Thargoid invasion - Next target systems?

[Ian Doncaster]

What are the odds of randomly covering all the unique planetary materials with the amount of sites they dropped?

With 45 sites? I think you'd have to be trying not to get all of them that way. Going on the geological grading (Boron, Lead, Rhenium ignored, Selenium is 2 not 4, otherwise as traded):
T1: guaranteed full set of five on the first planet, so long as it's not metal-rich and none of them are [1]
T2: eight types, every planet has three.
T3: six types, every planet has two.
T4: six types, every planet has one.

Even allowing for the types not having exactly the same rarities, purely random placement would be expected to have a full set of T4s >999/1000 times, and a full set of the others even more often. So if there's one missing that'd be very interesting, but probably nothing can be concluded if they're all there.

[1] Hardly surprising: they're incredibly rare - just three thin atmosphere metal-rich known within 250 LY of Sol; fewer than 20 known within 2500 LY.

 

[Phill P]

• Given a vessel which is impervious enough to Scythe attacks, how would one rate the credits rewards from the VIP Passenger missions after a bit of reputation is formed?

Now that all missions have returned to paying out based on faction reputation, the group missions add up. Some pay over 2 million once allied, most are for lower amounts but after you are allied with every faction and taking up to 20 missions at a time you're looking at decent cash. The mat rewards are still good as well.

We generally only mix it up and take personal transport missions if the group missions run out.

• Is it worth stopping to destroy a Scythe for the extra 4.5 million credits, or better not to delay the missions?

Not really, the time spent killing it you could be rescuing more people, plus the added risk of losing passengers you can't get back and being fined for failing the missions they have been stolen from. Additionally you would have to compromise your space with a collector limpet in case you need to recover people, unless you enjoy manual scooping.

We've decided it's not worth the extra time and risk to do it. Either rescue or kill, trying to both compromises both. Better to build a Scythe killing ship, carry an escape pod into an Alert and kill them that way.

For rescue ships your best weapon is the same as ever - speed and the ability to permaboost. 2 ECMs so you have one firing while the other is recharging. Even if it hits you with the first FSD missile before you can react, it will hit you with nothing else after that. Then just jump away.

• Is it better generally to stay with bulk Economy transport, to get more Business, more First, or a balanced proportion?
• It is worth the extra investment to harden a Saud Kruger vessel in return for making Luxury available?

See above.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

Thank you both for the Passenger overviews and anecdotes! It seems indeed very much that group transport is best, reaching generally Friendly matches the credits rate with Orthrus-hunting, and reaching generally Allied surpasses it. While one Orthrus signal is present, restarting Elite to repeat the signal may match that Allied rate of 150 million per journey, but eventually it incurs time between signals and time to restock.

Stopping to destroy a Scythe using an Anaconda seems to take around 40 seconds combat or around a minute total, which means a bit that I could have answered my own question there (apologies!), for that is merely decent but below the Orthrus rate so need not be considered either way. While carrying passengers, I think also that it helps to treat the journey as if it were Control space and avoid all Scythe interdictions—using Supercruise briefly only to get line-of-sight, then dropping to normal flight before charging a jump!

 

[Phill P]

Thank you both for the Passenger overviews and anecdotes! It seems indeed very much that group transport is best, reaching generally Friendly matches the credits rate with Orthrus-hunting, and reaching generally Allied surpasses it. While one Orthrus signal is present, restarting Elite to repeat the signal may match that Allied rate of 150 million per journey, but eventually it incurs time between signals and time to restock.

Stopping to destroy a Scythe using an Anaconda seems to take around 40 seconds combat or around a minute total, which means a bit that I could have answered my own question there (apologies!), for that is merely decent but below the Orthrus rate so need not be considered either way. While carrying passengers, I think also that it helps to treat the journey as if it were Control space and avoid all Scythe interdictions—using Supercruise briefly only to get line-of-sight, then dropping to normal flight before charging a jump!

