Ta-ra

[-VR- Max Factor]

Making a dent on the milkyway. Finding that special something thats so good it buys you explorer fame. You dont even know what it is till you find it and you need to be able to "trawl" systems for it.

Yes. And I would like to discover it myself instead of having it handed to me on a plate with a 5 second press of a button.

And as we have explorerd less then 0.2% of yhe milky way so far we are never going to make a dent in it. It's a completely illogical reason not to like the new mechanic.

 

[Sysmon]

Well that im not going to tune and zoom every single system looking for things. Its just too much.

The much disputed and picked over maths that i will stick to is that if you disregard other time sinks and focus only on time spent scanning - accepting an average time of 4 minutes for 40 bodies and accepting a very rough 40 as an average number then you can scan 15 systems with the god honk in 75 seconds (5 seconds per system). The same 15 will take 1 hour in the FSS. No thankyou.

Edit: and im sorry to edit and cut any arguments off but you could cut that in 4 and call it 15 minutes and its still too long

To misquote Treebeard: Nothing is worth doing if it doesn't take a looooong time to do.

S

 

[Burke]

To misquote Treebeard: Nothing is worth doing if it doesn't take a looooong time to do.

S

It is true in some cases. There are posts in the beta picture thread. Just another set of guysers.... unremarkable.... etc etc. They are already bored cause its too easy to find them now. Before probes every find was like a chest of gold. Seriously genuinly saddned by what they have done.

 

[Burke]

This is true. I wholeheartedly hope that's just some silly over the top distribution for beta testing purposes. Otherwise just another brilliant way of shooting all programming efforts into their own knees.

What the guysers? na they are everywhere in live aswell just really hard to locate.

 

[Burke]

Bold statement. How would you know?

Assuming you dont mean planets have suddenly got acne cause of the number of sites...

Cause i went and found them. You go into a system full of gas giants you could have 50 moons half of which are volcanic. You can go into one system and find loads of guyser sites. They are on normal planets aswell as moons but the larger the planet the harder to locate they are. The galaxy is literally full of volcanic sites. Im pretty sure people have gone and found multiple sites on planets and stuff but i wouldnt swear to it.

Edit: even if there is suddenly loads on one planet. I mean we dont really know they might have been there all along...

 

[Saool]

Well that im not going to tune and zoom every single system looking for things. Its just too much.

The much disputed and picked over maths that i will stick to is that if you disregard other time sinks and focus only on time spent scanning - accepting an average time of 4 minutes for 40 bodies and accepting a very rough 40 as an average number then you can scan 15 systems with the god honk in 75 seconds (5 seconds per system). The same 15 will take 1 hour in the FSS. No thankyou.

Edit: and im sorry to edit and cut any arguments off but you could cut that in 4 and call it 15 minutes and its still too long

Genuine question. How is the new system any worse than the old one for finding things? In fact it is better. In the old system you would not find anything special with a jump and honk unless it was within 1000Ls of your entry point. So how would you find something special if it was sat at a planet orbiting the second star, 350,000Ls away? Your only method of finding that would be to fly to within 1000Ls of every body in the system.

If by 'finding things' you mean a water world or an Earthlike, then sure, the new method take longer. If you mean finding the far more interesting stuff like generation ships, facilities, crashed ships and other mysteries, the new method is vastly quicker.

 

[ITZC0ATL]

not to mention the destruction of good will and community, I mean, look around, does this look like the exploration forum? Or does it look like DD?

Very true, I've never seen the exploration community so heated or divided before.

Personally, I've given up on FDev getting it right and just tried not to be as invested any more. It's disappointing, but easier than trying to engage with in the beta forum with the hopes that things will change. They seldon listen, and they gave us no chance to get meaningful feedback in anyway.

The existing ADS should never have been in the game, but that doesn't change the fact that it was. FDev should (IMO) have built on the existing mechanics on not tore them up, and they would have prevented (perhaps) a lot of peeed of explorers. However, the new system is workable and won't stop me from exploring personally. I just have to shift my focus and enjoy what the new system has to offer.

 

[Sunyavadin]

What the guysers? na they are everywhere in live as well just really hard to locate.

Bold statement. How would you know?

Spoken like someone who has never taken the time to try and eyeball a planet's PoIs.

*EDIT*
And also someone who doesn't pay attention to the exploration forum.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...Fumarole-Location-Catalog-and-Data-Collection
Lots of people have put in the effort of finding as many of these sites as possible, and they're all over. But the act of finding them in the live build is what makes them so "rare"

 

[Sunyavadin]

Genuine question. How is the new system any worse than the old one for finding things? In fact it is better. In the old system you would not find anything special with a jump and honk unless it was within 1000Ls of your entry point. So how would you find something special if it was sat at a planet orbiting the second star, 350,000Ls away? Your only method of finding that would be to fly to within 1000Ls of every body in the system.

