super cruise engineering would affect acceleration and deceleration at the cost of mass and/or power (the additional equipment needed for fine-tuning is your lore reason). This gives players more choice - and weight of that choice - in engineering a FSD. Traders might prefer this over range, and combat pilots might prefer it over spool up gains. For explorers and passengers, it'd be a tough call between range or quickly reaching bodies in a system.
3) Eliminate 50% of supercruise: Remote Mission Completion & Acquisition. Many missions don't actually involve 'returning' something. Combat and data missions are an excellent example. By allowing remote turn in on missions that don't involve any cargo or passenger, many mission types cease requiring docking. Credit gains would be balanced accordingly, with trade and passengers being more lucrative due to the extra time involved, while combat would rely more on the fast-pace of chewing through missions - something most combat pilots would prefer anyways.
I support all three of these, and technically all three simultaneously. I think remote mission boards would make a ton of sense and not take away from the gameplay loops at all. I'm always for engineering choices that are actually choices rather than just min-maxxed benefits with an obvious 'best' choice. In-system jumping is an old request and I think sensible if kept to only large stellar (or star) bodies.
1) In-system FSD jumps to star-class bodies. This means certain systems become far easier to traverse, but far from a majority. Gas giants, for example, often make up the distant 'central' body. This sort of FSD ability wouldn't be of use. From a lore perspective, it would be hard to explain why an in-system jump works for some bodies and not others. Never the less, this is an old suggestion and one that is often liked.
2) FSD Engineering options for super-cruise. Providing an alternative to just longer ranges, super cruise engineering would affect acceleration and deceleration at the cost of mass and/or power (the additional equipment needed for fine-tuning is your lore reason). This gives players more choice - and weight of that choice - in engineering a FSD. Traders might prefer this over range, and combat pilots might prefer it over spool up gains. For explorers and passengers, it'd be a tough call between range or quickly reaching bodies in a system.
3) Eliminate 50% of supercruise: Remote Mission Completion & Acquisition. Many missions don't actually involve 'returning' something. Combat and data missions are an excellent example. By allowing remote turn in on missions that don't involve any cargo or passenger, many mission types cease requiring docking. Credit gains would be balanced accordingly, with trade and passengers being more lucrative due to the extra time involved, while combat would rely more on the fast-pace of chewing through missions - something most combat pilots would prefer anyways.
I support all three of these, and technically all three simultaneously. I think remote mission boards would make a ton of sense and not take away from the gameplay loops at all. I'm always for engineering choices that are actually choices rather than just min-maxxed benefits with an obvious 'best' choice. In-system jumping is an old request and I think sensible if kept to only large stellar (or star) bodies.
I dislike it when people suggest things go in utility mounts because "less shield boosters"
Utility mounts are the most restricted slot, and the smaller ships have barely any, they also have some of the cooler items like wake scanner and manifest scanner and such.
Not everyone fills em with shield boosters!