2 ECMs and 4 PDs on the Conda and the Scythe gets nothing.

 

[Zador]

Not really, the time spent killing it you could be rescuing more people, plus the added risk of losing passengers you can't get back and being fined for failing the missions they have been stolen from. Additionally you would have to compromise your space with a collector limpet in case you need to recover people, unless you enjoy manual scooping.

I found I can't 100% escape hyperdictions by Scythes in my Anaconda, especially when there are 2, so decided to kill them. I've got better with the ECM to avoid passenger loss, but at least for now want the mats for the Azimuth MCs, and mixing running passengers with some combat keeps it interesting for me.

My Anaconda rescue build with 176 economy cabins can easily take on a hyperdiction by 2 scythes and collect the mats that drop and any lost passengers, and still get to the rescue ship in 4 jumps.

I find that doing back to back passenger mission reduces the pool (going back to the same station) so a bit of a delay to kill the Scythes doesn't really impact that much.

I've had group missions over 8MCr and many between 2-6MCr. This was all from McLeod Horizons in HIP 19157, Allied with all factions.

 

[Shurimal]

FWIW, Krait Phantom is completely safe from Scythes, being able to easily outrun them, the breach drones and can keep pace with the FSD containment missile. You could go shieldless, too--I just like an extra layer of insurance when doing EVACs. If you plan to fight the Scythes, shieldless is the way--Scythes won't use their lightning attack if you have no shield, meaning no random module reboots and no slowing down your ship. This setup (Azimuth AXMC-s) is really good at swatting Scythes, though MKII would have a bit more firepower at the cost of a bit less mobility. I have 59 Scythe plus one Glaive kills in Phantom this far.

Orca is even faster and carries the same amount of evacuees, but can't land on outposts.

 

[LilacLight]

This is probably just a terminology difference: all the barnacle matrix sites are on planets with a "Thin X" atmosphere, because otherwise they wouldn't be landable, so the sheet seems to have omitted the "Thin" qualifier throughout.

EDIT: yes, Arietis Sector KR-V b2-1 is listed as "Neon" on the sheet and "Thin Neon" on Spansh, for example

yup, exactly, in the local map the density (Thick / Thin) is not displayed and since we cannot land on bodies with "Thick" atmos atm, i tend to just omit the "Thin" part for clarity, plus it saves a bit of space on the sheet

 

[Phill P]

I found I can't 100% escape hyperdictions by Scythes in my Anaconda, especially when there are 2, so decided to kill them. I've got better with the ECM to avoid passenger loss, but at least for now want the mats for the Azimuth MCs, and mixing running passengers with some combat keeps it interesting for me.

My Anaconda rescue build with 176 economy cabins can easily take on a hyperdiction by 2 scythes and collect the mats that drop and any lost passengers, and still get to the rescue ship in 4 jumps.

I find that doing back to back passenger mission reduces the pool (going back to the same station) so a bit of a delay to kill the Scythes doesn't really impact that much.

I've had group missions over 8MCr and many between 2-6MCr. This was all from McLeod Horizons in HIP 19157, Allied with all factions.

Not sure why you can't outrun in a Conda, I can in mine, but if it works for you fair enough. For me it's time taken out and compromises like collector limpets taking up space that I don't really like. Respect if you manual scoop in the space cow.

For fun I stuck 4 Azimuth EX MCs in a hull tank FAS with one escape pod on board and went Scythe killing with it. It was fun. Nice way to finish off a system when we haven't quite got enough samples but another run would be overkill.

 

[Zador]

For me it's time taken out and compromises like collector limpets taking up space that I don't really like.

I was running pure passenger evacuation runs before the Scythes turned up, but losing 2 economy passengers to have limpets and a collector is hardly a compromise. I had docking computer and supercruise assist in those slots anyway. I often hit 20 missions without filling 176 cabins. Given I get hyperdicted on almost every jump out of the alert system I figured I might as well spend a couple of minutes killing the Scythe or two and get the mats and data. It also breaks up the repetitiveness of jumping and running.