If by 'finding things' you mean a water world or an Earthlike, then sure, the new method take longer. If you mean finding the far more interesting stuff like generation ships, facilities, crashed ships and other mysteries, the new method is vastly quicker.

What we mean, is finding the interesting things Stellar Forge throws up. Stuff crafted by Frontier like crash sites, brain trees, etc. you've seen one, you've seen them all. And they just got massively devalued by the new system anyway, since no longer having to eyeball planets to find them (Absolutely the most convenient improvement of the new system, even if they did lazily just make it Mass Effect 2) basically takes away the rarity, so there's just no interest to be had in them.
ELWs and whatever, eh, who cares? It's just another planet. No great loss. Now, if that ELW was orbiting a gas giant like Dryao Broae HR-T D4-582 A1? That would be a find. But spotting stuff like that, those one in a billion planets, just got a lot harder.

 

[Rat Catcher]

But spotting stuff like that, those one in a billion planets, just got a lot harder.

One in a billion - so there are only 400 of those out there and now they are harder to find? That makes looking for a needle in a haystack as easy as spotting a red car.

But seriously - how has it been made harder?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

What we mean, is finding the interesting things Stellar Forge throws up. Stuff crafted by Frontier like crash sites, brain trees, etc. you've seen one, you've seen them all. And they just got massively devalued by the new system anyway, since no longer having to eyeball planets to find them (Absolutely the most convenient improvement of the new system, even if they did lazily just make it Mass Effect 2) basically takes away the rarity, so there's just no interest to be had in them.

They are not rare, it is just very rare to find them in the old way because it is so tedious and boring that hardly anyone bothered. Saying that, I do agree that the new system of probing planets now makes it too easy. I have said from the beginning that I would prefer search zones instead of pinpoint coordinates. Once you scan them with the composition scanner is when you get the pinpoint coordinates.

ELWs and whatever, eh, who cares? It's just another planet. No great loss. Now, if that ELW was orbiting a gas giant like Dryao Broae HR-T D4-582 A1? That would be a find. But spotting stuff like that, those one in a billion planets, just got a lot harder.

The new FSS is not hard to use in the slightest, but will take a bit of time to master. The only difference is that you have to find these amazing rarities with the scanner instead of having it handed to you on a plate with the old God honk.

So instead of having all those rare discoveries handed to you on a plate with a 5 second press of a button, you need to find them with the FSS, which in my view makes it a much more rewarding activity when I do actually find one.

 

[Sunyavadin]

One in a billion - so there are only 400 of those out there and now they are harder to find? That makes looking for a needle in a haystack as easy as spotting a red car.

But seriously - how has it been made harder?

The rarest of things, you increase the odds of discovery by searching the largest quantity of systems in the shortest amount of time. It's not rocket science.
Getting the information to see that you're not in a system with something like that used to take seconds, now it takes minutes.

 

[Burke]

The only difference is that you have to find these amazing rarities with the scanner instead of having it handed to you on a plate with the old God honk.

Actually the new way you have to uncover the system before you can tell there is nothing to find.

 

[Sunyavadin]

the new way you have to uncover the system before you can tell there is nothing to find.

Yep. It's making the common stuff easier to find, and the rarer stuff harder to find.

 

[Burke]

They are not rare, it is just very rare to find them in the old way because it is so tedious and boring that hardly anyone bothered.

No max... because it took a level of skill and effort that you were unable to master. And the terrible conclusion starts to form that fdev have been led by the nose into destroying the exploration portion of their own game by people who never learned to play... wait for it.... at the expense of those who did learn to play and got good at it. You would expect them to know better, or at least do a u turn when it became obvious and yet they plow doggedly on with what has effectivly killed real exploration even before its made it to live. It could not have been worse had it been planned. And i have my suspicions.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Context. If this had been the case from the beginning, it would have been alright - maybe? - I can't say that lockpicking IN SPACE was how I would have originally envisaged exploration, but perhaps someone once thought that was a good idea. As things stand - the game as it really is and has been - what has happened is that FD, without listening to feedback, have a) reduced the amount of information immediately available to players and b) forced everyone to engage with a tedious mini game.

Well said. I hope FDev think carefully about this.

Lockpicking is the analogy I was going to use too, but in more detail. There are two main points:

1. Optional or Core. Most lockpicking-type mini-games are optional. Unfortunately, FDev have made theirs core for any explorer. It can't be avoided. Imagine in Skyrim if before we could enter every new room or area we were forced to pick a lock. Unfortunately, this is what FDev have done.