 

[Phill P]

I was running pure passenger evacuation runs before the Scythes turned up, but losing 2 economy passengers to have limpets and a collector is hardly a compromise. I had docking computer and supercruise assist in those slots anyway. I often hit 20 missions without filling 176 cabins. Given I get hyperdicted on almost every jump out of the alert system I figured I might as well spend a couple of minutes killing the Scythe or two and get the mats and data. It also breaks up the repetitiveness of jumping and running.

That's all fair. The only other thing I would say is that as Scythes can hyperdict or interdict you anywhere on the way to the rescue ship - we had a hyperdiction 71ly from Raijin - that unless the scythe is in a war system with a progress bar killing them will do nothing for any progress. Another reason I prefer evasion.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

Victories in Isla, Tagin, Col 285 Sectors UH-C b13-0, SH-B b14-2, NG-E b12-1, AU-F b12-0, AU-F b12-5, AU-F b12-6 and AU-F b12-7, and HIPs 11111, 37906, 20899 and 19157! The last few Alerts remain, although mind that HIP 20491 has fallen behind by around half. My suggestion by numbers is to leave it for an Invasion, although recent weeks have seen some quite strong determination against that outcome!

All Alerts at 08:10 15th August 3309:
HIP 29596 Alert 98% *98.6% — Hadad 18 Ly, 2098 Ls starport, 3038 Ls outpost, 1550 Ls planet
Unktety Alert 70% *70.1% — Thor 25 Ly, 92 Ls outpost, 38 Ls planet
HIP 20890 Alert 48% *49.3% — Indra 22 Ly, 1609 Ls outpost, 6876 Ls planet
Jeng Alert 32% *32.5% — Oya 23 Ly, 2195 Ls outpost
Borderline:
Jementi Alert 30% *31.6% — Leigong 25 Ly, 227k Ls outpost, 1172 Ls planet
Trailing:
HIP 20491 Alert 20% *20.9% — Indra 23 Ly, 3197 Ls planet

Eviction:
Omumba Control 16% *18% — Hadad 14 Ly, ~22.7k strength

Clean-up:
68 Tauri Control 98% — Indra 26 Ly, empty, 9 strength
Ceti Sector ZE-A c14 Control 22% — Leigong 35 Ly, empty, 238 strength

 

[Starsong]

Update on Omumba - we've got 7,939 samples stockpiled so far.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

Victories in HIP 29596 and 68 Tauri! After (but not necessarily due to) having mentioned its trailing position, HIP 20491 received a heavy boost and left it short probably one or two Orthrus kills, so it is very likely to be complete within an hour.

Beyond that, the remaining Alerts now look like this, with Jementi (or equally Jeng in its place) projecting only a few percent short:
Unktety Alert 80% *81.7% — Thor 25 Ly, 92 Ls outpost, 38 Ls planet
HIP 20890 Alert 58% *58.2% — Indra 22 Ly, 1609 Ls outpost, 6876 Ls planet
Jeng Alert 38% — Oya 23 Ly, 2195 Ls outpost
Borderline:
Jementi Alert 36% — Leigong 25 Ly, 227k Ls outpost, 1172 Ls planet

Update on Omumba - we've got 7,939 samples stockpiled so far.

I have just been catching up on this operation and merging the details and that update; thank you! At present I have our harvest equipment parked around the other side of M. Cocijo for a bit more clean-up, but Omumba can be its destination after that.

 

[Starsong]

I have just been catching up on this operation and merging the details and that update; thank you! At present I have our harvest equipment parked around the other side of M. Cocijo for a bit more clean-up, but Omumba can be its destination after that.

Any help at Omumba would be very much appreciated! Whilst it is a worthwhile target because of the amount of effort it's regularly eating, the sheer amount of samples required means that the more people involved the better.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

Victories in HIPs 29596, 20491, 20890 and 39409, 68 Tauri, Unktety, Col 285 Sectors PM-J b10-1, PM-J b10-3, PM-J b10-4, VY-Q c5-2, VY-Q c5-22 and VY-Q c5-23, and Arietis Sectors KM-W c1-14, KM-W c1-15, WJ-R b4-2, WJ-R b4-3 and WJ-R b4-4!

Alerts at 08:30 16th August 3309, Wednesday caution:
Jementi Alert 80% *81.2% — Leigong 25 Ly, 227k Ls outpost, 1172 Ls planet
Jeng Alert 50% — Oya 23 Ly, 2195 Ls outpost

Clean-up:
Ceti Sector ZE-A c14 Control 30% *30.8% — Leigong 35 Ly, empty, 211 strength

 

[Grimscrub]

Just to keep up to date - 11,025 gathered, 4,344 left in the buy order before/955 in open storage before bulk transfer to logi carrier.

Probably a bit of a silly way to do it but, didn't want to ask for someone else to throw money into it as Well as borrowing their carrier for however long.
plus lets me check how much of the total is for the right system and all.


Far as help I'd say, see how you're doing - especially after op redacted, and if anywhere takes priority for your efforts.
Quite welcome but no obligation, same as I'd say to the folk our side... don't want anyone pushing themselves to burnout for any given target of the day.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

Far as help I'd say, see how you're doing - especially after op redacted, and if anywhere takes priority for your efforts.
Quite welcome but no obligation, same as I'd say to the folk our side... don't want anyone pushing themselves to burnout for any given target of the day.

Thank you for the kind consideration! We have a background goal of shrinking the Thor and Cocijo regions to become more as M. Hadad is now, for which we have nine and thirteen evictions this week respectively, though I think it will be quite fine to help a promising harvest at Omumba. Recalling a few weeks ago:

I also would see Omumba recaptured eventually, and could provide assistance sooner if something like 4000–5000 would make the difference in completing it, but for the moment the feeling at INIV is that we have already over-spent at M. Hadad on clearing some 17–19 Ly systems there when M. Cocijo is as large as it is!

Very much as M. Cocijo is getting the attention I said it needed, Omumba also can get the support I said we could provide given a promising effort to recapture it!

As an aside, the outcome of Operation Redacted would have decided whether to push closer to a Maelstrom such as Hadad generally, but the new immovable attackers have made it quite clear that we are not allowed to do that (or rather, not allowed to achieve the resulting goal from doing that). We will keep its original schedule and discover said outcome regardless; it just means no proactive distance-closing unless Maelstrom systems cannot attack and the matrix sites are changed to become either passive or achievable!

 

[CMDR Vulkarius]

Thanks for the Strength notes added to the dev.iniv site, helped planning our corner.

Y'welcome!
It has a mental roadmap for a full planning system but for now it's more valuable to hack features in which help answer our/your/any recurring questions.
I was adding a thing to find carrier parking spots close to attackers and no asteroid belts - that got bumped for the barnacle sites last week and preparing some stuff for ECM later this week.

About those sites - it now shows if a site is blocking the system, if the system should be OK (hover mouse for reason) or if it's "unknown".
For now the OKs are the systems without atmosphere landfalls or with progress seen since the update.
Most/all unknowns probably have been checked by somebody at some point but we seem to lack an opposite list of OK reports!

INTRA shows 96 unknown systems at the moment (controlled + unpop + atmo landfall + no progress).
Super long shot here, if anyone feels like jumping around to pop some scouts and check back later to ping EDDN, these are the systems-