2. Risk vs Reward. Most mini-games are risk vs reward. Sure it might be as simplistic as breaking a lockpick, but the risk is there. Unfortunately, there is no risk in the FSS. It's just a procedure. There's no skill, and after a few dozen full scans most players will have the procedure close to optimised.

Plenty of players say they find the FSS procedure fun. I believe them. How long that lasts is yet to be seen.

I do not find it fun. I find it inane and childish, unworthy of the ED vision. I was very much looking forward to my next big exploration adventure, but the thought of doing the Hunt-the-Blue-Blob thing 2000+ times? Uh, no thanks.

Also note I've done lots of full FSS scans, in 5 separate sessions, across 3 beta updates and 10+ hours. I wanted to give it a real chance. The first 10 or 20 systems were fine as a learning and optimisation (of controls) experience, but it was all downhill from there.

FDev, sorry I have to give negative feedback. I understand the effort put into the new mechanics. I've already given detailed feedback for how the new exploration game play could have been designed (almost 2 months ago). It's useless me regurgitating that because it won't be done, but I fully intend to propose a version that incorporates the FSS in a modified way.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Not max... because it took a level of skill and effort that you were unable to master.

And now you insult me again. It is not skillful or difficult to master. It was tedious and boring. Oh I could do it easily enough, but I hated it.

And the terrible conclusion starts to form that fdev have been led by the nose into destroying the exploration portion of their own game by people who never learned to play... wait for it.... at the expense of those who did learn to play and got good at it. You would expect them to know better, or at least do a u turn when it became obvious and yet they plow doggedly on with what has effectivly killed real exploration even before its made it to live. It could not have been worse had it been planned. And i have my suspicions.

And again, now you insult FDev by saying they are not capable of creating their own game and have to be lead by the nose by other people.

And your posts are full of hypocrisy. At first you say it is going to slow down exploration and how are we to make a dent in exploring the milky way, and when they add something that speeds something up for you, you say it is killing exploration. So which one is it, do you want it faster or slower?

Yup, you still disgust me with your uncalled for insults at me, others and at FDev.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Yep. It's making the common stuff easier to find, and the rarer stuff harder to find.

LOL. Surely that is how it should be. At present the rare stuff is easy to find (God Honk), the common stuff is horrible to find (not hard, but tedious, boring and time consuming).

All you have done is there is say that FDev are now doing it right. Not too sure that was your intention though.

 

[Sunyavadin]

Most lockpicking-type mini-games are optional. Unfortunately, FDev have made theirs core for any explorer. It can't be avoided. Imagine in Skyrim if before we could enter every new room or area we were forced to pick a lock. Unfortunately, this is what FDev have done.

I think this best sums it up. It should be something which can be performed for additional reward. Which isn't hard to implement, just tie all monetary and discovery rewards to using it to scan stuff, and make it optional to do so just like flying to planets was in the old system. Then you're doing it to gain something additional in the systems where you choose to do so. Just like choosing to attempt to use your lockpicks on a chest or leave it in Skyrim. You still get to quickly glance around the house, decide there's nothing worth taking lying around, and leave. And hey, since this is an online multiplayer game, as an added bonus, someone else gets to be the one to open the chest!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Context. If this had been the case from the beginning, it would have been alright - maybe? - I can't say that lockpicking IN SPACE was how I would have originally envisaged exploration, but perhaps someone once thought that was a good idea. As things stand - the game as it really is and has been - what has happened is that FD, without listening to feedback, have a) reduced the amount of information immediately available to players and b) forced everyone to engage with a tedious mini game.

How is it lockpicking? It's more like actual discovery. Not like the old god honk which gave you nearly everything handed to you on a plate.

Some of the things that have been added are good, or at least neutral. Adding the ability to find surface features is great, although the implementation leaves something to be desired. It's just a shame that so much time and effort - not to mention the destruction of good will and community, I mean, look around, does this look like the exploration forum? Or does it look like DD? - have gone into something regressive.

I like the probing mechanics, what I do not like is that it pinpoints where the POI's are. I would much prefer a search area.

I think this best sums it up. It should be something which can be performed for additional reward. Which isn't hard to implement, just tie all monetary and discovery rewards to using it to scan stuff, and make it optional to do so just like flying to planets was in the old system. Then you're doing it to gain something additional in the systems where you choose to do so. Just like choosing to attempt to use your lockpicks on a chest or leave it in Skyrim. You still get to quickly glance around the house, decide there's nothing worth taking lying around, and leave. And hey, since this is an online multiplayer game, as an added bonus, someone else gets to be the one to open the chest!

That is the worst idea I think I have read so far and there have been a ton of bad ones. The FSS is nothing like lock picking.