Spoiler: Unknown systems list

name​	mname​	mdist​
Col 285 Sector US-Z b14-6​	Hadad​	7.6235​
Col 285 Sector US-Z b14-5​	Hadad​	9.9792​
Col 285 Sector QM-B b14-5​	Hadad​	11.6436​
Col 285 Sector PM-B b14-0​	Hadad​	12.1128​
Col 285 Sector QM-B b14-4​	Hadad​	12.4206​
Col 285 Sector WN-Z b14-0​	Hadad​	15.8822​
Col 285 Sector PM-B b14-6​	Hadad​	16.2281​
Col 285 Sector US-Z b14-1​	Hadad​	17.3457​
Col 285 Sector RM-B b14-3​	Hadad​	17.6258​
Col 285 Sector PM-B b14-2​	Hadad​	18.7408​
Col 285 Sector SH-B b14-6​	Hadad​	19.5893​
Col 285 Sector KW-M c7-28​	Hadad​	22.1577​
Col 285 Sector SH-B b14-3​	Hadad​	24.3202​
Col 285 Sector XY-F b12-3​	Cocijo​	6.7089​
Col 285 Sector OS-T d3-126​	Cocijo​	13.8162​
Col 285 Sector VY-Q c5-15​	Cocijo​	14.4278​
Col 285 Sector VY-Q c5-10​	Cocijo​	14.9676​
Col 285 Sector VY-Q c5-17​	Cocijo​	15.9641​
Col 285 Sector VY-Q c5-11​	Cocijo​	16.0072​
Col 285 Sector ZT-F b12-2​	Cocijo​	21.7597​
Col 285 Sector TS-H b11-0​	Cocijo​	22.5509​
Col 285 Sector AF-P c6-0​	Cocijo​	22.8197​
Col 285 Sector XT-Q c5-1​	Cocijo​	22.8881​
Col 285 Sector XY-F b12-6​	Cocijo​	23.1500​
HIP 39750​	Cocijo​	24.6837​
Col 285 Sector VN-H b11-0​	Cocijo​	25.0377​
Col 285 Sector AF-P c6-1​	Cocijo​	25.1414​
Col 285 Sector TS-H b11-3​	Cocijo​	26.5814​
Col 285 Sector ZT-F b12-6​	Cocijo​	26.6970​
Col 285 Sector AF-P c6-2​	Cocijo​	27.4567​
Col 285 Sector ZT-F b12-7​	Cocijo​	27.8300​
Col 285 Sector PS-T d3-152​	Cocijo​	29.5174​
Col 285 Sector US-H b11-1​	Cocijo​	30.1173​
Col 285 Sector XI-H b11-2​	Cocijo​	30.3841​
Col 285 Sector IG-O c6-10​	Thor​	10.0847​
Col 285 Sector NG-E b12-2​	Thor​	17.5960​
HIP 19046​	Thor​	18.2258​
Col 285 Sector JA-G b11-0​	Thor​	20.9238​
Col 285 Sector EA-Q c5-3​	Thor​	23.4225​
Col 285 Sector EA-Q c5-7​	Thor​	23.7560​
Col 285 Sector EA-Q c5-4​	Thor​	27.3070​
Synuefe OU-D b45-0​	Thor​	30.3470​
Synuefe OU-D b45-1​	Thor​	31.1088​
HIP 17310​	Thor​	33.0671​
Hyades Sector JH-V c2-13​	Indra​	18.5938​
Arietis Sector JR-V b2-1​	Indra​	22.1120​
Ross 378​	Indra​	22.3028​
Arietis Sector TY-P a6-1​	Indra​	23.2825​
Arietis Sector FL-X b1-0​	Indra​	23.4313​
HIP 19789​	Indra​	23.9389​
Hyades Sector ST-Q b5-2​	Indra​	23.9603​
Arietis Sector HG-X b1-4​	Indra​	24.2940​
Arietis Sector DQ-Y c9​	Indra​	24.5941​
HIP 21788​	Indra​	24.6933​
Arietis Sector DA-Z b3​	Indra​	25.4370​
Arietis Sector FL-X b1-1​	Indra​	25.6097​
Hyades Sector IM-V c2-11​	Indra​	25.8413​
Arietis Sector NS-R a5-1​	Indra​	26.0062​
Hyades Sector JH-U b3-5​	Indra​	26.1352​
Hyades Sector AR-J a10-1​	Indra​	26.5415​
Hyades Sector EX-H a11-1​	Indra​	27.0417​
Arietis Sector NS-R a5-0​	Indra​	27.4150​
Hyades Sector XU-O b6-1​	Indra​	29.8115​
Hyades Sector KN-K b8-2​	Leigong​	11.9289​
Arietis Sector XJ-R b4-0​	Leigong​	14.4584​
HIP 10118​	Leigong​	15.1029​
Hyades Sector KN-K b8-1​	Leigong​	15.8547​
HIP 9643​	Leigong​	15.9134​
Arietis Sector JM-W d1-56​	Leigong​	18.2945​
Arietis Sector XJ-R b4-1​	Leigong​	18.4756​
Hyades Sector GH-M b7-2​	Leigong​	19.9219​
Hyades Sector FH-M b7-2​	Leigong​	21.1721​
Hyades Sector JN-K b8-2​	Leigong​	21.9576​
Hyades Sector MY-I b9-0​	Leigong​	22.6465​
Hyades Sector IN-K b8-0​	Leigong​	23.3331​
Hyades Sector LY-I b9-5​	Leigong​	24.3259​
HIP 6694​	Leigong​	25.1049​
Hyades Sector IN-K b8-1​	Leigong​	25.4235​
Hyades Sector IN-K b8-2​	Leigong​	28.5226​
Hyades Sector LY-I b9-4​	Leigong​	28.9148​
Col 285 Sector DG-O c6-12​	Leigong​	30.0776​
Col 285 Sector FB-E b12-1​	Leigong​	31.7521​
Cephei Sector WO-A b3​	Oya​	8.5166​
Pegasi Sector IH-U b3-1​	Raijin​	3.4710​
Pegasi Sector IH-U b3-7​	Raijin​	6.0070​
Pegasi Sector JH-U b3-3​	Raijin​	9.1268​
Pegasi Sector IH-U b3-6​	Raijin​	10.0405​
Pegasi Sector JH-V c2-22​	Raijin​	11.1131​
Pegasi Sector IH-U b3-5​	Raijin​	12.0200​
Pegasi Sector OI-S b4-0​	Raijin​	19.8204​
Pegasi Sector RE-N a8-0​	Raijin​	21.2141​
HIP 112219​	Raijin​	24.3269​
Pegasi Sector OI-S b4-8​	Raijin​	26.1941​
Pegasi Sector LY-O a7-3​	Raijin​	26.2650​
Pegasi Sector OE-N a8-1​	Raijin​	26.8778​
Pegasi Sector TK-L a9-3​	Raijin​	27.3772​

 

[Aleks Zuno]

Victories in Jeng and Jementi! That ends all Alerts, and likely the weekly cycle also, short of any more clean-up rounds of course. There is one slightly softened clean-up target at Ceti Sector ZE-A c14 with 190 strength remaining.

The main eviction front looks like this:
Omumba Control 30% — Hadad 14 Ly, 19.4k strength
HIP 20616 Control 10% — Indra 22 Ly, 2962 strength
HIP 21946 Control 8% *8.2% — Indra 24 Ly, 1918 strength

This may raise an interesting tactical option for the harvest at Omumba; insofar as the existing activity has almost reached the 33% surplus threshold and may well do so tonight, it could be as well just to deliver today any harvest amount which approaches the strength remainder. Unlikely are both the possible advantage of ending it sooner and the possible disadvantage of committing to complete it next week, but the option is there if a @Grimscrub chooses to take it.

We will join the operation in a moment!

 

[Starsong]

Victories in Jeng and Jementi! That ends all Alerts, and likely the weekly cycle also, short of any more clean-up rounds of course. There is one slightly softened clean-up target at Ceti Sector ZE-A c14 with 190 strength remaining.

The main eviction front looks like this:
Omumba Control 30% — Hadad 14 Ly, 19.4k strength
HIP 20616 Control 10% — Indra 22 Ly, 2962 strength
HIP 21946 Control 8% *8.2% — Indra 24 Ly, 1918 strength

This may raise an interesting tactical option for the harvest at Omumba; insofar as the existing activity has almost reached the 33% surplus threshold and may well do so tonight, it could be as well just to deliver today any harvest amount which approaches the strength remainder. Unlikely are both the possible advantage of ending it sooner and the possible disadvantage of committing to complete it next week, but the option is there if a @Grimscrub chooses to take it.

We will join the operation in a moment!

It is worth noting that there is a larger advantage - since the week Omumba reached 50% independent of us shows a lot of support who left after not being able to clear the system, a large progress spike may incentivise many of them to return!